What is the worst possible scenario in any case?

[Mosinowner]

Clinton will provide more of the same that we have had over the past 8 year. Ultimately this boils down to two things.
1: The belief that American is too much of a world power and should have less influence in world affairs... this is what I see from the other side. Ideas like Globalization, Mcworld, ideas espoused in the book Guns, Germs, and steel. Ideas such as Western privilege and the need to protect Eastern culture. Essentially expansive multiculturalism is being pushed as part of the culture promoted in the past eight years. Having spent the majority of my last four years of schooling in a progressive classroom setting I have seen revisionist history first hand. Ideas designed to imply the west is evil and we should be punished for our past sins. (Extra emphasis is placed on ideas such as our enslavement of African Americans, civil rights era oppression, the KKK, and anything else that makes us look bad while also sitting that we stole the majority of our good ideas from the Muslims in the crusades or other cultures we have oppressed over time.)

2: Increased spending on domestic policy including policy attempting to reduce racial tension (Which ironically will come along with militarization of police forces), expand the social safety net, and what I believe is the icing on the cake for the left: Single payer healthcare. The Obamacare exchanges have failed, and failed miserably at that. According to ZeroHedge 12 of the 23 Co-ops have failed and have defaulted on $1.2 billon in federal loans.
Source: Why The Obamacare Exchanges Are Failing | Zero Hedge
This means that policymakers will start pushing single payer as the current system just isn't good enough. It may happen in term one, or it may happen in term two. I can see it being the running issue of the second term much like Obamacare being the running issue for the left in 2008, this is because race relations seem to be dominating the political scene at the moment.

(Just a quick note: As per guns I don't see any major federal restrictions being enacted. The fact that Sandy hook and Orlando especially could happen with no change in federal law is anecdotal evidence but evidence none the less. At the beginning of O's first term the entire government was blue and nothing was done, this is because they need it as a grandstanding issue.)

Trump:
A Trump presidency is scary because it has been said over and over again that he is a wild card, but really I think the biggest impact of a Trump presidency will not be policy based but culture based. I see the man as an interesting shift away from political correctness and if he can make this election about culture instead of policy he can certainly win. It is important to note that the president is not the end all be all. He is the figurehead and is the cultural mast that the country takes its lead from. Obama has been particularly active in pushing policy and I believe Clinton would be too, but Trump, in my mind, would be more open to his advisors. Trump choosing Pence shows he can listen to those who criticize him and while this may be a symbolic gesture it may also be foreshadowing for the type of people Trump lets into his cabinet.

All of this being said I am not sure who I will be voting for in my first election as part of the electorate.

 

[Bennettjh]

I can guarantee I won't be voting for Killary

 

[Bfish]

You say a Trump presidency is scary... if that's scary I don't know how I would describe a Crooked Hillary presidency...
That's unfathomable. Just thinking about it makes me want to... Well

 

[Ruffnek]

I'm in the "anyone but Hillary" camp myself.

As you mentioned, the president isn't the end-all-be-all due to a system of checks and balances. My thinking (keeping in mind that I have no further political education than my high school government class and the things I've witnessed since I opened my eyes) is that Trump is our best option because even if he gets a little crazy with his ideas and passion, our system of checks and balances can reign him back in. Hillary is used to getting what she wants and the epic failure to indict her by the FBI confirms, at least in my eyes, my fear that most anyone would slowly step back rather than stand up to her tyrannical ways. The Clinton Dynasty is a real thing, and a dangerous one.

 

[Ruffnek]

Damn phone doubled up on me.

 

[Sylvain]

You still have a third party option.

 

[Bfish]

You still have a third party option.

You are correct here. And I think for some people in states that will most certainly be won by Trump they should maybe cease that opportunity to give a third party some more notoriety. Same could be said for if you live in a state that will most certainly go Dem. However, voting against Hillary is where I feel I want my vote to go.

Honestly the biggest thing that worries me is that we will have people who would have voted for conservative pro gun members of the senate and house stay home and not vote because they don't like Trump... I REALLY HOPE that they will at least vote 3rd party and vote for those people. We CANNNOT afford to loose congress and the presidency. Then we will really be screwed!

 

[tacticalmaster45]

I'm in the "anyone but Hillary" camp myself.

As you mentioned, the president isn't the end-all-be-all due to a system of checks and balances. My thinking (keeping in mind that I have no further political education than my high school government class and the things I've witnessed since I opened my eyes) is that Trump is our best option because even if he gets a little crazy with his ideas and passion, our system of checks and balances can reign him back in. Hillary is used to getting what she wants and the epic failure to indict her by the FBI confirms, at least in my eyes, my fear that most anyone would slowly step back rather than stand up to her tyrannical ways. The Clinton Dynasty is a real thing, and a dangerous one.

Well said

 

[Twangbanger]

Some good observations there. The only thing I would potentially disagree with is this:

...(Just a quick note: As per guns I don't see any major federal restrictions being enacted. The fact that Sandy hook and Orlando especially could happen with no change in federal law is anecdotal evidence but evidence none the less. At the beginning of O's first term the entire government was blue and nothing was done, this is because they need it as a grandstanding issue.)...

.

The reason nothing happened after Sandy Hook was that by that time, the GOP controlled the House of Reps., and Senators were hesitant to stick their necks out on legislation which was sure to die in the House. During that first two-year honeymoon period, it was indeed true that Big Money issues like Stimulus, Healthcare, Cap and Trade, and Immigration were all in the takeoff queue ahead of gun control. And again, Obama did not get the back half of that list, because he lost the House in 2010. If they had retained it by even one vote, we'd be in a different reality now. Gun control included, because of Sandy Hook.

