What drills did you run this week and how did you do?

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  • cedartop

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    Apr 25, 2010
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    As I mentioned, State match this weekend so I am gaming it all week. Live fire tonight. We got the match book yesterday so I went out and practiced the only 2 accurately reproducible stages out of it. It doesn't hurt that neither has movement to tempt me to run. I did learn a thing or two.

    First up was the warm up stage. I shot this same warm up stage last month at the club that is now hosting the state match. Out of 70 shooters, I had the best time at 5.28. It goes as follows, at the 5 yard line with 3 rounds in the gun draw and fire 2 to the body 1 to the head and then reload and repeat. Out of 8 attempts tonight my best clean run was 4.86. So what I learned here was that the time I posted last month is currently in the realm of about as good as I can do and I should be happy with it. Get a clean draw, grip correctly, make a smooth reload with a slight pause at insertion and things will be fine.

    Next up was the standards stage. After a pretty convoluted one last year they made this one more straightforward. 3 targets one each at the 3, 12, and 24 yard line. Starting with 6 in the gun draw and fire 6 rounds to each target in tactical priority reloading as needed. This is where the gaming begins. In a standards stage concealment garments are optional. I was thinking I may wear mine to make it easier to do a tactical reload between the 12 and 24 yard target to avoiding doing a slide lock reload on the 24 yard target and then having to re engage. Of course this means you gun is also covered, or does it. As a friend pointed out to me, you can wear your garment but pin it behind your back on the gun side so you have an open draw. Dang gamers.

    Because of range rules I cant place targets away from the back stop so I had to run each of these distances separately. At the 3 yard bill I was running a bout a .8 DTFH and then 18, 19, 20 splits to come out around 1.75 seconds. At the 12 yard distance I was starting from slide lock and then reloading on the beep and firing my 6 rounds. The reload and 6 shots were putting me at just over 4 seconds. At 24 yards things got interesting. I was trying out the tactical reload theory here so starting with removing the mag from the gun and stowing it in my vest pocket and the firing my 6. It takes my almost twice as long to do the tac load as a slide lock reload. Normally it doesn't matter because you are moving somewhere while doing it. This stage is stationary. So now the question remains, is it better to just do a slide lock reload 4 rounds into the 24 yard target and then re engage for the last 2 rounds?

    I did try a final run from 3 with a full size target, and head circle for the 12 yard and a 2 inch sticker for the 24 yard target. It just isn't the same. There is something about shooting at distance that just scaling doesn't account for.
     

    ECS686

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    As I mentioned, State match this weekend so I am gaming it all week. Live fire tonight. We got the match book yesterday so I went out and practiced the only 2 accurately reproducible stages out of it. It doesn't hurt that neither has movement to tempt me to run. I did learn a thing or two.

    First up was the warm up stage. I shot this same warm up stage last month at the club that is now hosting the state match. Out of 70 shooters, I had the best time at 5.28. It goes as follows, at the 5 yard line with 3 rounds in the gun draw and fire 2 to the body 1 to the head and then reload and repeat. Out of 8 attempts tonight my best clean run was 4.86. So what I learned here was that the time I posted last month is currently in the realm of about as good as I can do and I should be happy with it. Get a clean draw, grip correctly, make a smooth reload with a slight pause at insertion and things will be fine.

    Next up was the standards stage. After a pretty convoluted one last year they made this one more straightforward. 3 targets one each at the 3, 12, and 24 yard line. Starting with 6 in the gun draw and fire 6 rounds to each target in tactical priority reloading as needed. This is where the gaming begins. In a standards stage concealment garments are optional. I was thinking I may wear mine to make it easier to do a tactical reload between the 12 and 24 yard target to avoiding doing a slide lock reload on the 24 yard target and then having to re engage. Of course this means you gun is also covered, or does it. As a friend pointed out to me, you can wear your garment but pin it behind your back on the gun side so you have an open draw. Dang gamers.

