The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[Ingomike]

The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build.

This is the BIGGEST joke posted on INGO this month.

 

[Ingomike]

It's the same thing. By forcing mfgrs to be held to impossible CAFE standards is de-facto coercion.

You think the auto mfgrs would be doing this if not for the (CAFE) stick the .gov is using against them?

And by Kalifornia & a half dozen states banning ICE vehicles by some arbitrary date isn't "forcing"?

They also forget that the government bailed out GM, (stands for government motors) and whatever they call that Fiat group. The government has additional leverage over them…

 

[JCSR]

This is the BIGGEST joke posted on INGO this month.

Mods please move it to the "Joke of the Day" thread.

 

[Leadeye]

Yep. It also tells me there is a good chance the driver is a liberal moron

"Driving a Tesla does not send the message that you care about global warming or the environment. It tells people you're a special kind of wealthy and trendy, just as many luxury cars always have."

I like feeling special.

 

[indyblue]

Camera, Corvette, etc

The Camaro (as we know it - it will be an EV or hybrid and will be a Camaro in name only) is gone after '24. The Dodges are going away, and the Corvette will be a hybrid then full electric, whether we like it or not. They are not being discontinued due to low demand - hell look at the prices the last Challengers and Z06's are bringing in over MSRP, they're going electric and I know many auto enthusiasts that will not buy them (corvetteforum members already mourning for the 'vette). And with the dismal sales of EV's that only spells doom for the car companies and customers.

 

[Kdf101]

I wish I could get the same government subsidy for a new truck or Jeep. I am not anti EV, I just don’t see them doing what i need them to do and not leaving me stranded, and broke. If I could get an EV that I could afford, and I thought would last 10-15 years li,e my other vehicles would, I would buy one, but I just don’t see that. Probably someday they will,work, just not this year.

 

[Ingomike]

Auto manufacturers are not going to do something unless it's in their best interest or unless they think they can profit.

Or think they can get the cash from the government…

 

[ajeandy]

You could drive a Honda Civic for 20 years cheaper than owning a Tesla 5 years.

I would have to do the math but they are in different vehicle segments. The cheapest Tesla is the model 3 and it's most similar to the accord which is a lot more expensive than the civic.

You should be comparing it to the accord in that regard. Tesla's next gen car will likely be in the same vehicle segment as the civic.

Regarding your comparison it's pretty hard to gauge that seeing as Tesla has not even been manufacturing vehicles for 20 years but if you only base it on average maintenance costs here is what I can find....
This is what I found on costs of repairs for a civic...5 years

2021 Honda Civic: True Cost to Own | Edmunds

View detailed ownership costs for the 2021 Honda Civic on Edmunds. The 2021 Honda Civic True Cost to Own includes depreciation, taxes, financing, fuel costs, insurance, maintenance, repairs, and tax credits over the span of 5 years of ownership.

www.edmunds.com

Touring 2021 Civic: $24,019.00 (you can get cheaper models)
Maintenance: 4,664
Repairs: 1,470
Gas/fuel: $5142

Multiply all that out by 4 despite the numbers would get exponentially higher over 20 years....

Touring 2021 Civic: $24,019.00 (you can get cheaper models)

Maintenance: 18,656
Repairs: 5,880
Gas/fuel: $20,568
Total: 69123 (seems high) let's cut the maintenance costs in half and see
Total w/ maintenance costs cut in half: 59795

I'm estimating fuel at $3 a gallon, 35 miles to the gallon, 12,000 miles a year, that's pretty generous on the mpg I think. Also assuming fuel doesn't increase in price in 20 years (it does by a lot)


A reference point: https://caredge.com/tesla/model-3/maintenance
Tesla Model 3 cost (current): 38,990
Federal Tax Credit : -7500
Maintenance / Repairs: 10 year: 3,587 (This seems low to me, a full set of tires is about $1,000) lets double it, then double it again.
Maintenance doubled (10 years): $7174
Fuel / Energy cost (10 years): $6,600

I used 12,000 miles a year, 240 miles / 60 KwH battery (I underrated vs the rated range) that's about 4 miles per kwh of energy. 11 cents per kwh.

