Proper Grip for Auto-Pistols - James Yeager

[rhino]

There are several "correct" or "proper" ways to grip a handgun, i.e. those that work well, as opposed to the unlimited number of grips that either kinda work for some people or don't work at all.

There are some common factors among all of the grips that work.

• Web of the master hand goes as high into the backstrap/tang of the pistol's grip as possible
• Ideally the slide, wrist, and bones of the forearms will be aligned (which may not always be possible)
• Maximum contact between hands and the gun's frame
• Simple & consistent

Curiously (well, not really), all of the grips that actually work well developed through action/practical shooting competition. When the goal is to win, the mechanics are chosen based on what works the best. The competition is the laboratory where the experiments are conducted and then the results spread to other applications.

 

[Coach]

There are several "correct" or "proper" ways to grip a handgun, i.e. those that work well, as opposed to the unlimited number of grips that either kinda work for some people or don't work at all.



There are some common factors among all of the grips that work.

• Web of the master hand goes as high into the backstrap/tang of the pistol's grip as possible
• Ideally the slide, wrist, and bones of the forearms will be aligned (which may not always be possible)
• Maximum contact between hands and the gun's frame
• Simple & consistent

Curiously (well, not really), all of the grips that actually work well developed through action/practical shooting competition. When the goal is to win, the mechanics are chosen based on what works the best. The competition is the laboratory where the experiments are conducted and then the results spread to other applications.

But .... Competition will get you killed.

But .... Competition is not tactical.


But .... Competition is not where the real shooters hang out.


But .... Competition is a game.

I love sarcasm.

 

[slow1911s]

Competition Grips

 

[bwframe]

A wannabe competition grip:

 

[Fenway]

Bad inside joke? Sorry you don't like the hat sccrmom.

INGO Tactical is the gear store of INGunOwners.com http://www.ingotactical.com (to be launched soon)

Yes, including INGO Tactical! WTF does that mean anyways!? It's almost like a bad inside joke or something.

 

[notasccrmom]

Bad inside joke? Sorry you don't like the hat sccrmom.

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Would GlockTalk Tactical make sense? What is so tactical about a forum? I understand that it's probably more about the selling than the product itself and all, but shouldn't it at least make sense?

 

[shooter521]

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Sure it does. Many folks associate the word "tactical" with "gear".

I think the hat itself did start start as kind of an inside joke; since it was tan with black letters, it was more "tactical" than the previous INGO hats with the full-color logo.

My

 

[notasccrmom]

The reason I mentioned inside joke, is because it is so rediculous to put INGO and Tactical together like that. It's like you're trying to make fun of the mall ninja's by putting tactical on something that doesn't make sense. Apparently, it was a serious attempt at a cool hat...

 

[shooter521]

Apparently, it was a serious attempt at a cool hat...

No, it IS a cool hat.

it is so rediculous to put INGO and Tactical together like that.

Why? A pretty good segment of our membership is interested primarily in "tactical" or defensive shooting and training, as opposed to hunting or sport/game/recreational shooting. IMO, the hat is a way of expressing that interest. If you don't share the interest or don't like the hat, don't buy one, but there's no need to run Fenway down for coming up with new and fun ways to represent our pride.

End of

I now leave you to return you to your previous discussion of shooting grip and Yeager hate.

 

[fg12351]

Thanks Fenway!

+1 This video and the discussion that followed made me realize I don't have my grip hand high enough of the gun and I had my thumbs down to far. My weak hand thumb was not against the gun but was on top of the other. My last range trip showed a BIG improvement in accuracy with the new grip. I still have a long way to go but it really helped!

Thanks guys!

 

[Fenway]

Apparently you simply have a problem with the hat. I had 155 of the INGO Tactical hats made and they sold out in 3 days. If you are to cool for the hat I apologize. Consider finding a cooler forum with cooler hats or maybe just keeping your comments to yourself if you don't like them.

INGO Tactical is the GEAR STORE of the forum INGUNOWNERS.COM

Apparently, it was a serious attempt at a cool hat...

 

[notasccrmom]

Apparently you simply have a problem with the hat. I had 155 of the INGO Tactical hats made and they sold out in 3 days. If you are to cool for the hat I apologize. Consider finding a cooler forum with cooler hats or maybe just keeping your comments to yourself if you don't like them.

INGO Tactical is the GEAR STORE of the forum INGUNOWNERS.COM

I don't have a problem with the hat, it didn't kill my dog or anything. I just think it's cheesy as hell. I've been wondering about it for a while now, and the opportunity arose to bring it up.

For the record: There are others that agree with me. I'm not just out to be a dick.

Most people don't embrace or readily admit to being a gear queer, but if that's what floats your boat...

 

[Coach]

 

[Boilers]

I personally like the plain jane INGO, without tactical on it.
More of an insider thing, and not so outwardly broadcasting.

 

[rvb]

There are some common factors among all of the grips that work.

• Web of the master hand goes as high into the backstrap/tang of the pistol's grip as possible

I think "as high as possible" gets some people in trouble, too. Especially with trigger control. I would say "as high as possible that allows good trigger control and doesn't interfer with any controls." I've seen a lot of people worried more about getting a high grip than a grip that allows them to work the trigger straight back, which is the first priority.

