Untrained firearms owners

[cedartop]

Honestly, I am not a firearms instructor, nor will I ever be, but in the "beginner" level classes I took NONE of them taught me to be a better shooter nor did they really promise to. They all pretty much covered safety and that was it. That isn't going to attract someone who knows it all already (thinks they do I mean). I think one angle is a class like "introduction to competition shooting" or the like. A lot of it is safety, but it is more likely to entice the gun owner with the hook that he is going to learn to compete. What gun owner who can shoot a 14" group at 10 yards isn't ready for competition!?! lol

I think there has to be a way to bring in firearm owners with a promise of more than "How to not shoot yourself or someone else accidentally". Maybe a hook could be used like, "Fundamentals of firearms safety and improving marksmanship". I am still surprised by this, but I have taken quite a few handgun classes for beginner to intermediate shooters and they never covered proper trigger control and working the reset OR proper focus on the front sight. I had to read a book to get a decent understanding of those two aspects, which improved my shooting more than any class I took. Almost all the classes covered grip, but I can still remember the day I FINALLY understood front sight focus and what it means. My groups instantly started to shrink.

I am sorry to hear this but IME this is not and should not be the standard. I have been to a number of classes and all that were not FOF or strictly tactics classes worked on making the students better shooters, with a big focus on the two things you mention. As an example, all Tom Givens classes strive to make you a better shooter, even his instructor classes. He actually thinks that an Instructor should be able to perform, not just teach.

Another example would be the last handgun class I taught. At the beginning of class I had the students shoot "the Test" (Vickers/Hackathorn 10-10-10 test), all of them failed. We shot it again at towards the end of class, 3 of the 6 passed and the others made big improvements. All of these students left with not only new information, but new ideas on how to make themselves better shooters IF they want to.

As I have stated before, I think handgun training should be mandatory for those who carry, but not Government mandated. The people carrying should be responsible enough and in such awe of the power of life and death that they are giving themselves every time that they strap that gun on that they should be compelled to seek out training. Of course I realize this is not how the world works.

 

[Coach]

I'm always looking for training opportunities, but not everyone wants training for carrying a 9mm or larger. I see training courses offered in Indiana that only accept people with 9mm or larger handgun and a holster. I cannot carry to, at, or from work so my carry opportunities are limited and outside of work my time is mostly at home. I would like to see courses that accept the use of a .380 or .22lr handgun, rifle, or shotgun for a home defense situation.

Private instruction is always and option for training.

 

[2A_Tom]

I just had an Idea, Is there a way to put a class online that is pay per view. I am not talking about shooting, but like Guys Indiana law course or Mindset type training?

It is difficult to get to Indy, but I would pay to take Guy's Law course online in a heart beat.

Earlier I stated that I didn't know of any trainers in NWI one reason is I do not see the blue names. I Understand INGO gives a big break to trainers foe Advertiser status. It could give them a lift from higher visibility.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I do not want the Gov. any deeper in any of this at any level. They have proven that nothing they do is done correctly. Nothing.

You and your observations of decades of conduct and behavior! .gov is really good at creating problems, assigning blame on others and demanding more money to fix the problem they created in the first place! OK that's not a good thing...

 

[2A_Tom]

You and your observations of melinia of conduct and behavior! .gov is really good at creating problems, assigning blame on others and demanding more money to fix the problem they created in the first place! OK that's not a good thing...

FTFY

 

[jkdbjj]

Honestly, I am not a firearms instructor, nor will I ever be, but in the "beginner" level classes I took NONE of them taught me to be a better shooter nor did they really promise to. They all pretty much covered safety and that was it. That isn't going to attract someone who knows it all already (thinks they do I mean). I think one angle is a class like "introduction to competition shooting" or the like. A lot of it is safety, but it is more likely to entice the gun owner with the hook that he is going to learn to compete. What gun owner who can shoot a 14" group at 10 yards isn't ready for competition!?! lol

I think there has to be a way to bring in firearm owners with a promise of more than "How to not shoot yourself or someone else accidentally". Maybe a hook could be used like, "Fundamentals of firearms safety and improving marksmanship". I am still surprised by this, but I have taken quite a few handgun classes for beginner to intermediate shooters and they never covered proper trigger control and working the reset OR proper focus on the front sight. I had to read a book to get a decent understanding of those two aspects, which improved my shooting more than any class I took. Almost all the classes covered grip, but I can still remember the day I FINALLY understood front sight focus and what it means. My groups instantly started to shrink.

It is possible that the instructor you took the classes from did not understand proper trigger control and front sight focus?

People want to believe that every lawyer understands the laws of self defense (they don't), every martial arts instructor can teach you how to save yourself in a street fight (they can't), and that every firearms instructor understands everything about shooting a firearm accurately and safely (they don't). BUT, the good news is, there are plenty of instructors out there that are high quality people and very knowledgeable about their art. Once you find the instructor that fits your needs---then the hard part starts---proper practice and more practice and more practice. This endeavor is not fixed by a weekend class, or by flying somewhere and studying under a big name for a week or even 3. Like anything, it takes a solid foundation and then much work on our part.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm always looking for training opportunities, but not everyone wants training for carrying a 9mm or larger. I see training courses offered in Indiana that only accept people with 9mm or larger handgun and a holster. I cannot carry to, at, or from work so my carry opportunities are limited and outside of work my time is mostly at home. I would like to see courses that accept the use of a .380 or .22lr handgun, rifle, or shotgun for a home defense situation.

My classes have no caliber requirement. Of course, they aren't fundamentals of shooting classes, either.

 

[Vigilant]

The answer is simple, and I can't believe no one has suggested it yet. Mandatory military training and 2 years service after training. After that, at least some mandatory reserve obligation time like 8 years.

