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Wolves in Indiana, Marion county Indianapolis?
- Thread starter Trevlan
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met eng gun nut
Plinker
technically if you can prove that the animal was a danger to yourself or your livestock you have a legal right to protect yourself. It has been defended in federal courts.
Coyotes kill for sustenance and survival, they do not kill for "blood sport" leaving their prey mauled and mutilated. That is the work of wild dogs or coy-dogs. Coy- dogs are not likely the offspring of a female coyote because they cull their litters for weak, sick, and "different" kits. Also, if the female can not nurture all of the kits, or if the number of her teats doesn't match the number of kits she will kill the lesser of the kits. The male coyotes will systematically kill any coy-dog offspring.
Males coyotes will mate with female domestic breeds as well as it may be possible for domestic males to breed with female coyotes, but the latter isn't as likely to happen because the males in the coyote local community will kill male dogs that intrude into their community. A community is made up of several families or clans. They live in fairly close proximity but do not coexist (eat, sleep and den) as do wolf packs. They do hunt together in semi-social way as I explain later.
We found a pregnant female Doberman in the woods that had been bred by a coyote. She had two offspring that closely resembled the coyote and had similar psychological traits and habits of a coyote. They grew to be 55 and 60 pounds when they were reached maturity.
Coyotes, wolves, and dogs are all members of the same family, canis, or the grey wolf family. Breeding between them would be within the breed, not interbreeding.
Coy-wolves are also possible. The red wolf after a study of its mitochondrial DNA has been scientifically determined to a grey wolf/coyote mix.
In Indiana, coyotes hunt in pairs and singularly at times. The hunt is called to order in the evening by the clan elders and the young are collected to their den families. They call out to each other much like wolves, identifying each clan that is part of the community. They also do this just before attaking domestic pets, especially dogs confined in a yard, remaining congegate.
When the hunt for food commences, individual hunting pairs disperse and spread out. The hunt continues through out the nighttime until the daylight morning hours, depending on the success of the individual pairs or singles. Sometimes the unsuccessful regroup at watering holes and restart their hunts in other areas. You can hear their "call to hunt" messages throughout the night, followed by long periods of silence, when the hunt is in progress.
A healthy coyote breeding pair can be responsible for up to 4000 other coyotes down stream in their breeding lifetimes. Other factors such as disease, accidents, droughts, floods, and natural demise due to conflicts with other species such as mountain lions and wolves reduce these numbers considerably, however the proliferation of the species in the last decade suggests they are still being very successful.
The things I have listed above are based on true, "boots and pants in the mud" logged, observations, over a period of forty years.
Incidentally, a number of years ago, I spotted a coyote in my front yard that had come around my garage. I suspected it was trying to catch one of our cats. It had in fact eaten all of the cats food. It stopped momentarily in the front yard and I noticed it had a collar on it. I thought is might be someone's "pet" so I didn't shoot it.
As an after thought, I wished I had shot it because it just seemed absolutely reckless for a person to have a coyote as a pet and allow it to run loose, given the knowledge I had of them. Several weeks later I saw it again and brought it down with my scoped 30-30 rifle at over 100 yards, in the woods.
It did indeed have a collar, with an identification tag on it from the Arizona Game and FishDepartment and a serial number. This was before radio collars and ID chips. The tag was pretty corroded but I called the number I thought I had made out on it, but the call could not be placed. I looked up their number through information and finally got through to them but was placed on hold. When someone answered, I was informed that the person in charge was out and would return my call, which I waited on for days, but it never happened.
That coyote had migrated all the way to Southern Indiana from Arizona. I felt kind of bad about killing an animal that had made such a noble and difficult journey across the country, a judgment call I would have made differently if I had known.
Males coyotes will mate with female domestic breeds as well as it may be possible for domestic males to breed with female coyotes, but the latter isn't as likely to happen because the males in the coyote local community will kill male dogs that intrude into their community. A community is made up of several families or clans. They live in fairly close proximity but do not coexist (eat, sleep and den) as do wolf packs. They do hunt together in semi-social way as I explain later.
We found a pregnant female Doberman in the woods that had been bred by a coyote. She had two offspring that closely resembled the coyote and had similar psychological traits and habits of a coyote. They grew to be 55 and 60 pounds when they were reached maturity.
Coyotes, wolves, and dogs are all members of the same family, canis, or the grey wolf family. Breeding between them would be within the breed, not interbreeding.