    Because of range rules I cant place targets away from the back stop so I had to run each of these distances separately. At the 3 yard bill I was running a bout a .8 DTFH and then 18, 19, 20 splits to come out around 1.75 seconds. At the 12 yard distance I was starting from slide lock and then reloading on the beep and firing my 6 rounds. The reload and 6 shots were putting me at just over 4 seconds. At 24 yards things got interesting. I was trying out the tactical reload theory here so starting with removing the mag from the gun and stowing it in my vest pocket and the firing my 6. It takes my almost twice as long to do the tac load as a slide lock reload. Normally it doesn't matter because you are moving somewhere while doing it. This stage is stationary. So now the question remains, is it better to just do a slide lock reload 4 rounds into the 24 yard target and then re engage for the last 2 rounds?

    I did try a final run from 3 with a full size target, and head circle for the 12 yard and a 2 inch sticker for the 24 yard target. It just isn't the same. There is something about shooting at distance that just scaling doesn't account for.
    Good luck this weekend. Sort of mis doing the IDPA stuff
     

    ECS686

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    Thanks. Since recovery from this surgery won't allow me to move like normal, I am just going to try and have fun and work my mental game.
    Sometimes folks forget how to just have fun. I get it’s competition but the in it to win it types sort of got over the top and is why I bowed out and just started hosting training classes.
     

    cedartop

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    Sometimes folks forget how to just have fun. I get it’s competition but the in it to win it types sort of got over the top and is why I bowed out and just started hosting training classes.
    Notice I said try to have fun. I am more like the over the top guys you mention. I figure why would you do it if you are not trying to win. It is getting harder as I get older and we are seeing more young people/USPSA shooters coming in.
     

    Creedmoor

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    We burned 5-700 rounds of 9mm the other day at the club. Dad was relearned on how to hold a pistol because he has been doing it wrong for 45 + years.
    Its always interesting to keep an open mind and try to absorb what my kids have learned over the last 7 years or so.
     

    cedartop

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    Apr 25, 2010
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    Match prep continues. Worked Stoegers tracking the a zone drill for most of the session and then did some more 25 yard work for the standards stage. I ran it as a transition, 4r2.


     

    backtrail540

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    Aug 3, 2008
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    Angola, IN
    I've noticed that my index with glocks is going away and they're pointing high again. Out of boredom and because of this i took out the 5" m&p 2.0 pc. It is the gun that points most natural for me when i'm not dry practicing or putting in much work. We started with a cold Defoor test #1. I was under score on the 25 yard first string by 2 points due to three in the 7 ring and a fouled draw put me over on the single shot draw. I made the bill drill and credit card times clean without an issue.

    I haven't ran the 10-8 pistol test in years but some rabbit hole or other lead me to Hilton's channel a while back and I decided to do it again. Rather than pick a par and stick with it we just ran them and looked at it as a meauring stick of where we were at in the advanced, intermediate, beginner rea. I shot everything at a pace that was pushing slightly but controlled and made intermediate on all strings with a few being advanced. I pulled 2 rounds total out of 65. I like to think of the levels as advanced - trained, intermediate - needs practice, and beginner - needs remedial action.

    What i enjoyed was that it is a manipulation heavy test and your gun handling is really put to the test if you're making the advanced time. Lots of singled handed shooting is good but i would have liked a tighter headbox, though most of my headbox shots were in the -0. I could only find 1 magazine for the m&p but i used a shadow 2 magazine when i could if it only required one round as it would lock in enough to feed one then drop under recoil. For stages that required more than 1 round before a reload of after then i simply switched guns and ran a shadow systems xr920. (funky hillbilly way of doing things but i had the m&p itch and the shadow systems points similarly). I need to get the m&p mags back from a friend.

    Anyway, in the past I had said i didn't think the ports on the m&p did much other than create blast. That was when i took only the m&p and shot it all day and compared on memory. Today, switching between the two guns back to back, it was absolutely a noticeable difference. Very soft push and minimal dot rise vs the real bounce and hard push of the xr920. The xr tracked well and i could shoot it at the same or similar pace but there was no two ways about it, the ports worked. I retract my previous statements ;)

    We ran a few rifle drills and rung a bit of steel just messing around with various made up challenges until we had enough. I'm getting closer to a promotion and schedule that will be conducive to regular dry practice and general healthier lifestyle so i'm looking forward to getting there and regaining some lost ground.



