Veterans receive letters from VA prohibiting ownership of firearms

[SideArmed]

People....stop the panic. This has been the law for a while. The VA cannot make a determination of competency. That is something that only a court can do upon notice and the presentation of evidence and the opportunity to rebut said evidence.

This is simply a notice of what the law is. It is not a notification that any person has been or will be deemed incompetent.

That is most certainly not how the article reads. Here are a few quotes from it, since it doesn't seem like you read it. (Emphasis added)

Currently, the VA appoints fiduciaries, often family members, to manage the pensions and disability benefits of veterans who are declared incompetent. When that happens, the department automatically enters the veteran's name in the Criminal Background Check System.

A core group of lawmakers led by Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C., has for several years wanted to prohibit the VA from submitting those names to the gun-check registry unless a judge or magistrate deems the veteran to be a danger.

They (the VA) have been submitting names to the ATF of persons NOT adjudicated mentally ill.

"All I am saying is, let them at least have their day in court if you are going to take away a fundamental right given under the Constitution," Coburn said

 

[Destro]

Mr. Irelan was never adjudicated as incompetent. The VA notified the BATFU, not a judge.

then how do you explain the fiduciary?

 

[Destro]

They (the VA) have been submitting names to the ATF of persons NOT adjudicated mentally ill.

mostly correct, they submit the names of those who are adjudicated incompetent as required under law

 

[SideArmed]

then how do you explain the fiduciary?

A fiduciary does not have to be court appointed. The VA reserves the right to choose who and if a fiduciary is needed.

eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

§ 13.55 Veterans Service Center Manager to select and appoint or recommend for appointment the person or legal entity to receive Department of Veterans Affairs benefits in a fiduciary capacity.
(a) Authority. The Veterans Service Center Manager is authorized to select and appoint (or in the case of a court-appointed fiduciary, to recommend for appointment) the person or legal entity best suited to receive Department of Veterans Affairs benefits in a fiduciary capacity for a beneficiary who is mentally ill (incompetent) or under legal disability by reason of minority or court action, and beneficiary's dependents.

Fiduciary - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

fiduciary

noun (Concise Encyclopedia)
In law, a person in a position of authority whom the law obligates to act solely on behalf of the person he or she represents and in good faith. Examples of fiduciaries are agents, executors, trustees, guardians, and officers of corporations. Unlike people in ordinary business relationships, fiduciaries may not seek personal benefit from their transactions with those they represent.

Fiduciary - Pension

VA's Fiduciary Program was established to protect Veterans and other beneficiaries who, due to injury, disease, or due to age, are unable to manage their financial affairs. VA will only determine an individual to be unable to manage his or her financial affairs after receipt of medical documentation or if a court of competent jurisdiction has already made the determination.

mostly correct, they submit the names of those who are adjudicated incompetent as required under law

Sources??

 

[fireblade]

People....stop the panic. This has been the law for a while. The VA cannot make a determination of competency. That is something that only a court can do upon notice and the presentation of evidence and the opportunity to rebut said evidence.

This is simply a notice of what the law is. It is not a notification that any person has been or will be deemed incompetent.

you are 100 % wrong ......the VA can deem you Incompetent with out a court order I help Vets all the time to fight this ....please don't give out wrong information

 

[fireblade]

you were in the service of time of injury ....there is 2 bills to reverse this in congress to make the VA get a court order to rule you Incompetent


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr577ih/pdf/BILLS-113hr577ih.pdf



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUj8ijc7G90&list=UUH5T7e1V45cOuPJRppIh1yQ&index=17

 

[fireblade]

Example one vet who had a mild TBI injury ......and was knock out for 15 min. from a IED attack in Afgan. he told the VA he's wife still does all the bills since she did it from all the past deployments ....for that comment to a VA heath provider they ruled him Incompetent.......and his name was reported and his name was on NICS.........I helped him go through all his paper work and found on judgement they gave him a 0 rating which is good and on his army medical retirement paper work they found him very able to make his own judgements so it took about 6 months for the VA to find him competent. We had them send the letter to NICS thanks to the 2007 change to the NICS his name was removed from NiCS if that law wasn't changed in 2007 ...he would have forever lost his gun right ......hows that for a thank you.....


