Would this be legal?

[trnsplntfrmohio]

I have a shotgun of my grandpas. It's a cheap H&R 12 guage pump with a 28" barrel.

Would it be legal if I cut it down to 17" and then WELDED A 1.5" flash hider on it?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I believe that the FINAL configuration would be legal...

But I do not know the technicalities of doing that work yourself.

-J-

 

[CountryBoy19]

Sounds legal to me, but one has to ask why? Oh wait, nevermind, I really don't care what you do with your guns, I was just wondering what you had in mind.

Just to be on the safe side, I would remove the barrel from the receiver, remove the receiver from your premises (leave it with a friend until the work is finished) then do the work. This way there is no possible way the barrel could be assembled onto the gun to make a SBS. And the ATF won't shoot your dog.



Another caution, I would document the whole process, start to finish. Showing that the barrel/shotgun began as a legal 18+" barreled shotgun. Let me explain why. Keep in mind that the ATF has always followed the rule of "once an SBR/SBS/machinegun always an SBR/SBS/machinegun". If you're ever seen with the shotgun someday by an overzealous ATF agent, they may think the shotgun was given to you in the short-barreled form and you welded that on to make it legal. They would probably try to claim that the shotgun was once in SBS form and therefore it is still SBS. Or they will claim that you possessed it before modify it into it's current status. Either way they may try to nail you with possession just because that's what they like to do. I know it is thin ground to stand-on and make a case, but crazier things have happened with the ATF. It would be really easy for you to avoid the entire ordeal by showing pictures that you cut the barrel then welded that on, and the entire time the barrel was shorter than 18" the receiver of the firearm was not present.

 

[indykid]

repost, sorry

 

[lonnie58]

Big brother is coming......

 

[CountryBoy19]

Big brother is coming......

Workin' towards 50?

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

Well I was originally looking to go 15.5" and then adding a 3" flash hider I found.

The flash hider was fairly bigger than the barrel So I don't think it would take it back to an 18" spray patter, though I doubt 3" is gonna make a noticeable difference.

But I'm thinking I may go tactical route with this thing. I just got a +4 extension for it today which takes my 3" buckshot rounds up to 9 + 1, which I think is plenty for a HD situation, or enough that I'd be able to get to the safe and retrieve the AR.


I found a pistol grip integrated into a buttstock with new handguard in tacticool black to match the rest of the weapon.

 

[IndianaGTI]

Pursuant to Indiana Law, you could be prosecuted for up to 5 years for the commission of a felony after you welded the part on to the barrel. You will be violating:

IC 35-47-5-4.1
Sawed-off shotgun
Sec. 4.1. (a) A person who:
(1) manufactures;
(2) causes to be manufactured;
(3) imports into Indiana;
(4) keeps for sale;
(5) offers or exposes for sale; or
(6) gives, lends, or possesses;
any sawed-off shotgun commits dealing in a sawed-off shotgun, a Class D felony.

That statute of limitation for the commission of a felony was 5 years the last time I checked. So you would be in possession of a sawed off shotgun and prosecutable for 5 years.

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

Good thing where I live sbs are not illegal for possession. i guess it just gets down to technicality if i manufactured a sbs in ohio and then welded the flash hider on and kept it in ohio. since, sawing off a shotgun is not illegal.

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

HMMM just read on another forum that as of 2009 in the NFA handbook a pinned/welded accessory does not legally bring the barrel up to length..

 

[firemedic140]

Depending on the gun, just buy an 18 " bbl. To be safe keeping the bbl. a legal length would be best. Call the ATF and ask.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Pursuant to Indiana Law, you could be prosecuted for up to 5 years for the commission of a felony after you welded the part on to the barrel. You will be violating:

IC 35-47-5-4.1
Sawed-off shotgun
Sec. 4.1. (a) A person who:
(1) manufactures;
(2) causes to be manufactured;
(3) imports into Indiana;
(4) keeps for sale;
(5) offers or exposes for sale; or
(6) gives, lends, or possesses;
any sawed-off shotgun commits dealing in a sawed-off shotgun, a Class D felony.