Thats next to useless as well. Unless you are in a Combat Arms, LE/Sec, or are currently deploying, the firearms training the average soldier gets is very basic. And again, unless in one of the aforementioned categories, you won’t fire more than the minimum qual rounds per year for your entire time of service.

 

[Spike_351]

My classes have no caliber requirement. Of course, they aren't fundamentals of shooting classes, either.

And exactly what do your classes entail if you don't mind me asking? If I can figure out a good time and take some vacation time off I wouldn't mind attending. I've not yet had the luxury of taking any training classes due to my 12hr a day 7 day a week work schedule. Any time off I've had that I could practice in has had limited space (or safety concerns) to practice anything other than small amounts of moving and shooting or basic target practice. I firmly believe no matter how much I know or how skilled I may or may not be, there is always more to learn.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And exactly what do your classes entail if you don't mind me asking? If I can figure out a good time and take some vacation time off I wouldn't mind attending. I've not yet had the luxury of taking any training classes due to my 12hr a day 7 day a week work schedule. Any time off I've had that I could practice in has had limited space (or safety concerns) to practice anything other than small amounts of moving and shooting or basic target practice. I firmly believe no matter how much I know or how skilled I may or may not be, there is always more to learn.

This is the link to the next class:

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...e-concepts-double-header-april-28-2018-a.html

and a review from a recent student: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...ncepts-level-1-2-riley-conservation-club.html

 

[Turf Doctor]

No Thanks, I know How To Shoot

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/no-thanks-know-shoot/

 

[Coach]

No Thanks, I know How To Shoot

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/no-thanks-know-shoot/

I think that article explains why many don't take classes and why they don't shoot any type of competition. They have convinced themselves that they shoot well and the score sheet will say otherwise. Instead of understanding that they need to improve they buy another gun, watch some youtube and make a few posts about how a .22 is great carry gun and sit back and bask in their greatness.

 

[cedartop]

No Thanks, I know How To Shoot

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/no-thanks-know-shoot/

This part was gold.

First, I asked everyone in the room to close their eyes. I then asked everyone in the room to raise their hand if they were “an above average driver … in other words, better than most people.” I asked that those who had their hands up to keep them there, and for everyone to open their eyes and look around the room.
About half the women had their hands up. But EVERY SINGLE MALE in the room, regardless of age or ethnic background, had his hand raised! I then commented that, if this were a room full of professional race drivers, they could be right; they all were very likely “better than most people” when it came to driving. But given the diverse make-up of the people in that particular room, I suggested that even statistically, at least half of them were either lying or just plain wrong. There was a lot of laughter, but they got the point.

 

[Coach]

Where have all the real gunmen gone?

 

[churchmouse]

Where have all the real gunmen gone?

The Marlboro man road over the hill into the sunset long ago.

 

[Thor]

The Marlboro man road over the hill into the sunset long ago.

Well, the Marlboro man apparently knew how to rope and put up fences but I don't think I've ever seen him with a firearm. Probably for the best based on the actual shooting done at the OK Corral - lots of bullets hitting things they weren't intended for there.

 

[churchmouse]

Well, the Marlboro man apparently knew how to rope and put up fences but I don't think I've ever seen him with a firearm. Probably for the best based on the actual shooting done at the OK Corral - lots of bullets hitting things they weren't intended for there.

Good point but just an analogy to the current state of being a man.

 

[NHT3]

What I've observed after about 100 hours on Point Blank's range as RSO. It's literally the blind leading the blind. A group comes in with their "expert" and the expert instructs them so everyone in the group is now trained. Possibly 1 out of 50 of the "experts" appear to have enough knowledge to instruct anyone. I've had the experts call me to clear jams and request band-aids for their "students" injured thumbs. One guy even chewed me out because we ran out of band-aids. He needed a second one because he knocked the first one I gave him off with the slide. I offered to show him proper grip to solve the problem and he got angry and told me he knew what the problem was??
I've heard, grip is not important, 1911s are the most accurate pistols you can buy, always lock your elbows, just point and shoot, ignore the sights and one of my favorites, "Glocks don't have safeties" at least 20 times. I could go on but you get the idea. Free training from Uncle Fred is usually worth what you pay for it.
Only person I've come close to tossing out was a LEO, Federal I believe. He took offense at me chastising him for pointing an M&P at one of his students while trying to explain how to run the slide to another of his students. Who ever said "you can't have a circus without clowns" knew what he was talking about.
I thank God that so far the bloodshed has been limited to thumbs.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member, [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public”

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]

 

[rvb]

the blind leading the blind.

A friend of mine from HS had photos on FB from her weekend concealed carry course in OH. ok, cool and good for her! then I scrolled through some of the photos. ugh. guns out in a living room / class environment. people getting swept with real guns while they apparently learned to handle their guns. barely any backstop for the live fire. some "company" with a three letter acronym (too lazy to get my phone out to look it up).

I just shuddered and kept scrolling...
I wanted to say she should ask for her money back...

-rvb

 

[stoneytoney]

Going to the range is alright, but training classes let you do more than the typical range drills i believe. moving and shooting, drawing from the holster, moving in pairs, etc. Especially outdoor training classes. I'm starting from the bottom and working my way up to the moving in pairs and etc...I just like shooting guns, when it comes down to it. And if i'm learning while I'm shooting (yes every time you pick your gun up, you should learn something or however that goes) that's a Plus. Even if I had to pay extra to do out of the ordinary indoor gun range shooting.

I do admit I am kind of intimidated about the whole competition side, but looking at articles and videos everyday to get into it. The GSSF league at Indy Arms and the Carry League at Parabellum will probably be my first two competitions.