Virginia delegates bus ride,rule 16,12,and 40 pass.

[smokingman]

This thread mentions Ron Paul,but the rules changed and replaced effect all future state GOP nominations of delegates.It is not a Ron Paul thread.The changes made at the RNC convention in short let the Republican national committee choose the presidential candidate,and then that candidate chooses delegates from the states for the national convention.It is the opposite of how it has worked in the past,and should **** off every Republican because you no longer have a voice of any kind in the presidential nominee the party chooses.

In short rule 16 lets the republican leadership remove and replace any delegate that does not vote for the candidate the party chooses.

"This takes us away from state sovereignty," said Colorado delegate Florence Sebern. "It takes us away from local control in our states. And it moves us towards, as a Republican Party, central control and top-down decisions. That's what this is."

Julianne Thompson, a national Romney delegate and a Georgia State Coordinator for the Tea Party Patriots, wrote an open letter to RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and members of the Rules Committee.
"With your current attempt at this rules change, you are essentially striking the first blow that chips away at that freedom, and you disenfranchise the very people that turned the tide for the GOP in 2010 by returning power in the U.S. House of Representatives to Republicans,"

Rule 12 changes allow for party rules to be changed at any time,in between or at conventions.This rule was important because with out it Ron Paul had the 5 states he needed to be on the ballet.With the rule change they could immediately change rule 40 at the same time requiring 8 states to be on the ballet,and they did.
*Editing to remove a video of Delegates from Nevada trying to nominate Paul from the floor,it has been taken off of youtube.

Delegates from Nevada tried to nominate Mr. Paul from the floor, submitting petitions from their own state as well as Minnesota, Maine, Iowa, Oregon, Alaska and the Virgin Islands. That should have done the trick: Rules require signatures from just five states. But the party changed the rules on the spot. Henceforth, delegates must gather petitions from eight states.
Ron Paul Supporters Revolt in Tampa - NYTimes.com

The main delegates bus ride was also important as they led the charge against the rules changes in the rules committee.The republican party leadership decided to take them for a "ride" during the meeting so the rules could not be questioned.
Meanwhile, some committee members suggested meddling was at play. A bus full of Virginia delegates arrived at the committee meeting - after it had adjourned.
"The bus that was supposed to pick up the Virginia delegation arrived an hour later than it was supposed to," explained Virginia delegate Morton Blackwell, a prime opponent of Rule 16.
Blackwell continued: "And then when we went downtown, we went around the same series of blocks repeatedly – twice. And then the bus took out away from downtown, went about a mile and a half, and then did a u-turn and came back. And did another circuit, of the same place where we had been before. And at that point, the Virginia delegates demanded, 'Stop the bus. And we're going to walk.' And we did."


Mike Rothfeld, a Virginia delegate also on the bus, went further.
"They pushed us around for 45 minutes and then we missed the meeting," Rothfeld said.
"We were in the security perimeter, they pushed us out of it three separate times. They moved us around until the meeting was adjourned."
Sebern claimed the snafu was "deliberate."


Rules fight sparks drama at RNC – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs



This bus ride was the reason for this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I3cI6D3a6Y&feature=player_embedded

*edited to add video from later in the thread from Fox news 19.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35OXo9SSj5I&feature=player_embedded


Clear now?

 

[lashicoN]

 

[rambone]

Looks like the party is really being steered in the right direction.

 

[hornadylnl]

One of our resident Romney supporters just told us libertarians that becoming a delegate is the way to change the direction of the party. Surely he wasn't being misleading was he? Or does he truly believe what he posted?

 

[rambone]

The loyal lapdogs usually don't have any trouble getting appointed to be a State Delegate. They're not interested in things like party reform, open nominations, or opposing the Establishment's candidates.

 

[LEaSH]

Burn GOP, burn.

 

[buckstopshere]

This is representative of how they will govern IMO. Freedom be damned, we gave the people what they wanted, anyone but Obama.

