Trump 2024 ???

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm not a mind reader and I wasn't there, so I can't say for certain

I am critical of others herein who will endlessly go with their opinion of why something was or was not done by Trump, as if they actually knew, and driven mostly on their animosity towards him

And whenever I try to come up with a rational reason why something might have been done a particular way (because I don't feel that Trump can just be dismissed as an idiot, a narcissist grifter yada yada) at best I'm told I'm just speculating or I have to sit through lectures on how 'awktually, if you looked at all sides of the issue ...' [insert Trump or Bug criticism here, or both]

Even your own stipulation 'without excuses' is prejudiced and subjective. When the game stops being a struggle session and players really want to explore possible reasons that don't involve capitulation to their favorite narrative, maybe I'll play

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It's really simple, no mind reading necessary, the same as anything throughout life:

Those things that you devote time and energy to, and do first... are a priority.

Those that you don't, aren't.

Draining the swamp was not a priority for Trump.

Approaching the election, it was a missing assignment... even though he'd pledged it would be a day one priority.

By his own promises, it was a day one, first 100 days priority. He was 3 1/2 years late turning in his assignment.

 

[jamil]

No one is perfect. Everyone disappoints in some way. Those things should not be so hard to admit. It’s not just an opinion that Trump didn’t drain the swamp. It’s an observation. It’s a logical conclusion to say it wasn’t a priority. That’s not an opinion.

That doesn’t have to be a deal breaker. Instead of fighting reality so hard, why not just say, yeah, I wish Trump would have made that a higher priority? I think he will this time. Every politician disappoints in some way. No one is perfect.

 

[KLB]

I wasn't around for the McCain stuff. I sure was for Romney. As I recall I called him Obamney.

No way. You obviously had nothing but praise for him. He had done no wrong, and you gave you your full support.

 

[KG1]

I believe the only thing that has relevance now is that pretty much all of the current GOP candidates have been scrutinized here for their faults by a majority.

 

[jamil]

No way. You obviously had nothing but praise for him. He had done no wrong, and you gave you your full support.

Eh. I held my nose ultimately, which is the same as enthusiastically voting for him. Ironically, holding my nose to vote for Trump is virtually not voting for him at all.

 

[KG1]

Eh. I held my nose ultimately, which is the same as enthusiastically voting for him. Ironically, holding my nose to vote for Trump is virtually not voting for him at all.

If you didn't get out and canvass for McCain and Romney, then your vote was meaningless.

 

[KG1]

I'm just wondering how many here that held their nose and voted for either McCain, Romney or Bush went out and actively canvassed for them in the general election? I'm pretty sure most everyone here weren't that enthusiastic about any of them. I wasn't.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm just wondering how many here that held their nose and voted for either McCain, Romney or Bush went out and actively canvassed for them in the general election? I'm pretty sure most everyone here weren't that enthusiastic about any of them.

I supported none of the above in primaries but did support them in the general elections.

 

[KG1]

I supported none of the above in primaries but did support them in the general elections.

As in "support" did you just vote for them? We're being told that "support" means you have to do more than just vote for them. It means that you have to actively canvass for them.

 

[Ingomike]

As in "support" did you just vote for them? We're being told that "support" means you have to do more than just vote for them. It means that you have to actively canvass for them.

Did more, volunteered and have money…

 

[KG1]

Did more, volunteered and have money…

I did more as well. I've encouraged many others to vote for the GOP nominee even though they weren't my primary choice over Gore, Kerry, Obama, HRC and Biden in those respective general elections.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm just wondering how many here that held their nose and voted for either McCain, Romney or Bush went out and actively canvassed for them in the general election? I'm pretty sure most everyone here weren't that enthusiastic about any of them. I wasn't.

Does wearing one of these count?




Them: Are you a Nationals fan?
Me: No.

 

[jamil]

If you didn't get out and canvass for McCain and Romney, then your vote was meaningless.

Oh no. That's the standard for Trump. The standard for McClinton or Obomney, is that even if I didn't get out and canvass for them, but voted for them, it means I wholeheartedly, enthusiastically supported as "my guy" even if I had to hold my nose.

 

[jamil]

I'm just wondering how many here that held their nose and voted for either McCain, Romney or Bush went out and actively canvassed for them in the general election? I'm pretty sure most everyone here weren't that enthusiastic about any of them. I wasn't.

I think there was some enthusiasm on the right for Bush. Especially among Evangelicals. Maybe not as much for the second term. But I think no one was excited about McCain or Romney.

 

[BugI02]

No one is perfect. Everyone disappoints in some way. Those things should not be so hard to admit. It’s not just an opinion that Trump didn’t drain the swamp. It’s an observation. It’s a logical conclusion to say it wasn’t a priority. That’s not an opinion.

That doesn’t have to be a deal breaker. Instead of fighting reality so hard, why not just say, yeah, I wish Trump would have made that a higher priority? I think he will this time. Every politician disappoints in some way. No one is perfect.