Coy-wolves are also possible. The red wolf after a study of its mitochondrial DNA has been scientifically determined to a grey wolf/coyote mix.
In Indiana, coyotes hunt in pairs and singularly at times. The hunt is called to order in the evening by the clan elders and the young are collected to their den families. They call out to each other much like wolves, identifying each clan that is part of the community. They also do this just before attaking domestic pets, especially dogs confined in a yard, remaining congegate.
When the hunt for food commences, individual hunting pairs disperse and spread out. The hunt continues through out the nighttime until the daylight morning hours, depending on the success of the individual pairs or singles. Sometimes the unsuccessful regroup at watering holes and restart their hunts in other areas. You can hear their "call to hunt" messages throughout the night, followed by long periods of silence, when the hunt is in progress.
A healthy coyote breeding pair can be responsible for up to 4000 other coyotes down stream in their breeding lifetimes. Other factors such as disease, accidents, droughts, floods, and natural demise due to conflicts with other species such as mountain lions and wolves reduce these numbers considerably, however the proliferation of the species in the last decade suggests they are still being very successful.
The things I have listed above are based on true, "boots and pants in the mud" logged, observations, over a period of forty years.
Incidentally, a number of years ago, I spotted a coyote in my front yard that had come around my garage. I suspected it was trying to catch one of our cats. It had in fact eaten all of the cats food. It stopped momentarily in the front yard and I noticed it had a collar on it. I thought is might be someone's "pet" so I didn't shoot it.
As an after thought, I wished I had shot it because it just seemed absolutely reckless for a person to have a coyote as a pet and allow it to run loose, given the knowledge I had of them. Several weeks later I saw it again and brought it down with my scoped 30-30 rifle at over 100 yards, in the woods.
It did indeed have a collar, with an identification tag on it from the Arizona Game and FishDepartment and a serial number. This was before radio collars and ID chips. The tag was pretty corroded but I called the number I thought I had made out on it, but the call could not be placed. I looked up their number through information and finally got through to them but was placed on hold. When someone answered, I was informed that the person in charge was out and would return my call, which I waited on for days, but it never happened.
That coyote had migrated all the way to Southern Indiana from Arizona. I felt kind of bad about killing an animal that had made such a noble and difficult journey across the country, a judgment call I would have made differently if I had known.
I truly appreciate all of this information. This is hands on, straight from the field.
People will take the strangest pets. Did you hear about the man in New York, it was in the daily news I believe. Can't say the exact date, so this will make my story sound false, but here it is. The gentleman was found in his project apartment building with a tiger. A tiger could maul and kill anyone. lol. I heard of Racoons as pets, snakes, venomis spiders, bears. It's funny, and dangerous.
I haven't see the Coyotes in over two weeks, but I do hear the howls you speak of when they start to hunt. And then the silence, then the neigborhood dogs start barking. They are sneaky. Do you know anything about their intelligence? Are they smart? How effective as hunters are they? What of their families? I know about the Alpha male, but not in detail. I guess I can google this information, and save you the time. But it's interesting. The pscology of animals is pretty incredible. Can you believe, that we once belived animals couldn't communicate with eachother?
Trevlan,
Coyotes are extremely intelligent creatures. Their hearing along with their sense of smell and sight is unbelievable! I have turned their heads in the field at over 100 yards away by just breathing too heavy. I always used a female fox cover scent to mask the fact that a "human" was afield, but they would still turn to my direction and perk their ears. Occassionally a young one would get curious and come right up to me. I would be in appropriate camo with camo paint on my face and ground vegetation tied to me like a marine sniper. It would bolt when scolded by the older ones.
The coyote's family is not like a wolves as far as I have been able to determine. There are no alpha's per se, however the adult male and the adult female and their kits are the family. Family groups or "clans" socially live in proximity but do not den together, but might share a large meal together. Several families may occupy a specific area when other families occupy more distance locations. There seems to be a hierarchy in the clans made up of the older male dogs, much like a senority system.
They do however get together when they hunt with the older dogs leading and teaching the younger ones to hunt. I have heard them call from the top of a horse shoe shaped ridge line that was over five miles in length, one clan at a time, till the loop was completed for the hunt to begin. One particular time I estimated over 75 dogs running through the brush, "beating the bushes" for small game, mice, rodents, birds, etc. Hunting together they are able to deal with larger sizes of prey. You might call these groups neighborhoods or parishes. They also play together but in smaller groups.