I know I'm in the minority here but I really think Romney is going to win. The GOP trifecta of the House, Senate and Oval Office was arguably more destructive to personal freedom than the Liberal trifecta.

 

[LEaSH]

This is representative of how they will govern IMO. Freedom be damned, we gave the people what they wanted, anyone but Obama.

I know I'm in the minority here but I really think Romney is going to win. The GOP trifecta of the House, Senate and Oval Office was arguably more destructive to personal freedom than the Liberal trifecta.

Hmm really? Are you going on instinct or have that feeling?

My gut says it will be close, and some serious allegations of vote fraud (brushed off by the MSM of course), and 4 more years of ****head. Just my gut, but I've been accurate (and disappointed) since '92.

 

[buckstopshere]

Hmm really? Are you going on instinct or have that feeling?

My gut says it will be close, and some serious allegations of vote fraud (brushed off by the MSM of course), and 4 more years of ****head. Just my gut, but I've been accurate (and disappointed) since '92.

It's really based on conversations I've had with literally hundreds of people in other states, specifically battle ground states like Ohio and Wisconsin. that coupled with just a gut feeling. I could definitely be wrong although I haven't guessed wrong yet but that's really meaningless.

Voter fraud could be rampant in this election for sure. Based on the actions of both parties from the dems in 2008 to this years GOP primaries, which group will be better at conducting the fraud? Not sure who wins that one.

 

[LEaSH]

It's really based on conversations I've had with literally hundreds of people in other states, specifically battle ground states like Ohio and Wisconsin. that coupled with just a gut feeling. I could definitely be wrong although I haven't guessed wrong yet but that's really meaningless.

Voter fraud could be rampant in this election for sure. Based on the actions of both parties from the dems in 2008 to this years GOP primaries, which group will be better at conducting the fraud? Not sure who wins that one.

The left has the MSM on its side. They will definitely be using their finely honed fraud skills.

The GOP just seems so dumb and clumsy when it comes to the underhanded ways of fraud. The media will light up any incident that they can find that involves Republican fraud.

 

[blamecharles]

Cant we just get Dave Ramsey to be President?

I am so sick both parties.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Funny thing, in the 2008 primary, I found it to be an unbelievable abuse in a supposedly free election that the Democrats had fashioned their rules to include enough voting 'super-delegates (hand-picked establishment party hacks) to nullify the votes of the people who voted in the primary. Much as I thought I had seen the bottom, it seems that the GOP has outdone the Democrats in malfeasance by an order of magnitude.

 

[jblomenberg16]

All I can say is wow. If this proves true, and if there was any doubt before about actual "representation" of the people for a candidate "nominated" by the people, this clearly supports what we learned in 2008 : that we really have no control of the situation and liberty is lost.

 

[IndyDave1776]

All I can say is wow. If this proves true, and if there was any doubt before about actual "representation" of the people for a candidate "nominated" by the people, this clearly supports what we learned in 2008 : that we really have no control of the situation and liberty is lost.

Exactly. No control over our own destiny, only the illusion thereof presented in form of bad theater.

 

[smokingman]

All I can say is wow. If this proves true, and if there was any doubt before about actual "representation" of the people for a candidate "nominated" by the people, this clearly supports what we learned in 2008 : that we really have no control of the situation and liberty is lost.

Ginsberg, who has worked with and for every GOP president and campaign since Bush One -- and who is a central figure in the GOP's D.C.-based establishment -- tried to push through a rule giving party leaders the power to pick (or replace) delegates representing candidates, and even the party's nominee, before the convention. The move misjudged the mood and background of many of the people here. "It was tyranny at its best," said Bob Ide, a delegate from Idaho. "They should have run these guys off the stage."
But many other delegates -- especially the large contingent from Texas -- were irate as well. I sat with the delegation Tuesday night and they were all glad to join with Paul on the matter.
The "compromise" got rid of the delegate-replacement language, but kept other features that will reduce the power of state and local party officials. That's the place where Paul -- and any other anti-establishment and Tea Party types -- can work their will.
"All we want is to make sure that the popular vote in a primary is what controls the outcome in delegates," Ginsberg told me.
But the result will make state and local conventions irrelevant. And soon enough, the big convention will be irrelevant, too.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/29/mitt-romney-gop-convention-rule-change_n_1841581.html


http://www.texasgopvote.com/knowledge-topics/2012-republican-primary/rules-committee-controversy-kicks-gop-convention-who-gets-choose-delegates