20 year figures

Tesla Model 3 cost (current): 38,990
Federal Tax Credit : -7500
Maintenance / Repairs: 20 year: 3,587 (This seems low to me, a full set of tires is about $1,000) lets double it, then double it again.
Maintenance doubled (10 years): $14348
Fuel / Energy cost (20 years): $13,200
Total cost 20 years: $59038

Wild that they came out almost identical. This is all hypothetical and I reduced some of the numbers on the civic and increased some of the costs on the model 3, but I will disagree with your statement about the total cost of ownership.

 

[ajeandy]

For someone who has owned so many EVs and is pretty active in this thread, you seem to have missed some major news on the subject, including in the passenger car and commercial vehicle space.

If you aren't aware of the wave of government mandates for EVs, you may want to spend some time looking into it before claiming there are no mandates.

California moves to accelerate to 100% new zero-emission vehicle sales by 2035 | California Air Resources Board

SACRAMENTO – The California Air Resources Board today approved the trailblazing Advanced Clean Cars II rule that sets California on a path to rapidly growing the zero-emission car, pickup truck and SUV market and deliver cleaner air and massive reductions in climate-warming pollution.

ww2.arb.ca.gov

Understanding California’s Advanced Clean Truck Regulation - RMI

What is ACT, who must comply, and what is required for compliance?

rmi.org

Advanced Clean Fleets Regulation Summary | California Air Resources Board

Accelerating Zero-Emission Truck Markets The Advanced Clean Fleets (ACF) regulation is part of California Air Resources Board’s (CARB or Board) overall approach to accelerate a large-scale reduction in tailpipe emissions focusing on zero-emissions medium- and heavy-duty vehicles. This regulation...

ww2.arb.ca.gov

Federal government EV mandates destined to fail: op-ed

In Canada, only 6.5 per cent of the 1.5 million new vehicles sold in 2022 were electric.

www.fraserinstitute.org

EPA’s 67.5% Electric Vehicle Mandate: Too Far, Too Fast

Members of Congress are encouraged to support efforts to counter EPA’s overly aggressive EV mandates and attempts to effectively ban the sale of gas-powered cars.

www.nada.org

You linked several posts to CA. I was under the impression that we live in Indiana. Do you go through a background check to buy ammo? Do you see that happening inevitably? You have to use the same logic across all laws if you're going to paint the California brush on all topics.

 

[ajeandy]

The problem, as I see it, is the government propping up EV adoption by subsidizing them with the $7500 tax credit. That just rocks the capitalist in me. It also is a tacit admission that, on their own merits and beyond the early adopters, EVs cannot compete with ICE cars. Maybe some day, but not yet. Imo.

Government subsidizes the hell out of gasoline. They also gave many billions in free money to GM & chrysler for a bailout that was never repaid.

 

[ajeandy]

I think the biggest point that's being overlooked is the ability to eventually get off the oil reliance on the middle east.

The USA is certainly not an oil rich country compared the the ME. We will absolutely run out of oil / gasoline if we're only using our own supply in a short period of time, therefore the middle east have us by the you know what.

Wouldn't you rather not be reliant on ANYONE for your own energy needs? I am certainly working towards moving out and away and being self reliant. I will not rely on city power, city water, city sewage, or gasoline to survive. If SHTF and everything went down gas stations wouldn't be refueled.

I have always been one that doesn't want to rely on someone else or the government to take care of me and working towards renewable energy / self reliance is always great in my opinion.

Too often I think people are quick to relate EVs to Liberals or Democrats when in reality getting off gasoline ends up cutting off a reliance with the middle east which is in our best interest.

 

[ajeandy]

This is the BIGGEST joke posted on INGO this month.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. It doesn't make it factual.

 

[oze]

Government subsidizes the hell out of gasoline. They also gave many billions in free money to GM & chrysler for a bailout that was never repaid.