Usually, when a single coyote is observed, during the day, it is a younger one set out to find a mate and establish their own family unit. They are quite wary of humans at times but at other times they seem unafraid to approach. I believe they can "read" a person by their scent and tell if the person is a danger to them. I have had them come up to my back porch to steal the food I put out for the cats. After a few times of approaching them slowly and quietly when they did this, they seemed to relax a bit, as if they knew they were not in danger. I had one, that I could shoo off and it would just jump sideways or run for a short distance and come right back, as if playing with me.
Of course some of them have also made off with a few of our cats over the years. They are very smart opportunists and extremely difficult to outsmart. I think also that the coyotes in one area (towns) will behave much differently than others (in the country), depending on the situation, pretty much like humans would do.
The Cherokee people's folk lore concerning coyotes is that Mr. Coyote is a foolish joker, a clown at times, a swindler, and a sneaky thief. In some of the stories of Western native American cultures, he is used by a "shape shifter" or possessed by a witch, because he is so foolish and without conscience. When I hear the term "joker's wild", I smile and think of the coyote in the folklore.
Did you know that New York city once had a coyote population in Central Park that numbered in excess of 200 dogs. Yet, they were very seldom seen. They could be heard at night though, at times. Don't know if any still exist today, I would say yes, but how many is anyone's guess.
I am a native American and have always had an extreme interest in all types of wildlife, and able to communicate with them in ways I won't even mention. One in particular was documented in a story in a local newspaper years ago. The writer of the column was absolutely amazed and speechless after my demonstration with a wild, non captive animal. Just one gift that the Creator saw fit to bless me with, that I have always enjoyed and been humbled by.
The coyote is one of those animals I have always found extremely interesting.
___________
Whitefeather
Coyotes are extremely intelligent creatures. Their hearing along with their sense of smell and sight is unbelievable! I have turned their heads in the field at over 100 yards away by just breathing too heavy. I always used a female fox cover scent to mask the fact that a "human" was afield, but they would still turn to my direction and perk their ears. Occassionally a young one would get curious and come right up to me. I would be in appropriate camo with camo paint on my face and ground vegetation tied to me like a marine sniper. It would bolt when scolded by the older ones.
The coyote's family is not like a wolves as far as I have been able to determine. There are no alpha's per se, however the adult male and the adult female and their kits are the family. Family groups or "clans" socially live in proximity but do not den together, but might share a large meal together. Several families may occupy a specific area when other families occupy more distance locations. There seems to be a hierarchy in the clans made up of the older male dogs, much like a senority system.
They do however get together when they hunt with the older dogs leading and teaching the younger ones to hunt. I have heard them call from the top of a horse shoe shaped ridge line that was over five miles in length, one clan at a time, till the loop was completed for the hunt to begin. One particular time I estimated over 75 dogs running through the brush, "beating the bushes" for small game, mice, rodents, birds, etc. Hunting together they are able to deal with larger sizes of prey. You might call these groups neighborhoods or parishes. They also play together but in smaller groups.
Usually, when a single coyote is observed, during the day, it is a younger one set out to find a mate and establish their own family unit. They are quite wary of humans at times but at other times they seem unafraid to approach. I believe they can "read" a person by their scent and tell if the person is a danger to them. I have had them come up to my back porch to steal the food I put out for the cats. After a few times of approaching them slowly and quietly when they did this, they seemed to relax a bit, as if they knew they were not in danger. I had one, that I could shoo off and it would just jump sideways or run for a short distance and come right back, as if playing with me.
Of course some of them have also made off with a few of our cats over the years. They are very smart opportunists and extremely difficult to outsmart. I think also that the coyotes in one area (towns) will behave much differently than others (in the country), depending on the situation, pretty much like humans would do.
The Cherokee people's folk lore concerning coyotes is that Mr. Coyote is a foolish joker, a clown at times, a swindler, and a sneaky thief. In some of the stories of Western native American cultures, he is used by a "shape shifter" or possessed by a witch, because he is so foolish and without conscience. When I hear the term "joker's wild", I smile and think of the coyote in the folklore.
Did you know that New York city once had a coyote population in Central Park that numbered in excess of 200 dogs. Yet, they were very seldom seen. They could be heard at night though, at times. Don't know if any still exist today, I would say yes, but how many is anyone's guess.