    10-8 pistol test - https://pistol-training.com/shooting-drills/10-8-pistol-test/


    10-8 pistol test run - all intermediate or better - 63/65
     

    ECS686

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    I've noticed that my index with glocks is going away and they're pointing high again. Out of boredom and because of this i took out the 5" m&p 2.0 pc. It is the gun that points most natural for me when i'm not dry practicing or putting in much work. We started with a cold Defoor test #1. I was under score on the 25 yard first string by 2 points due to three in the 7 ring and a fouled draw put me over on the single shot draw. I made the bill drill and credit card times clean without an issue.

    I haven't ran the 10-8 pistol test in years but some rabbit hole or other lead me to Hilton's channel a while back and I decided to do it again. Rather than pick a par and stick with it we just ran them and looked at it as a meauring stick of where we were at in the advanced, intermediate, beginner rea. I shot everything at a pace that was pushing slightly but controlled and made intermediate on all strings with a few being advanced. I pulled 2 rounds total out of 65. I like to think of the levels as advanced - trained, intermediate - needs practice, and beginner - needs remedial action.

    What i enjoyed was that it is a manipulation heavy test and your gun handling is really put to the test if you're making the advanced time. Lots of singled handed shooting is good but i would have liked a tighter headbox, though most of my headbox shots were in the -0. I could only find 1 magazine for the m&p but i used a shadow 2 magazine when i could if it only required one round as it would lock in enough to feed one then drop under recoil. For stages that required more than 1 round before a reload of after then i simply switched guns and ran a shadow systems xr920. (funky hillbilly way of doing things but i had the m&p itch and the shadow systems points similarly). I need to get the m&p mags back from a friend.

    Anyway, in the past I had said i didn't think the ports on the m&p did much other than create blast. That was when i took only the m&p and shot it all day and compared on memory. Today, switching between the two guns back to back, it was absolutely a noticeable difference. Very soft push and minimal dot rise vs the real bounce and hard push of the xr920. The xr tracked well and i could shoot it at the same or similar pace but there was no two ways about it, the ports worked. I retract my previous statements ;)

    We ran a few rifle drills and rung a bit of steel just messing around with various made up challenges until we had enough. I'm getting closer to a promotion and schedule that will be conducive to regular dry practice and general healthier lifestyle so i'm looking forward to getting there and regaining some lost ground.



    10-8 pistol test - https://pistol-training.com/shooting-drills/10-8-pistol-test/


    10-8 pistol test run - all intermediate or better - 63/65
    I never **** Glocks quit as well as S&W and Sigs and also felt they point high for most. I went to a Glock Iperator school and finally learned how to run them on par with other makes.

    One trick I did pick up from a friend that works for Glock is a lot of folks cut the medium backstrap down about 4-5 lines below the pin and that helps point more naturally. Some like it some don’t

    That said I do like my M&Ps more!
     

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    backtrail540

    Sharpshooter
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    11   0   0
    Aug 3, 2008
    439
    27
    Angola, IN
    I never **** Glocks quit as well as S&W and Sigs and also felt they point high for most. I went to a Glock Iperator school and finally learned how to run them on par with other makes.

    One trick I did pick up from a friend that works for Glock is a lot of folks cut the medium backstrap down about 4-5 lines below the pin and that helps point more naturally. Some like it some don’t

    That said I do like my M&Ps more!
    I've done this in the past as well and it works fine but one of the things i like about the glock grip angle is it forces me into a more locked in bone structure, which i find beneficial.

    When I'm doing regular dry practice and actually doing my part to maintain then it isn't an issue as I will run them exclusively and the index is there. But lately i haven't been doing any of that and it's fell by the wayside.

    Performance wise, most of my PR's have been set with glocks but i don't believe the gun has as much to do with it but rather that happened to be what i was running when i was at that point in my skill level.
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
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    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,707
    113
    North of Notre Dame.
    I've noticed that my index with glocks is going away and they're pointing high again. Out of boredom and because of this i took out the 5" m&p 2.0 pc. It is the gun that points most natural for me when i'm not dry practicing or putting in much work. We started with a cold Defoor test #1. I was under score on the 25 yard first string by 2 points due to three in the 7 ring and a fouled draw put me over on the single shot draw. I made the bill drill and credit card times clean without an issue.