Quick points:

• This top-down control of the party approach belongs on the left side of the aisle. We Republicans are grassroots people now more than ever. Clearly we want to choose our delegates using the process that has served us well.
• This new rule allows more control of the party by wealthy or influential donors, who could easily condition donations on receiving a delegate slot.
• This policy is better than the one the top-down elites started out asking for, which was that party leaders would just choose our delegates for us, or else provide a list of “approved” potential delegates we could choose from among. Doesn’t that sound a little too similar to the old Soviet “free” elections where the people could “vote” on the list of candidates the government had already chosen?
• The rule that passed the Rules Committee was a compromise, rejecting the above approach but failing to hold fast to the present approach of letting the people choose. The status under the new rule that just passed is that the people choose delegates but the nominee can “disavow” them.

One Nevada delegate and Paul supporter, Mark Carducci, thrust two middle fingers into the air toward RNC Chairman Reince Priebus and House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio), screaming "**** you, tyrants!" (That's him in the above picture.)


Following the dustup, Yelena Vorobyov (pictured below), a 30-year-old Paul delegate from Apple Valley, Minnesota, was eager to vent. Barely taking a breath, she said: "This is just evidence of the manipulation of the Republican Party. They're not even allowing us to bring signs in, but they brought in their own [pro-Romney] signs. We couldn't nominate Ron Paul. The 'no' for not passing the rules was louder than the 'aye' and they ruled in favor of the rules. They're cheating. The Republican National Committee is not transparent and does not have integrity. They stole votes. They stole delegates. They refused to send buses for our delegates. It's a totalitarian process. This is not democracy. It's a really sad day for us. I've worked for Republican candidates since I was 16. We believed the Republican Party had more integrity. Boy, did they prove us wrong."

GOP To Change Rules For 2016 Primaries And Beyond
If Romney wins in November, another significant change passed here Friday give him dramatically more power to shape the primary calendar and apportionment of delegates going into 2016. Historically only the convention rules committee, which meets just once every four years, can officially change party rules. But going forward, the Republican National Committee — a group of 168 elected representatives from the states and territories — can change party rules with a three-fourths vote at any time.

The rule changes also include provisions that give Presidential campaigns more control over the selection of delegates at the state level, thus eliminating to some extent the risk that a delegate that is supposed to be bound to one candidate will rebel and back another candidate. Obviously, the impact of these rule changes will be somewhat muted if Romney is elected President since, in all likelihood, he’ll be running for re-election without any serious opposition in 2016. Nonetheless, the changes are significant.

http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insi...s-push-for-a-gop-floor-fight-over-2016-rules/
Which brings us back to the rule change up for approval by the convention on Tuesday, which — in 2016 — would give the Republican nominee the power to vet delegates to the national convention. In other words, the rule change would allow the nominee to pick those who will pick him/her.
“We’re asking activists to talk to every state party leader. The worry here is that you’re flipping the whole process on its head. It used to be that the grassroots chose the delegates, and the delegates choose the candidates. They’re essentially creating a rule where the candidate can disavow any delegate that doesn’t toe the line,” Kibbe said.