I am a native American and have always had an extreme interest in all types of wildlife, and able to communicate with them in ways I won't even mention. One in particular was documented in a story in a local newspaper years ago. The writer of the column was absolutely amazed and speechless after my demonstration with a wild, non captive animal. Just one gift that the Creator saw fit to bless me with, that I have always enjoyed and been humbled by.
The coyote is one of those animals I have always found extremely interesting.
___________
Whitefeather
Trevlan,
One thing I forgot to mention (just slipped my mind) about the way coyotes hunt. They will switch areas they hunt on a cycled basis. One cycle they will hunt north, then next south or some other direction. I believe this to be for " game conservation"
where one area is not completely wiped out. They do this around my area about every two weeks. That is why you haven't heard them. They've gone another direction to another area. This can be as far as 5 miles away from their denning sites. These hunting sites kind of branch out like the spokes of a wagon wheel.
One thing I forgot to mention (just slipped my mind) about the way coyotes hunt. They will switch areas they hunt on a cycled basis. One cycle they will hunt north, then next south or some other direction. I believe this to be for " game conservation"
where one area is not completely wiped out. They do this around my area about every two weeks. That is why you haven't heard them. They've gone another direction to another area. This can be as far as 5 miles away from their denning sites. These hunting sites kind of branch out like the spokes of a wagon wheel.
My wife and I have been observing a female coyote in Marion County for about five years. She moves her den frequently. The first one was under a log pile on the woodsy side of a six foot chain link fence separating the woods from a busy parking lot. My dogs (Malinois) alerted us by freezing and pointing her out, they did not bark. She responded by attacking the fence. The next day she was lying in wait near the same spot to ambush my dogs but only for another fence fight. After that she moved her den to another woodpile on the far side of the field.
One day we were walking down the trail and my dogs were looking for raspberries which they love. My male about 65 lbs was greeted by the coyote, who was in the raspberry thicket, with a face to face howdy. My dog was startled but when she ran off through the woods, he followed her. He came back as soon as my wife recalled him. Unfortunately my giant 98 lb female slipped her leash and took off in hot pursuit and would not be recalled. There was no barking this whole time. When they got to the den, the coyote turned and the fight was on. It sounded like they were both being murdered and they were going around like a tornado. After a few seconds they stopped for a breather since it was very hot and they were in the sun. My wife was able to get our dog to recall but every time she tried to leave the scene, the coyote would attack her rear and she would turn and fight some more. We couldn't get over the fence to help and our girl couldn't disengage or get back because she was cut off from where she had entered the field and had the six foot chain link fence between her and us. My wife's solution was to send in reinforcements so she released the boy. He went through the woods and found where they had entered the field and stood beside the our other dog until the coyote started backing up then he led the girl back out the way they had gone in without further incident. The girl had no marks on her and was no worse for wear.
That was about five years ago and there has been a truce. The female is beautiful and about 35 lbs.. I've seen two males and one day all three were in the field together but scattered. One of the males is very large and magnificent. I got within 20 feet of him once when I rode my bicycle down the edge of the parking lot and he was sitting up like a statue in a small clearing with the sunlight on him like a spot light. He showed no fear but appeared to be the master of his domain.
The last time I saw one was almost two years ago a single young pup was out in the open field 100 yards away. I got to watch him for a long time but I had to avert my stare or he would back up into the woods.
One day we were walking down the trail and my dogs were looking for raspberries which they love. My male about 65 lbs was greeted by the coyote, who was in the raspberry thicket, with a face to face howdy. My dog was startled but when she ran off through the woods, he followed her. He came back as soon as my wife recalled him. Unfortunately my giant 98 lb female slipped her leash and took off in hot pursuit and would not be recalled. There was no barking this whole time. When they got to the den, the coyote turned and the fight was on. It sounded like they were both being murdered and they were going around like a tornado. After a few seconds they stopped for a breather since it was very hot and they were in the sun. My wife was able to get our dog to recall but every time she tried to leave the scene, the coyote would attack her rear and she would turn and fight some more. We couldn't get over the fence to help and our girl couldn't disengage or get back because she was cut off from where she had entered the field and had the six foot chain link fence between her and us. My wife's solution was to send in reinforcements so she released the boy. He went through the woods and found where they had entered the field and stood beside the our other dog until the coyote started backing up then he led the girl back out the way they had gone in without further incident. The girl had no marks on her and was no worse for wear.