    I haven't ran the 10-8 pistol test in years but some rabbit hole or other lead me to Hilton's channel a while back and I decided to do it again. Rather than pick a par and stick with it we just ran them and looked at it as a meauring stick of where we were at in the advanced, intermediate, beginner rea. I shot everything at a pace that was pushing slightly but controlled and made intermediate on all strings with a few being advanced. I pulled 2 rounds total out of 65. I like to think of the levels as advanced - trained, intermediate - needs practice, and beginner - needs remedial action.

    What i enjoyed was that it is a manipulation heavy test and your gun handling is really put to the test if you're making the advanced time. Lots of singled handed shooting is good but i would have liked a tighter headbox, though most of my headbox shots were in the -0. I could only find 1 magazine for the m&p but i used a shadow 2 magazine when i could if it only required one round as it would lock in enough to feed one then drop under recoil. For stages that required more than 1 round before a reload of after then i simply switched guns and ran a shadow systems xr920. (funky hillbilly way of doing things but i had the m&p itch and the shadow systems points similarly). I need to get the m&p mags back from a friend.

    Anyway, in the past I had said i didn't think the ports on the m&p did much other than create blast. That was when i took only the m&p and shot it all day and compared on memory. Today, switching between the two guns back to back, it was absolutely a noticeable difference. Very soft push and minimal dot rise vs the real bounce and hard push of the xr920. The xr tracked well and i could shoot it at the same or similar pace but there was no two ways about it, the ports worked. I retract my previous statements ;)

    We ran a few rifle drills and rung a bit of steel just messing around with various made up challenges until we had enough. I'm getting closer to a promotion and schedule that will be conducive to regular dry practice and general healthier lifestyle so i'm looking forward to getting there and regaining some lost ground.



    10-8 pistol test - https://pistol-training.com/shooting-drills/10-8-pistol-test/


    10-8 pistol test run - all intermediate or better - 63/65
    When all I shot was Glocks the grip angle never bothered me, but add some other stuff into the mix and it becomes a problem especially if using dots. I just got tired of having to double the index practice and quit shooting them, that being said, there is so much going for them and I have so many of them and so many magazines, holsters, etc, they may work there way back into my life.

    I haven't run the 10-8 test in a while because I am trying to do less of that and just more practice, but it is a good one. I think ports are definitely on my horizon. I think often of sending a G19 for some lucky sevens.

    Glad to hear you might get to free some time up.
     

    cedartop

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    1   0   0
    Apr 25, 2010
    6,707
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    North of Notre Dame.
    Had to do a little penance for the poor performance at the state match. In particular I did poorly on the standards stage. This is disappointing for a couple of reasons. First, that is usually a good type of stage for me. Second, since I can't run yet I needed to do well on the few stages that didn't have a lot of movement. We will get to the particulars shortly.

    First up I ran 4 evos of the Dyal double add1 drill. I have become enamored with this drill as of late. It is not easy but is very doable if you pay attention to detail. I ran it on 3X5 cards today. I made all of the par times but only shot it clean once out of 4 attempts. When I get to where I can shoot it clean on the regular I plan to do it from the draw. The ammo I used was from a box I won as a door prize at the state match. It is ammo that people here on INGO often claim doesn't exist, 9mm match ammo. To be specific this was Atlanta Arms Elite 124 grain HP match ammo. I only ran the 4 reps of the Dyal drill so I could shoot 10 rounds on a 25 yard B8 bull. The results may not seem spectacular but for me and the gun I was using they are pretty solid, except for the one that I yanked like I was trying to pull start a chain saw.

    PXL_20230814_180906972.MP.jpg

    So now we got around to my bad performance on the standards stage. I did fine at the 3 yard and 12 yard bill but not so good at the 24 yard one. I called a bad shot but in reality it was worse, I had one Mike and a 3 down. That was pretty painful. My raw time was 15.61 with 11 points down, 10 of those on the 24 yard target. This was I believe by far my worst performance of the match with an 83/130. To be a little fair, there were some good shooters, Masters even who did worse than I. At practice today I ran 8 reps of 25 yard bill drills. Some were ok and others not great. I averaged around 5 seconds and dropped 22 of the available 240 points. Clearly this could be better.