here’s a letter that Julianne Thompson, a Romney delegate from Georgia, has fired off to Reince Priebus and the Republican National Committee this afternoon . You can read the entire letter at the link above,I have edited it for length and to make my point.
"I would like to hope that our nominee is unaware of the skullduggery that occurred with regard to this attempt at shutting out the people that have unified to help him win in November. The audacity of creating a firestorm when there is an opportunity for unity and peace that is needed to win back the Senate and take back the White House is irresponsible and I seriously question the motives of those behind this attempt.
Why the change in rules? That is the million-dollar question, and it is fairly easy to answer. There are still those in place in the GOP and on campaigns that would like to use the delegate and alternate seats as rewards for donating large checks to campaigns and the RNC.
If your desire is to win elections, then I strongly suggest that you engage the grassroots and show respect to those who help put you in power."

It is true.

 

[smokingman]

Just some more links.
GOP Rules Committee Rapidly Moving to Shut Out Grassroots at 2:00 p.m. Today | RedState

GOP Establishment Tries to Change Delegate Rules to Marginalize Conservatives - The Rush Limbaugh Show

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/08/gop-rules-change-update-victory-or-farce/

GOP rule changes anger some Colorado delegates - The Denver Post

A Letter from Morton Blackwell to RNC Delegates | Republican Liberty Caucus (very established GOP member against the new rules).
Handing national party officials the power to change national party rules adopted by state and grassroots leaders at the Republican National Convention. For generations, the prohibition of manipulated changes in the national Rules of the Republican Party between national conventions has served as one of the crown jewels of our party. It’s a power grab which opens the door to many future power grabs. *** Stripping state parties in all states with binding primaries of the power of choosing who will represent their states as national delegates and alternate delegates.
This outrageous change would empower presidential campaigns to disapprove and remove delegates and alternate delegates selected by rules adopted by state Republican parties. Rather than grassroots activists who won delegate and alternate delegate slots by following state party rules, a large majority of positions would be handed to top donors of the winning campaign.
*** Gutting the great and successful reform adopted in the current election cycle to stop the dangerous trend to front-load the selection of national convention delegates. Our party would move again toward a national primary which would deny grassroots Republicans the opportunity to vet presidential candidates in a nomination contest of reasonable length. This reform must not be abandoned.

 

[poptab]

After all the gerrymandering at state conventions, I expected no less at the national one.

 

[Zoub]

Has anybody here ever been to a meeting with more than 5 people? If so would you agree that more than 5 or 6 people at the table and the meeting will be guaranteed to:

A) go over 1 hour
B) produce little tangible results and and in fact the longer it goes the less results it produces
C) you will be more productive by skipping the meeting

With that in mind, I think we are way past trying to stuff 300 million plus people into just two parties. You can't even divide up a dozen people at a meeting into just two points of view. It is not in our nature to be like this.

We need at least 5, maybe 6 parties.

 

[smokingman]

GOP approves delegate rule changes over vocal objections - First Read

"Other conservatives -- including 2008 vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin -- had protested the move as a power play to shut out grassroots conservatives."

http://texasgopvote.com/issues/stop...rule-change-republican-convention-2012-004544
Evidence Shows RNC Rigged Vote on Rule Change at Republican Convention 2012?

• By David Bellow

Witnesses say that Teleprompter scrolled "the ayes have it" even before the voice vote was taken. Also, video of the rule change vote at the Republican National Convention shows that the vote seemed to be a toss up with no clear winner and yet the ayes were immediately declared winners. This declaration was drowned out by loud booing. Also, before John Boehner called for the vote, he asked if there were any objections and there were clearly people who objected and yet John Boehner said there were none.
Other witnesses say that they were purposely held up in the convention bus so that they would miss the vote in the rules committee. Also, news outlets reported that Romney had two of the rules committee delegates removed and replaced with delegates who would vote for the Romney Rule Changes. These committee delegates being held up and replaced prevented a minority report because there were not enough committee members.
More at the Texas GOP link...

 

[iwearcowboyboots]

GOP approves delegate rule changes over vocal objections - First Read

It's not their fault. The teleprompter made them do it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77W5OKStO5s