That was about five years ago and there has been a truce. The female is beautiful and about 35 lbs.. I've seen two males and one day all three were in the field together but scattered. One of the males is very large and magnificent. I got within 20 feet of him once when I rode my bicycle down the edge of the parking lot and he was sitting up like a statue in a small clearing with the sunlight on him like a spot light. He showed no fear but appeared to be the master of his domain.
The last time I saw one was almost two years ago a single young pup was out in the open field 100 yards away. I got to watch him for a long time but I had to avert my stare or he would back up into the woods.
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I have nothing much to add that has not already been said....
In short I am a Officer for Indianpolis Public Safety ACCD. There are coyotes all over this city, coy dogs are common and we have had on more then one occasion Wof Hybrids at the shelter.
This city is over run with feral dogs and they are packing up more and more. The very fact that this city also has a problem with Dog Fighting does not help this issue. The "owners" disgard the loosers and they simply add to the problem.
I suggest that if anyone with in the city limits has problems with roaming dogs, stray dogs and or packs to give us a call and we will do our best to tackle the situation....
In short I am a Officer for Indianpolis Public Safety ACCD. There are coyotes all over this city, coy dogs are common and we have had on more then one occasion Wof Hybrids at the shelter.
This city is over run with feral dogs and they are packing up more and more. The very fact that this city also has a problem with Dog Fighting does not help this issue. The "owners" disgard the loosers and they simply add to the problem.
I suggest that if anyone with in the city limits has problems with roaming dogs, stray dogs and or packs to give us a call and we will do our best to tackle the situation....
Has anyone ever heard of a coyote playing "possum"? Last summer my dogs attacked a young coyote. Before I could stop him, my nephew had picked up the "dead" coyote. Well, I could see by his eye movement, taking in my dogs and myself, that he wasn't dead. He was, in fact, very alert. I assumed that my dogs had broken his back, and that he was paralyzed. I had my nephew lay him down next to my creek, so he could at least get a drink before he died. We stood there for over half an hour taking pictures of him, and my nephew played with his foot pads and prodded him with a stick. All the while, the coyote never moved a muscle, except for his eyes, which took in everything. As we walked away, I heard something, and turned to see the coyote standing up, and he took off running like a bat out of ****!!! I live out in the middle of nowhere, so I'm sure this was a purebred coyote, and not someone's pet. Had he continued fighting my dogs, they would have quickly killed him. I also can't believe that he allowed himself to be picked up and carried without fighting. My nephew is VERY lucky that he did't get a face full of coyote snout. This coyotes intelligence is all that saved him.
Net nanny. I called my female Malinois the b-word with no disrespect intended for her or anyone else but the net nanny won't allow it. I thought it was my MS Word that had done it so I tried to edit it on here but it still wouldn't fly so I said girl. I've seen profanity on this forum so I don't get it. PC profanity but not technically correct language. That is PC x 2. Just sayin'.
All these coyotes and ferral dogs runing at large, especially in a large metropolis, poses a very nasty scenario. And that is an epidemic of rabies. This happened in Texas in "99 I believe or there abouts and 98% of the coyote population was victim to it. Can you imagine the problem you mentioned with that factor added? Aggressiveness and attacks on humans, domestic animals and livestock would be a real nightmare.
Modern veternary science believes that rabies has been total eradicated in most places. Nobody went out into the woods and vacinated all the critters that are susceptible to rabies so I don't understand their thinking. I sincerely hope this never happens, it would be a castastophe.
I think your imagination may have gotten the best of you. Maybe you are seeing things a little larger than life in your memory. If it was not a loose dog then it was a coyote. A coyote has a lot of fur that can make it look larger but not anywhere near a 150#. Are you sure you are a good judge of distance and weight?
wrigleycub
Sharpshooter
Why not call a CO, I have heard that there have been wolves spotted in Indiana. I recently recall reading an article about a farmer east of new castle that killed a wolf that was tagged from Wisconsin. Likewise, i've also heard of mountain lion/cougar sightings in indiana.
A link about a wolf killed in indiana in 2003 Is there another wolf in Illinois? :: Prairie State Outdoors
cougar link
Cougars / Mt. Lion sightings in Indiana ?
A link about a wolf killed in indiana in 2003 Is there another wolf in Illinois? :: Prairie State Outdoors
cougar link
Cougars / Mt. Lion sightings in Indiana ?
Wolves? This thread started out about coyotes in Franklin township.
I believe the title of this thread says "WOLVES".
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