What advice do you give to a kid going off to college?

[Creedmoor]

Not to say trades aren't extremely valuable, but the phrase, "work smarter, not harder", is popular for a reason.

The economy runs on diversity. we can't all be doctors, nor can we all be plumbers.

And I will respond with, out of five children and two cousins two of us went to the Trades instead of 4 to 8 years of higher education like the rest. With that time spent in college the two of us were putting money in retirement funds, building pensions, building vacation pay and building our future. We were paid to learn.
The four that went to college will never come close to what we two have in our 401's. And the two of us are the only two that have or will have pension checks.

 

[Destro]

And I will respond with, out of five children and two cousins two of us went to the Trades instead of 4 to 8 years of higher education like the rest. With that time spent in college the two of us were putting money in retirement funds, building pensions, building vacation pay and building our future. We were paid to learn.
The four that went to college will never come close to what we two have in our 401's. And the two of us are the only two that have or will have pension checks.

Were they doctors?

 

[Creedmoor]

Were they doctors?

Two or three have at least two masters and three have doctorates.
Two are college professors, one works for a non profit and one is a business owner.

Edit,
Forgot one, one is a stay at home mom. Hasn't used her degrees for 25? years.

 

[Destro]

Two or three have at least two masters and three have doctorates.
Two are college professors, one works for a non profit and one is a business owner.

Edit,
Forgot one, one is a stay at home mom. Hasn't used her degrees for 25? years.

Sounds like their earnings (or lack that you claim) are tied to their individual choices, not simply their education choices.

If someone gets a journeyman card and leaves the workforce for 25 years, trades won't pay off for them either.

 

[HoughMade]

I have a a graduate degree. I'll just say that whatever problems the future may hold, money is unlikely to be high on the list.

There are plenty of ways to be successful in the long term, trades, professions- college, no college. The key is making well researched choices.

 

[Creedmoor]

Sounds like their earnings (or lack that you claim) are tied to their individual choices, not simply their education choices.

If someone gets a journeyman card and leaves the workforce for 25 years, trades won't pay off for them either.

Is that not called life's choices? Teach your children to make good choices.
We had 4 parents, YEAAA.
We were lucky enough to have two fathers that gave a **** and were involved with us and with our being brought up.
With our other siblings,
One can make $500K and still have zero savings, investments and retirement accounts along with creditors knocking on the door. Tenure Professors at schools like Carnegie Mellon do pretty well. Those will retire most likely a week or two after our mother passes away.
But if you live above ones income, it comes to light eventually.
One brother and I made different choices, we both made very good money and we listened to our educated Step Father and our Father that learned the hard way, we saved, we invest, and we live well below our means. With the jump start we had made a huge difference with us and our decisions. We were taught as kids, if we sold 25 bags of husked corn or a few bushels of crabs our father took a huge percentage of that cash and it was invested for us.
We were told, Pay Yourselves First Boys...

Some of our Duke Energy stock that was bought with our money for under 2 bucks a share.
I'll be 65 and my brother will be 67 next month.
And either one of us are investment money people, Its not in our wheelhouses.
I couldn't tell someone how Wall Street works if my life depends on it. But I know how to hire someone to do it for me.
Our reality is, We are really lucky guys. We had great involved Dads and have some of the most awesome friends and extended family members one could ask for in our lives.

 

[Creedmoor]

I have a a graduate degree. I'll just say that whatever problems the future may hold, money is unlikely to be high on the list.

There are plenty of ways to be successful in the long term, trades, professions- college, no college. The key is making well researched choices.

Yes, for a long time I was a jealous person of those that went and finished getting higher degrees.
About 14 years ago it finely dawned on me, my ex wanted a divorce. I though I'll be my own attorney, I can do this. So I did the Aacting Pro Se, I read and I read and I read the county and Md State website for being ones own attorney, and I googled, a lot.
I believe I won, I got full custody of our sons and she didnt ask for any of my pension.
I owned our home before the marriage.
I learned thats not my world, I try to stay in my lane after that experience.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still envious, but inside I know that's just not my world.

I truly applaud those that have the fortitude and determination to do so.

 

[snapping turtle]

As a guy with 30 years in the trades there are some valid points here. I have a nice amount in my retirement. I have had nice family health insurance and I have made good money overall. I am pretty darn good at running a crew so I have been a foreman most of my career.

Downsides 2008/2009 was horrid for work. I did the traveler stuff and was forced to be away from home and family. IBEW stands for international brotherhood of electrical workers and also know as I'm Broke Every Winter. When there is work things are good to great. When things dry up well you got to improvise.

Portable toilets (those in the trades know the horror). At times I have had to drive up to two hours each way for work. Other times I am working 4/10'in a surrounding state and the home 3 days them back at the hotel.

Let's talk shoulders feet and knees. You wear out eventually. I moved inside as mantainance for a large campus many of you visit for shows. No more portable toilets, less good insurance but overall more insurance coverage, less breakdown of shoulders, feet and knees less on the hour but more hours and 24/7/358 work needs.

 

[Creedmoor]

As a guy with 30 years in the trades there are some valid points here. I have a nice amount in my retirement. I have had nice family health insurance and I have made good money overall. I am pretty darn good at running a crew so I have been a foreman most of my career.