If Hillary gets in, and gets the green light from a Democrat House of Reps., there is no telling where this could go. Obama was not primarily interested in Gun Control, because he was more interested in re-arranging the ground rules of the US economy. Hillary, on the other hand, just spent the better part of a decade making high-buck speeches to the old men who want to keep the economy the way it is. She will be more inclined to pursue gun control, because like abortion to the GOP, it's one social issue that can be harped on to appeal to the base without scaring away corporate donors.

 

[Tombs]

Trump is chemotherapy for a nation that's abandoned rule of law and has been long weighed down with corruption. Political correctness has grown to such an extent that "islamic terrorism" is now redacted in almost every single document, even though we have been at war with it for nearly 2 decades now.

Would Trump be a good idea if we were a perfectly functioning nation with a competent government? No.
But just remember, we don't have a perfectly functioning nation, nor even a competent government. It's time to cure the illness before it kills us. He's the right man at the right time for the right problem, regardless how many sound bites the media gets of him making a stupid.

The worst possibility with Hillary is world war 3. She will escalate conflict in the middle east, further degrade relations with Russia, and stoke the coals of the unrest and division here at home. We would be the losers in that war. Gun rights would be a moot point in the face of that.

If she can't even handle a few emails without being "extremely careless" how do you think she's going to handle the nuclear codes, and other executive privileges?

Worst possibility with Trump? He offends some people and accomplishes nothing. Do you really think he knows the ins and outs of government to the extent he could weasel by on anything without getting hung up on our system of checks and balances? Just ask yourself that as you sit back and call him clueless about our government.

Follow the money and make your choice wisely.

 

[DragonGunner]

For those who forgot about the Clinton years….If you're under 50 you really need to read this. If you’re over 50, you lived through it, so share it with those under 50. Amazing to me how much I had forgotten!
When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn’t even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress. This fiasco cost the American taxpayers about $13 million in cost for studies, promotion, and other efforts.
Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general. Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood – both were forced to withdraw their names from consideration. Next she chose Janet Reno – husband Bill described her selection as “my worst mistake.” Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Koresh and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children.
Husband Bill allowed Hillary to make recommendations for the head of the Civil Rights Commission. Lani Guanier was her selection. When a little probing led to the discovery of Ms. Guanier’s radical views, her name had to be withdrawn from consideration.
Apparently a slow learner, husband Bill allowed Hillary to make some more recommendations. She chose former law partners Web Hubbel for the Justice Department, Vince Foster for the White House staff, and William Kennedy for the Treasury Department. Her selections went well: Hubbel went to prison, Foster (presumably) committed suicide, and Kennedy was forced to resign.
Many younger votes will have no knowledge of “Travelgate.” Hillary wanted to award unfettered travel contracts to Clinton friend Harry Thompson – and the White House Travel Office refused to comply. She managed to have them reported to the FBI and fired. This ruined their reputations, cost them their jobs, and caused a thirty-six month investigation. Only one employee, Billy Dale was charged with a crime, and that of the enormous crime of mixing personal and White House funds. A jury acquitted him of any crime in less than two hours.
Still not convinced of her ineptness, Hillary was allowed to recommend a close Clinton friend, Craig Livingstone, for the position of Director of White House security. When Livingstone was investigated for the improper access of about 900 FBI files of Clinton enemies (Filegate) and the widespread use of drugs by White House staff, suddenly Hillary and the president denied even knowing Livingstone, and of course, denied knowledge of drug use in the White House.
Following this debacle, the FBI closed its White House Liaison Office after more than thirty years of service to seven presidents.
Next, when women started coming forward with allegations of sexual harassment and rape by Bill Clinton, Hillary was put in charge of the #$%$ eruption” and scandal defense. Some of her more notable decisions in the debacle were:
She urged her husband not to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit. After the Starr investigation they settled with Ms. Jones.
She refused to release the Whitewater documents, which led to the appointment of Ken Starr as Special Prosecutor.
After $80 million dollars of taxpayer money was spent, Starr's investigation led to Monica Lewinsky, which led to Bill lying about and later admitting his affairs.
Hillary’s devious game plan resulted in Bill losing his license to practice law for 'lying under oath' to a grand jury and then his subsequent impeachment by the House of Representatives.
Hillary avoided indictment for perjury and obstruction of justice during the Starr investigation by repeating, “I do not recall,” “I have no recollection,” and “I don’t know” a total of 56 times while under oath.
After leaving the White House, Hillary was forced to return an estimated $200,000 in White House furniture, china, and artwork that she had stolen.
What a swell party – ready for another four or eight year of this type of low-life mess?
Now we are exposed to the destruction of possibly incriminating emails while Hillary was Secretary of State and the “pay to play” schemes of the Clinton Foundation – we have no idea what shoe will fall next.
But to her loyal fans (supporters) - I guess in her own words “what difference does it make?”

 

[spec4]

Agree 100% with the above. Her career has been one scandalous criminal disaster after another. Anyone who votes for her is either a brainless Dem ideologue or delusional. Since she is on record as approving Australian style gun disarmament, I'd like those of you saying you may/will vote for her explain how that squares with your gun ownership and being on this forum.

 

[Leadeye]

For me it boils down to the single 2A issue this election, but the clinton machine operates like mafia. Groups who pay will get favorable treatment those that don't get nothing and those that oppose get hurt. The interests of public that leadership is supposed to serve are irrelevant.