The reason I care so much and help other vets I recovered from a TBI injury from Iraq ... I had to relearn to write and math.... am all recovered but at one time they tried to take my gun rights away but failed.....

Any vet here who needs help with something like this would be glad to help them....

 

[g+16]

This something I warned a couple of guys about a work years ago when they said they were going to apply, they scoffed. Every law is open to change depending on who is in the White House at the time.

 

[NYFelon]

Slightly off topic, but still relevant. The number of felony waivers issued has recently seen a marked uptick. So, it's alright for these folks to tote select fire rifles in the military, but can't own a handgun to defend themselves when their enlistments are up?

Whacky stuff.

 

[HoughMade]

OK- fair enough, I was inaccurate in part and I will correct what was inaccurate. Regarding VA benefits, a judge does not have to make the competency determination. However, due process must be afforded:

§3.353 Determinations of incompetency and competency.

(a) Definition of mental incompetency. A mentally incompetent person is one who because of injury or disease lacks the mental capacity to contract or to manage his or her own affairs, including disbursement of funds without limitation.

(b) Authority.

(1) Rating agencies have sole authority to make official determinations of competency and incompetency for purposes of: insurance (38 U.S.C. 1922), and, subject to §13.56 of this chapter, disbursement of benefits. Such determinations are final and binding on field stations for these purposes...

(3) If in the course of fulfilling the responsibilities assigned in paragraph (b)(2) the Veterans Service Center Manager develops evidence indicating that the beneficiary may be capable of administering the funds payable without limitation, he or she will refer that evidence to the rating agency with a statement as to his or her findings. The rating agency will consider this evidence, together with all other evidence of record, to determine whether its prior determination of incompetency should remain in effect. Reexamination may be requested as provided in §3.327(a) if necessary to properly evaluate the beneficiary’s mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.

(c) Medical opinion. Unless the medical evidence is clear, convincing and leaves no doubt as to the person’s incompetency, the rating agency will make no determination of incompetency without a definite expression regarding the question by the responsible medical authorities. Considerations of medical opinions will be in accordance with the principles in paragraph (a) of this section. Determinations relative to incompetency should be based upon all evidence of record and there should be a consistent relationship between the percentage of disability, facts relating to commitment or hospitalization and the holding of incompetency.

(d) Presumption in favor of competency. Where reasonable doubt arises regarding a beneficiary’s mental capacity to contract or to manage his or her own affairs, including the disbursement of funds without limitation, such doubt will be resolved in favor of competency (see §3.102 on reasonable doubt).

(e) Due process. Whenever it is proposed to make an incompetency determination, the beneficiary will be notified of the proposed action and of the right to a hearing as provided in §3.103. Such notice is not necessary if the beneficiary has been declared incompetent by a court of competent jurisdiction or if a guardian has been appointed for the beneficiary based upon a court finding of incompetency. If a hearing is requested it must be held prior to a rating decision of incompetency. Failure or refusal of the beneficiary after proper notice to request or cooperate in such a hearing will not preclude a rating decision based on the evidence of record. (Authority: 38 U.S.C. 501(a))

(someone on INGO admitting a mistake....will wonders never cease?)

 

[SideArmed]

(someone on INGO admitting a mistake....will wonders never cease?)

I think I felt the ground get a little colder!

 

[fireblade]

yep a sign of a great person is one who admit his mistakes .... AM here to tell you there due process sucks from what I have seen Helping other vets .....one really bad case ...was a man who was 100% rating could not work loss of arms and a TBI injury ....they would not release any of his back money for that rating, this man was behind 4 months on his car bills 2 on his home was in a bad shape .....

They told him he could appeal there administration decision but they would hold all the back pay money until it was final which could take another 6 month ....so this vet agreed .....so he wouldn't be homeless, they released his back pay which was a lot of money BTW .....but he lost his second amendment rights in 30 days of that his name was on NICS .....it took a year and half .....but we and the great help of others got his rights back again ...it all started from a VA heath care provider professional opinion....that did not follow the facts or his abilities....

 

[dlbrown75]

Eleminating the opposition is a good way to win the game.
Tinfoil hat time:
Disarm the resistance, stack the odds in your favor.....
DHS stocking up, disarming Americans every chance they get.
I'm not drawing conclusions here but IF I were playing chess or planning out a strategy I'd be setting up my pieces to win the game.
Put all the pieces in place then make your move.