The thing is, by promoting Schedule F - even as too little, too late - Trump did more to actually drain the swamp than anyone since Reagan ****canned the air traffic controllers who sought to hold the US transportation system hostage to their whims in the manner of their European counterparts

But he gets no credit, even for a good idea that others will likely try to copy, because he didn't get it done or make it stick. No consideration is given to any other concurrent events or concerns that might had lead him to put off introducing it earlier and faux certainty is the order of the day despite there being vast quantities of considerations a president might have, especially a persecuted one, that ordinary people will not be privy to - oversimplification is the order of the day. I guess the continuum only applies when you like the candidate or policy

The same applies to things like the wall and border security, he 'went to the wall' for that promise, repurposed some monies he could control to get it started and by engineering remain in Mexico suppressed illegal immigration greatly - but real successes lead to the predictable 'he didn't get it done'

But OMG, apply the same standards to DeSantis and his 'accomplishments' and its 'Get off the streets!'

Good thing none of you have a guy or it would probably be even worse

 

[BugI02]

No way. You obviously had nothing but praise for him. He had done no wrong, and you gave you your full support.

If the question of your level of support was not accepted by a court for review, even if only for reasons of standing, then it is whatever I say it was - INGO rules, Kraken style

 

[jamil]

I supported none of the above in primaries but did support them in the general elections.

Well, in 2000 there was Bush, McCain, and Alan Keys and maybe a few long shots. I was not excited at all about those choices. I did not vote in the Primaries. And I did not vote in the general election because I had just moved out of state and had not yet met the residency requirement in that state.

In 2004 Bush was uncontested. I voted 3rd party in that election because Bush turned out to be a nutty Neocon ********er. So I actually had never voted for G W Bush, but would have held my nose and voted for him against Al Gore the Climate Whore in 2000 if I could have voted.

In 2008 it was McCain, Romney, Huckabee, Ron Paul, and maybe some long shots. I didn't vote in that primary either. They all sucked. In 2008 I held my nose for McCain.

In 2012, it was Romney, Santorum, Ron Paul, and Newt. I think I voted for Ron Paul maybe? And then I held my nose to vote for Romney in the general election.

 

[jamil]

The thing is, by promoting Schedule F - even as too little, too late - Trump did more to actually drain the swamp than anyone since Reagan ****canned the air traffic controllers who sought to hold the US transportation system hostage to their whims in the manner of their European counterparts

But he gets no credit, even for a good idea that others will likely try to copy, because he didn't get it done or make it stick. No consideration is given to any other concurrent events or concerns that might had lead him to put off introducing it earlier and faux certainty is the order of the day despite there being vast quantities of considerations a president might have, especially a persecuted one, that ordinary people will not be privy to - oversimplification is the order of the day. I guess the continuum only applies when you like the candidate or policy

The same applies to things like the wall and border security, he 'went to the wall' for that promise, repurposed some monies he could control to get it started and by engineering remain in Mexico suppressed illegal immigration greatly - but real successes lead to the predictable 'he didn't get it done'

But OMG, apply the same standards to DeSantis and his 'accomplishments' and its 'Get off the streets!'

Good thing none of you have a guy or it would probably be even worse

Hey, Trump was really the first to even say it needed drained so he's ahead of the game there. I think we've broached this topic before and I gave him credit for that then.

But, he made it a campaign promise. It's one that Trump kinda adopted because crowds started shouting it. And that's what makes Trump a populist. I don't think that's a bad thing, per se. But in terms of campaign promises, he made it that, and he did not deliver. It doesn't matter that others didn't deliver. They never even knew to promise it.

No candidate gets a pass for non-deliveries. Because of this or that doesn't matter. Zero swamp got drained. And I don't know why this point has to be fought so hard. It's true, it's not subjective, it's not opinion. It's also not a deal breaker. It's fine to just acknowledge what's true and say, yeah, he didn't get that done. It's disappointing. He'll get it this time if he's elected. I mean, what's wrong with that?

As far as the wall, I don't give a **** about that. I don't think it's all that impactful anyway. And you and I have gone around the horn on that point too. I'm also not fond of the way he re-appropriated the money. That's congress's job. But the wall is a campaign promise undelivered regardless what waste that may have been.

And about having a guy. Again I think that to a person who can have a guy, the concept of not having one is foreign. Explained this way, it's a sort of heterodoxy of issues I care about not a team I want to join. I am an issues voter, not a-coalesce-around-a-leader voter. The extent to which I'm tribal is the extent to which the issues/policies I care about overlap the people in the race.

So far DeSantis might be the person fits best, we'll see. But if someone else is proven to fit better, I'd drop DeSantis like a used rubber. My loyalty is to my family and our values. Whoever overlaps best is who I'm voting for. So not my guy. Zero loyalty. Free to criticize where needed.

 

[jamil]

If the question of your level of support was not accepted by a court for review, even if only for reasons of standing, then it is whatever I say it was - INGO rules, Kraken style

 

[BugI02]

Perhaps "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence' would suit you better?