    After that I ran a couple of reps with the Spaulding 9 in 9 drill. If you want something with some movement I find this to be a great drill. I couldn't all out run yet, but I think if you do everything else well you could still make the par. I found a good article on the drill where he mentions Ken Hackahthorn opens the time and accuracy requirements a bit. I won't be using those, but it would be a good place for many people to start.
     

    backtrail540

    Sharpshooter
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    11   0   0
    Aug 3, 2008
    439
    27
    Angola, IN
    Had to do a little penance for the poor performance at the state match. In particular I did poorly on the standards stage. This is disappointing for a couple of reasons. First, that is usually a good type of stage for me. Second, since I can't run yet I needed to do well on the few stages that didn't have a lot of movement. We will get to the particulars shortly.

    First up I ran 4 evos of the Dyal double add1 drill. I have become enamored with this drill as of late. It is not easy but is very doable if you pay attention to detail. I ran it on 3X5 cards today. I made all of the par times but only shot it clean once out of 4 attempts. When I get to where I can shoot it clean on the regular I plan to do it from the draw. The ammo I used was from a box I won as a door prize at the state match. It is ammo that people here on INGO often claim doesn't exist, 9mm match ammo. To be specific this was Atlanta Arms Elite 124 grain HP match ammo. I only ran the 4 reps of the Dyal drill so I could shoot 10 rounds on a 25 yard B8 bull. The results may not seem spectacular but for me and the gun I was using they are pretty solid, except for the one that I yanked like I was trying to pull start a chain saw.

    View attachment 292887

    So now we got around to my bad performance on the standards stage. I did fine at the 3 yard and 12 yard bill but not so good at the 24 yard one. I called a bad shot but in reality it was worse, I had one Mike and a 3 down. That was pretty painful. My raw time was 15.61 with 11 points down, 10 of those on the 24 yard target. This was I believe by far my worst performance of the match with an 83/130. To be a little fair, there were some good shooters, Masters even who did worse than I. At practice today I ran 8 reps of 25 yard bill drills. Some were ok and others not great. I averaged around 5 seconds and dropped 22 of the available 240 points. Clearly this could be better.

    After that I ran a couple of reps with the Spaulding 9 in 9 drill. If you want something with some movement I find this to be a great drill. I couldn't all out run yet, but I think if you do everything else well you could still make the par. I found a good article on the drill where he mentions Ken Hackahthorn opens the time and accuracy requirements a bit. I won't be using those, but it would be a good place for many people to start.
    What are Standards stages in IDPA? They are different than classifiers, correct? Is there a resource for these or do they vary from match to match? If so, what makes them Standards vs any other stage?
     

    cedartop

    Grandmaster
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    Apr 25, 2010
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    North of Notre Dame.
    What are Standards stages in IDPA? They are different than classifiers, correct? Is there a resource for these or do they vary from match to match? If so, what makes them Standards vs any other stage?
    They vary. Largely they are something that is not a scenario course. Little to no movement, stand and deliver. A lot of the time there is more distance or one handed shooting involved. They have their own set of rules.

    6.1.2.1 Standards Stages are designed to test the shooter's performance of the various fundamentals employed in IDPA shooting. Standards stages may use Limited or Unlimited scoring and are not required to have an accompanying scenario built into the stage description. Target engagement may be dictated in the written stage briefing as a shooting drill testing a shooting or gun handling skill. With the exception of Classifier or Specialty Matches, sanctioned matches are limited to having 2 standard stages per match

    6.5.4 Standards stages may have targets up to 30 yards from the shooter.

    6.5.22 No shots are to be required at distances greater than 10 yards in scenario stages, or 15 yards in standards stages for targets head sized or smaller.


    They are not always straight forward like the one at this match.
     

    Trapper Jim

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    IDPA State match coming up this weekend. I shot my first match in about a month yesterday to sorta see where my recovery from surgery has set my limits. I did my best not to run. Surprisingly that didn't affect my raw time much. I will be trying to alternate nights of dry fire and live fire this week in prep. Tonight was live fire.

    I started again with the Justin Dyal Double Add 1 drill for a box worth of ammo this time using a 3X5 card and a simple pass fail. I did not pass any of the 5 attempts but all were good for time and close on hits. I am still learning from this one.

    Worked 7 yard doubles for a box after that. Averaged .19 splits and still managed to throw a few out of the down zero. Still working the big 2, grip and vision.