• Ideally the slide, wrist, and bones of the forearms will be aligned (which may not always be possible)

I don't see how this is possible with a modern two-handed ISO? SHO/WHO I do come close to it. I'd like to note that it is not important to keep the gun perfectly vertical when shooting one handed, either. Tilt the gun to your eye, don't distort your arm and your head to get your eye to the gun.

• Maximum contact between hands and the gun's frame

Agreed

• Simple & consistent

The modern "high thumbs" grip is not what most would call "simple." It's very weird and un-natural to people not used to it. But it does allow for good consistency and a high grip. Once most shooters work through the pain of learning it(sometimes literally as tendons and muscles get used/stretched that we don't usually use), they see the benefits.

Curiously (well, not really), all of the grips that actually work well developed through action/practical shooting competition.

Agreed.

I would add a couple of my thoughts...
That a good grip should be "neutral" in that neither hand is trying to point the gun, but is rather just holding the gun. Trying to stear the gun with the grip will most likely cause the gun to move when the sear releases (poor accuracy) and will not allow for consistent recoil... which leads to...

recoil control is not the end-all of a good grip. It's more important that the sight tracks consistently and returns to the target and notch consistently. You'll never completely stop recoil.... but you can control it!

While a grip should be firm, it can't be tense. Too tense and the arms/wrists loose their ability to absorbe recoil. I grip the hell out of my guns, but I try to keep my shoulders and arms as relaxed as possible.

-rvb

ps. This has to be one of the most topics in a single thread I've ever seen. My contribution: I'm wearing white socks. Thoughts?

-rvb

 

[JR50]

OK, I felt the need to post!

 

[Coach]

I think white socks are the way to go.

 

[notasccrmom]

I'm actually wearing black socks at the moment.

 

[rhino]

Yeah, I've got some thoughts.

Only sissies wear white socks. Oh, wait . . . I wear white socks. But I'm not wearing any right now, so I'm good.

Thanks for the caveats and clarifications you added to my contribution. The point about getting too high flew under my radar until you mentioned it because the guns that are in my mental pictures won't really allow that (like 1911s or anything else with a beavertail-like protruberance). I can see how it could happen with a SIG or a Beretta, but what kind of maniac tries to shoot a Beretta?

I should have been more specific with the wrist in line with the forearm thing. What I was thinking (and not what I typed) is that should help dictate the orientation of the gun in your hand when you first get your master grip (and before the support hand comes into play) so that the gun will recoil into the palm and not against the thumb. Agreed that when the other hand is in contact, the wrist will cant both inward and downward (for most people) when the gun is at eye level. I was referring to how to get the first hand on there. Some will obviously need to alter that if they can't reach the trigger. For instance, if I tried to shoot your Beretter, I'd have to rotate the gun a significant amount in my hand just to reach the trigger, and it's going to be recoiling against the thumb on my right hand.

When you refer to steering below, are you referring to actually steering with your wrists, or someone actually trying to use little movements of the hands themselves to change the point of aim of the gun?

As far as recoil control vs. the sights tracking consistently ... aren't they on a fundamental level the same thing? When I say that, I should also add that when I say "recoil control," I'm not talking about trying to keep the gun from moving at all (no one can do that), but instead managing the natual motions of the gun so that your sights track in a consistent manner. Maybe it's a semantics issue.

As far as simple goes, after seeing some of the weird things I've seen in the last 15-16 years, I'll stick by the grip featured most prominently in this topic as "simple." It's not necessarily easy to do, but it's simple. Simple is not the same thing as "intuitive" or "instinctive" either. I'm using it in the sense that there are minimal complications. And I'm also assuming you're referring to the grip with the thumbs forward when you say "high thumbs." Again, we have a semantics issue because I just returned from a weekend with DTI/John Farnam and they stick both thumbs upward/vertically, which also can work quite well.

If you want "not simple," try the grip that Massad Ayoob advocates. It works, but you have to grip the crap out of the gun in order to get it to work well. He calls that a "crush grip." I'm not saying it's "wrong," but it's not something I'm going to try to spread.

I would add a couple of my thoughts...
That a good grip should be "neutral" in that neither hand is trying to point the gun, but is rather just holding the gun. Trying to stear the gun with the grip will most likely cause the gun to move when the sear releases (poor accuracy) and will not allow for consistent recoil... which leads to...

recoil control is not the end-all of a good grip. It's more important that the sight tracks consistently and returns to the target and notch consistently. You'll never completely stop recoil.... but you can control it!

While a grip should be firm, it can't be tense. Too tense and the arms/wrists loose their ability to absorbe recoil. I grip the hell out of my guns, but I try to keep my shoulders and arms as relaxed as possible.

-rvb

ps. This has to be one of the most topics in a single thread I've ever seen. My contribution: I'm wearing white socks. Thoughts?

-rvb

 

[5shot]

Here's me driving an airsoft gun like a fly buzzing around at dinner time. I just grab the gun-n-point-n-pull. What grip what trigger control? Turn you sound up and you will hear the "wonks" that identify a hit.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRcK4WJMl5c"]YouTube - Point Shooting at Aerials[/ame]

I am not a professional/competitor/gunslinger. That I am sure is obvious.

And here's me at the range. - TURN YOUR SOUND DOWN SOME!!!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3INYchmup8o"]YouTube - Point Shooting - One Handed[/ame]

If your interested in learning more about the aerial shooting: AIMED Point Shooting or P&S