Thinking about getting an FFL 07

[Manatee]

Not a question of macho. I know what I'm about and have not had a problem in over a dozen years. Plus most of my work is on competition firearms and competitors are usually pretty good at spotting a problem quickly and getting it fixed. I had a 73 Winchester come into the shop that had turned the bolt into spaghetti because "somone" (the owner claimed it was a relative) put a 44 mag in a 44-40. Plus, I'm not one to disable safeties (which is common in the CAS world).

Ammo manufacturers have greater liability.

 

[ghitch75]

Kinda my thoughts too,Solsberry is pretty quiet and my work shop/shed is surrounded on all sides by family members with guns.I might reinforce the walls with metal or something.

someone brings you a gun something goes wrong with gun......someone gets hurt or worst......you get put with there bills..... insurance and you don't loose everything you own

 

[IndyGunworks]

And an 01 would allow me to deal,do transfers,and gunsmith for customers?What about insurance and things like that?

Gunsmith on customer supplied receivers... If you provide the receiver and alter the weapon in any way IE add a barrel, or change a barrel ect ect. then you have technically manufactured and will need to be an 07 and charge 11 percent excise tax on top of 7 percent sales tax. As long as you are not providing the firearm then you are doing the modification on the customers behalf and an 01 will work.

Otherwise the rest of your comment is true. and the ATF will not require insurance. that's on you.

I did create an LLC before I started mine. I did it on Indiana's govt website and it cost me like 26 bucks. took about an hour. that gave me an EIN... The ein allowed me to get a retail merchants certificate. I had to file minutes once a year to the state for the LLC, and fill out a tax form for the business once a year. I filed the income of the business under my personal SS# as a sole proprietorship.

None of its super hard to do, as long as you are good at wading through lots of information to find whats pertinent to you, and understanding that information. Judging by you not being able to research and find out the difference between an 01 and an 07 I think you have a tough row to hoe. I did pretty well for myself but got tired of charging peanuts to fix old guns, and customers that wanted it done RIGHT NOW. Mostly, I got tired of shady people showing up at my house and when my son was about to be born I let the license expire for the previous reason.

I did get inspected randomly by the ATF one time. young guy walked up to my garage with his hand behind his back and a backpack on... if he wouldn't have been as well dressed as he was I would have drawn on him for sure.... had my hand on my gun on my work bench as it was. he was there about 4 hours and looked at every I and every T. got dinged on one gunsmithing job I had not logged back out yet, and one 4473 that I had not signed and dated. no fines or even a follow up, but I was pretty nervous.

Would I do it again? Yes, but not on top of being a full time fireman. I think I have a future in it when I retire though. I was working almost 100 hours a week between the fire department, the gun shop, and my own business. 3 years of that wore me out pretty good and I don't regret shutting it down.

 

[Manatee]

someone brings you a gun something goes wrong with gun......someone gets hurt or worst......you get put with there bills..... insurance and you don't loose everything you own

That's when you have to know your customer and be confident in the job you are doing and the purpose the firearm will be used for. There are many types of projects (cutting forcing cones, threading chokes, timing revolvers, for example) that have little liability, but if you don't do it right, you'll probably owe the guy a new barrel or cylinder. Setting sears is potentially a hazardous engagement. You really have to know what you are about. (I won't mention how many firearms come from Italy with the sear set at a negative angle and held in place by excessive spring pressure).

But, as I said, they need to prove that what you did is a direct cause of the failure. I've rarely seen negligence from a professional smith, but I have seen abortions from shade tree madeover engineers and mechanics.

The biggest lesson to learn as a smith is that you have to learn to say "no" and refuse some work.

 

[Ruffnek]

I figured out the difference between an 01 and an 07 as it pertains to me.I'm just wondering if it'd be worth it by the time you factor in the FFL,retail license,tax info,etc. because the clientele isn't large.

 

[IndyGunworks]

For all purposes considered the 07 gives you more future flexibility at the expense of a bit more paperwork IF you don't actually manufacture. If you do manufacture then that's a whole nother ball of wax that I cant help you with.

 

[Ruffnek]

I don't intend to modify for sale because that narrows the market more so than if I sold the gun stock,and then said "I can do X service on that for you."

 

[IndyGunworks]

IF YOU OWN THE RECIEVER an do "x" to it, then the customer pays you. that's manufacturing. Doesn't matter if you think you are only selling the x's that the customer wanted.

The way to handle it w/out "manufacturing" is to have the customer bring you the gun, let them sell the take off parts and you are adding new parts to their gun.

 

[Ruffnek]

That's what I'm saying,sell them the kit and receiver (we'll use an AR for example) and then turn around and log it in for modification as their gun.

 

[IndyGunworks]

That's what I'm saying,sell them the kit and receiver (we'll use an AR for example) and then turn around and log it in for modification as their gun.

I don't think you will find a lot of work "building" ars... Maybe a few handguard installs here and there.

 

[IndyGunworks]

You WILL waste ALOT of time on the phone talking about AR builds though... and once you put the pen to paper, 99 percent of them will walk away.

 

[SSGSAD]

That's when you have to know your customer and be confident in the job you are doing and the purpose the firearm will be used for. There are many types of projects (cutting forcing cones, threading chokes, timing revolvers, for example) that have little liability, but if you don't do it right, you'll probably owe the guy a new barrel or cylinder. Setting sears is potentially a hazardous engagement. You really have to know what you are about. (I won't mention how many firearms come from Italy with the sear set at a negative angle and held in place by excessive spring pressure).

But, as I said, they need to prove that what you did is a direct cause of the failure. I've rarely seen negligence from a professional smith, but I have seen abortions from shade tree madeover engineers and mechanics.

The biggest lesson to learn as a smith is that you have to learn to say "no" and refuse some work.

^^^^^ THIS is GOOD ADVICE ^^^^^

 

[Manatee]

There is also a provision for "manufacturing" a small number of firearms. I don't remember the number.

 

[Ruffnek]

I don't think you will find a lot of work "building" ars... Maybe a few handguard installs here and there.

That was just the example that best illustrated my point.Manufacturing basically covers ANY alteration made BEFORE the sale.After the sale,it's just gunsmithing.

 

[Ruffnek]

There is also a provision for "manufacturing" a small number of firearms. I don't remember the number.

Think I've read something like less than 50.

 

[Manatee]

I thought it was smaller…..less than a dozen?

 

[Ruffnek]

No matter,I wouldn't like flirting with the wrath of the ATF.

 

[Manatee]

Practically speaking, it's better to wait on the customer before the mods. It's hard enough to select the right firearms for inventory. Mods limit your customer base even further.

 

[96ramair]

Would your home owners insurance cover if someone got hurt while shopping in your shop??

 

[menzzer37]

All 07s must pay ITAR. It's the law, doesn't matter if you export. $2250 a year. Ask me how I know