    Speaking of vision I went to 1 shot transitions. I do these 2 ways. With 2 IDPA (or USPSA or whatever) targets type 1 is aimed in and on the peep you snap your vision to the other target allow the pistol to arrive and break the shot. Type 2 is you aim in, break the shot and then snap your eyes to the other target and find your spot without firing. That dry aim really allows you to see what you might have been doing right or wrong on the live one more clearly.

    I finished up my 6 remaining rounds with a 7 yard one hole drill. It was a fail at 5+1.

    The one big downside to this session was an experiment I tried. I put my good (meaning capable of decent precision) Sig top end on my AXG lower. I loved the way the gun feels and the lack of weight compared to the TXG module doesn't bother me but unfortunately it proved to be unreliable. I had a number of malfunctions of the failure to eject type. Now is not the time to mess with that so back to the old configuration. These Sigs are going bye bye as soon as I get some expendable cash.
    Are the scores posted for this IDPA State match you are talking about?
     

    ECS686

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    Are the scores posted for this IDPA State match you are talking about?
    Practiscore scores and the search bar is your friend. The 2022 is listed and the night of the last day the 2023 will be posted!

     

    cedartop

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    Apr 25, 2010
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    Double Add 1 on a 3X5 for 5 reps. I am a slow learner, but I will get to a clean card cold.

    So I have heard any number of people talking about the 20 Alpha drill. The version that makes the most impact on me is from the AMU. I have heard both Daniel Horner and Julie Golob talk about it. Numbers and distances vary but a common theme seems to be 4 strings of 5 shots at 20 yards with a 2.5 par. The goal of course is 20 Alphas but 18 appears to be passing. Horner says back on the AMU they would give a new guy or gal 1,000 rounds a day and have them work on this until they could do it, often taking a few weeks. In a few weeks that would be about as many rounds on one drill/exercise as I shoot in a whole year. Must be nice. Anyway, after some experimentation, I found that 20 yards is not doable yet so I will start at 15 and go from there.

    After that work I just set up 2 IDPA targets and an 8 inch steel plate to run some mini stages. The goal here is to try and make it a changing gears type thing but because of range rules I can't set targets away from the berm so I used body on one target, head on another and then the steel plate. I would change up the order and start location as well as throwing some cover in. There is a lot you can do with this.
     

    backtrail540

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    Aug 3, 2008
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    Angola, IN
    Today's practice brought to you by the influence of Wayne Dobbs (recent episode of OFF Duty/ON Duty podcast) and MVS (post above) ;)

    On a recent episode of ODOD, Wayne discussed a few drills that he thought had value and one of them he simply called 123. I used it as a warmup. It is as simple as it sounds - 3 strings, a single shot (single head or body shot), a pair to the high percentage com, and a failure to stop. I actually did two singles, both a head and a body. So mine was 1123. No time limits etc...He treats it as a walkback drill. I ran it at 3/5/7/10 but i put a tshirt and hat on mine. The target i used was a uspsa A zone cut in half and a head box - both are 6x6. It is a decent warmup to get some work in drawing and getting acceptable hits, here with realistic aiming points other than my usual b8/3x5/8"/a zones.

    Another drill Dobbs discussed was the classic 3x3 drill (3 rounds, 3 yards, 3 seconds). A rather elementary drill by my standards but he suggested running it five times. The first is static (classic version) then twice moving each way. I chose to do one static, one with a sidestep and one with constant movement - first left then right. That made it a simple 15 rounds but you got some work in. I again just used the A zone but in half for a 6x6 box. I made the 3 second par each time but did pull one during the constant movement left. Nice drill to get beginners introduced to movement.

    3x3 five times

    After this i gave a half hearted attempt at the 20 Alpha that MVS posted above. No good. I wasn't shooting my normal gun (had to zero a Beretta that the rds screws broke on last time i had it out and just ran it for the day). My grip was bad on the round grip panels and i did not get it to track vertically very well. Also shot from concealment and with those two factors i just couldn't make the par. Absolutely ate my lunch. Not a clean run in sight. Fun challenge. I will have to try this more with my regular guns.

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    A few runs of the devil drill (6 rounds, 6 yards, 6 seconds with a reload in there) turned in a best of 3.74 with a 1.58 in battery reload, from concealment.

    After that I f'd around with a friends 43x a touch since i recently got a DSG Apollo to run it from. Decent little gun but takes more effort to shoot well and i would like better texture.
     
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