That statute of limitation for the commission of a felony was 5 years the last time I checked. So you would be in possession of a sawed off shotgun and prosecutable for 5 years.

How would he be in violation of that statute? He doesn't have a sawed off shotgun because the barrel would be longer than 18".

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

i don't believe this is legal because you are not licensed to perform this even though it is legal length theres some law about itsomewhere it's getting scary out there

WTF are you even talking about? You have no clue, and I predict that your 38 posts are going to quickly decrease in number very soon.

 

[CountryBoy19]

HMMM just read on another forum that as of 2009 in the NFA handbook a pinned/welded accessory does not legally bring the barrel up to length..

I hadn't heard this, I'm skeptical, but I'll do my research before weighing in on it.

Although if it's as you say then it doesn't apply to you. You said you were going to weld it on, this is referring to pinned & welded devices from the sounds of it. It's common to blind-pin a device then weld the pin in place. I think they're saying that's not acceptable (I haven't actually found where they said that yet). Welding should still be acceptable.

 

[Zoub]

HMMM just read on another forum that as of 2009 in the NFA handbook a pinned/welded accessory does not legally bring the barrel up to length..

You mean for shotgun, it is fine for rifles.

A FH is a joke on a shotgun anyway. Go watch trap being shot at night, even under lights, you will see it is a fail.

 

[lonnie58]

Workin' towards 50?

Yeah, slowly going at it. Buisness is slow so I have some time to jump over here.

All this legal crap makes my head spin.

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

You mean for shotgun, it is fine for rifles.

A FH is a joke on a shotgun anyway. Go watch trap being shot at night, even under lights, you will see it is a fail.

the flash hider was thinking about seemed much wider than the barrel, and thus the only reason to use it would bring it from 15" to 18" in length.

 

[IndianaGTI]

How would he be in violation of that statute? He doesn't have a sawed off shotgun because the barrel would be longer than 18".

He would first manufacture a sawed off shotgun by cutting the barrel which is illegal. Then he would be in possession of a sawed off shotgun which would be illegal. At some point, he would cease to be in possession of a sawed off a shotgun as long as the newly formed barrel meets NFA requirements. From the point that he ceases to be in possession of a sawed off shotgun, the State would have 5 years to prosecute him.

 

[CountryBoy19]

He would first manufacture a sawed off shotgun by cutting the barrel which is illegal. Then he would be in possession of a sawed off shotgun which would be illegal. At some point, he would cease to be in possession of a sawed off a shotgun as long as the newly formed barrel meets NFA requirements. From the point that he ceases to be in possession of a sawed off shotgun, the State would have 5 years to prosecute him.

No. It isn't a sawed off shotgun until it is assembled. If he removes the barrel from the receiver to cut it down, it's just a barrel, and as long as the barrel isn't installed back on the receiver before he welds the extension on then he hasn't made a sawed off shotgun. Arguably, simply possessing both parts (receiver and shortened barrel) would constitute constructive possession, hence my suggestion to remove the receiver from the premises while the modifications to the barrel are being performed.

 

[CountryBoy19]

HMMM just read on another forum that as of 2009 in the NFA handbook a pinned/welded accessory does not legally bring the barrel up to length..

Just found it, that is incorrect. You can still pin and weld a device on to get it up to the min length.

This comes straight out of the section pertaining to shotguns and SBS.

Permanent methods of
attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver
soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over.

 

[IndianaGTI]

No. It isn't a sawed off shotgun until it is assembled. If he removes the barrel from the receiver to cut it down, it's just a barrel, and as long as the barrel isn't installed back on the receiver before he welds the extension on then he hasn't made a sawed off shotgun. Arguably, simply possessing both parts (receiver and shortened barrel) would constitute constructive possession, hence my suggestion to remove the receiver from the premises while the modifications to the barrel are being performed.

The question was if he cut the barrel on his pump shotgun down to 17 inches. The answer is that it would be illegal. The question was not whether he could cut a barrel that was not attached to anything or how he could legally do it.