I dont think it can be summed up any better than this.

 

[Destro]

.

 

[SideArmed]

what does that have to do with anything? why does it matter who appoints the fiduciary? The court or the VA? it really does not matter, what matters is that you GET a fiduciary when your found incompetent

Yes, but you (and others) were arguing the point that the VA ONLY submits names of persons who have been adjudicated as incompetent. But it has been clearly shown and proven that they don't only submit those names, but the names of anyone they apoint a fiduciary over. Which is in contradiction with what the law says.

Do you also believe that the VA should have the power to strip any other rights away from people?

For reference:

ad·ju·di·cate

verb \ə-ˈjü-di-ˌkāt\
ad·ju·di·cat·edad·ju·di·cat·ing

Definition of ADJUDICATE

transitive verb
: to settle judicially

intransitive verb
: to act as judge

 

[mrjarrell]

Yes, but you (and others) were arguing the point that the VA ONLY submits names of persons who have been adjudicated as incompetent. But it has been clearly shown and proven that they don't only submit those names, but the names of anyone they apoint a fiduciary over. Which is in contradiction with what the law says.

Do you also believe that the VA should have the power to strip any other rights away from people?

For reference:

Exactly. Mr Irelan, in the article I posted was never adjudicated incompetent. The VA did everything on its own, there was no judicial process.

 

[djenks11]

This will just cause alot of vets that need help to not go and get help. Sad times we are in

 

[mistap]

The reason I care so much and help other vets I recovered from a TBI injury from Iraq ... I had to relearn to write and math.... am all recovered but at one time they tried to take my gun rights away but failed.....

Any vet here who needs help with something like this would be glad to help them....

You, sir, are my hero for today!

 

[Vic_Mackey]

Example one vet who had a mild TBI injury ......and was knock out for 15 min. from a IED attack in Afgan. he told the VA he's wife still does all the bills since she did it from all the past deployments ....for that comment to a VA heath provider they ruled him Incompetent.......and his name was reported and his name was on NICS.........I helped him go through all his paper work and found on judgement they gave him a 0 rating which is good and on his army medical retirement paper work they found him very able to make his own judgements so it took about 6 months for the VA to find him competent. We had them send the letter to NICS thanks to the 2007 change to the NICS his name was removed from NiCS if that law wasn't changed in 2007 ...he would have forever lost his gun right ......hows that for a thank you.....


The reason I care so much and help other vets I recovered from a TBI injury from Iraq ... I had to relearn to write and math.... am all recovered but at one time they tried to take my gun rights away but failed.....

Any vet here who needs help with something like this would be glad to help them....

Vet rep inbound!

I was extremely paranoid about filing my claims, especially my PTSD claim, in 08 for this very reason. I even asked them point blank and told them I would not be disarmed, and they said unless I felt I shouldn't have them then I had nothing to worry about. I have been able to walk in and out of stores with my new toys without issue.

HOWEVER, the day that retard @_/&$$=+)&&!$$// shot up the elementary school I had a psych appointment and told the shrink my concerns about mental healthcare and gun ownership. She said I was the umpteenth very to mention it and she said everyone was upset to think about losing them. She told me she had no reason to believe that would happen unless someone is declared incompetent, and knowing myself and quite a few vets, it's easy to work the system. If you say the wrong thing you could easily wind up poo creek without a paddle. I lost my marriage, several jobs, friends, and almost my house thanks to PTSD issues, but I still have my rights because I said the right things. If they come for mine I'll have a hard time picking between a check and free healthcare for life, or withdrawing my claims and struggling to survive, just to have my guns for an indeterminate amount of time (ie, possible weapons bans). Lucky for me, I have very few sales receipts on the books hehehe.

And to answer someone's question, yes, there is a paycheck with VA compensation. A very sizable one in some cases, which IMO should be afforded any combat veteran.

 

[braggracing]

This will just cause alot of vets that need help to not go and get help. Sad times we are in

My thoughts exactly and I'll bet most would be cleared to return to combat to protect the politicians asses just not cleared to protect themselves and their families!