Downsides 2008/2009 was horrid for work. I did the traveler stuff and was forced to be away from home and family. IBEW stands for international brotherhood of electrical workers and also know as I'm Broke Every Winter. When there is work things are good to great. When things dry up well you got to improvise.

Portable toilets (those in the trades know the horror). At times I have had to drive up to two hours each way for work. Other times I am working 4/10'in a surrounding state and the home 3 days them back at the hotel.

Let's talk shoulders feet and knees. You wear out eventually. I moved inside as mantainance for a large campus many of you visit for shows. No more portable toilets, less good insurance but overall more insurance coverage, less breakdown of shoulders, feet and knees less on the hour but more hours and 24/7/358 work needs.

Like you, I was a traveler for say 80 to 85% of my elevator career. I worked 3-4 days a week on the road.
I started in downtown Baltimore for a few years then I spent the next five on the Delmarva peninsula, and then a few all over. Sometimes I drove and sometimes I flew. I did 44 or 45 States and 16 or 17 countries.
I think I might have spent a total of 4 to 5 weeks on the bench over 25 yrs or so.
That was one of the pluses of being a roadie.

With that I moved to Indiana in 93 to keep working, work on the east coast was in the crapper.

 

[johntheplinker]

Knock a chick up, kiss your college career goodbye. Daddy will need a job.
The less you say the more intelligent you sound.
Have fun but stay out of trouble.
Your mom doesn't need to know everything you do.

When my son was getting ready to start college, the biggest piece of advice I gave him- wrap it before you tap it.

 

[Creedmoor]

When my son was getting ready to start college, the biggest piece of advice I gave him- wrap it before you tap it.

My father had a condom bowl near the front door for his kids to grab.
My father always said, No illegitimate grand kids. It worked.

 

[johntheplinker]

My father had a condom bowl near the front door for his kids to grab.
My father always said, No illegitimate grand kids. It worked.

He had common sense. Kids are going to do what kids are going to do.

 

[thelefthand]

I have no first hand experience with them so I can not comment. However I do have to interact with a liberal elite so I stand by my comment. perhaps there are middle class conservatives out there that would lie and misrepresent the facts so as to effect the outcome? Again I have no experience with one so I can not comment

That wasn't really my point. I'm not disagreing with your assessment. I'm just saying that many, if not most middle class "conservative" families think that a 4 year degree (in practically an field of study) is what their children need in order to have a chance at being successful. They refuse to accept the fact that those centers for higher education are going to suck down decade after decade worth of financial resources that could have been put to much better use. For an intelligent and capable student, there are a number of skilled trades out there that will have the student in MUCH better financial position a decade after finishing HS than a 4 year BSME, and that's a really sad reality for our country to be in.

 

[thelefthand]

Not to say trades aren't extremely valuable, but the phrase, "work smarter, not harder", is popular for a reason.

The economy runs on diversity. we can't all be doctors, nor can we all be plumbers.

Anyone who thinks they can be successful by working smart and not hard is fooling themselves. At best, you have to work smarter AND harder.

Today, working smarter also means making the educational decisions that will have the best long term value. My degree today would cost close to $300k, with the average actual cost (after grants, aid, and scholarships) being around $200k. There are very few careers that can justify $200k out of pocket expenses and 4 years of a person's life. Engineering is NOT one of those professions. In contrast, a skilled trade can frequently get their education paid for, sometimes even get paid to attend class, finish their schooling in a lot less than 4 years, have a job waiting when they are done, and often start out making more than they would if they had a 4 year degree. The only drawback is that skilled trades often work long hours. What many people don't realize is that people with a 4 year degree work long hours also, often more than in skilled trades, they just don't usually get paid for the extra hours. And then there's the union pensions at 55... Seems like a good skilled trade is at least smarter than an engineering degree

 

[JettaKnight]

Anyone who thinks they can be successful by working smart and not hard is fooling themselves. At best, you have to work smarter AND harder.

Today, working smarter also means making the educational decisions that will have the best long term value. My degree today would cost close to $300k, with the average actual cost (after grants, aid, and scholarships) being around $200k. There are very few careers that can justify $200k out of pocket expenses and 4 years of a person's life. Engineering is NOT one of those professions. In contrast, a skilled trade can frequently get their education paid for, sometimes even get paid to attend class, finish their schooling in a lot less than 4 years, have a job waiting when they are done, and often start out making more than they would if they had a 4 year degree. The only drawback is that skilled trades often work long hours. What many people don't realize is that people with a 4 year degree work long hours also, often more than in skilled trades, they just don't usually get paid for the extra hours. And then there's the union pensions at 55... Seems like a good skilled trade is at least smarter than an engineering degree

We'll agree to disagree.

A Purdue engineering degree is listed as under $100k, include room and board. And if you go into the service as a officer, it can be much, much less.

What loan I did have I could have paid off quickly if it wasn't for the tax breaks getting me to keep it around like a pet. And when it came time to get my MSE, and employer paid for all of that.

The job lets me work from home, paid overtime, a minimum of four weeks vacation, every other friday is a day off, semi-flexible hours, no working outside in the heat and humidity... I call that working smarter.


Again, I will whole heartedly agree with advocating trades. And my wife who is in charge of career readiness for a large school district agrees.

I just don't like hearing, "Colleges are worthless; everyone should go into a trade!" The world needs variety, and not every person is the same. It does no good to discredit vocation paths.