Thanks for the non sequiter. I've purchased several cars in my lifetime, new and used, and no government has ever bribed me to do so, as it does purchasers of EVs. Oh, and I'm paying an extra 73 cents a gallon to the government for their subsidized gasoline. Could be worse: FIPs are paying 85 cents a gallon.

 

[firecadet613]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. It doesn't make it factual.

How are EV sales if the full $7,500 subsidy is removed?

Hell, look at what Ford had to tell their suppliers about next year's Lightening production forecast...

I'm fine with EVs, just don't manipulate the market and try and shove them down the masses throats...

 

[Kdf101]

I think the biggest point that's being overlooked is the ability to eventually get off the oil reliance on the middle east.

The USA is certainly not an oil rich country compared the the ME. We will absolutely run out of oil / gasoline if we're only using our own supply in a short period of time, therefore the middle east have us by the you know what.

Wouldn't you rather not be reliant on ANYONE for your own energy needs? I am certainly working towards moving out and away and being self reliant. I will not rely on city power, city water, city sewage, or gasoline to survive. If SHTF and everything went down gas stations wouldn't be refueled.

I have always been one that doesn't want to rely on someone else or the government to take care of me and working towards renewable energy / self reliance is always great in my opinion.

Too often I think people are quick to relate EVs to Liberals or Democrats when in reality getting off gasoline ends up cutting off a reliance with the middle east which is in our best interest.

The USA is an incredibly oil rich country. What have you been reading that told you otherwise? Just an incredible statement to make. I’m all for EV’s, if the free market can sell them. Take away subsidies and credits, they all fail, except for maybe a few boutique models of higher priced cars. I wish they were practical for 90% of us, but they are not. And we have a lot, a huge amount of oil.

 

[Kdf101]

From CNN so probably low.

America now has more untapped oil than any other country on the planet. That's according to a new report from Rystad Energy that estimates the U.S. is sitting on an incredible 264 billion barrels of oil reserves.

 

[MCgrease08]

First, I will repost what you wrote above to point out the massive attempt you just made to move the goal posts.

The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build.

Whether we're talking about mandates from California, or federal mandates (also contained in the links I posted) the mandates do exist. That would make you what's known as, wrong.

Now that that's out of the way, I'll indulge you by addressing your comment below because I work in this space so it's what I do all day anyway.

You linked several posts to CA. I was under the impression that we live in Indiana. Do you go through a background check to buy ammo? Do you see that happening inevitably? You have to use the same logic across all laws if you're going to paint the California brush on all topics.

The ammo law is an apples and oranges comparison and completely irrelevant.

Vehicle manufacturers must invest billions of dollars to develop products that can be sold in California based on these emissions regulations and vehicle mandates. They don't have the resources or capital to have two completely different sets of product offerings, so they have to choose to either abandon sales in California or meet CA regs (via much more expensive vehicles) and sell the same products in less stringent states. Given the sales volumes, no vehicle OEM has yet told CA to shove it. So as CA goes, the rest of the country goes.

Whether Indiana mandates a certain percentage of EVs or not is irrelevant. If that's all the vehicle OEMs can afford to make, that's all that will be available. California's plan literally depends on this dynamic. They've essentially taken the rest of the nation hostage with these mandates, and the Biden regime cheers them on.

 

[Flingarrows]

Do you have a laptop? Cell phone? Cordless power tools? Do you sleep in the house with them charging overnight? Those are all lithium ion batteries with the same strengths and weaknesses.

For the record, my car is outside the garage. That is not because of any fear it will catch on fire though. It is simply because we are slobs and I can't get it into the garage with all of the stuff in there.

No dog in this fight, but I am not hearing of fire departments having a hard time extinguishing the fire from a cordless drill or phone. The scale is much different

 

[jamil]

The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build.

Whoa. I think you’re gonna feel a little flushed in the face if you ever bother to fact check that one.

I mean. You probably shouldn’t. Continuing on believing that might help stave off the sure self esteem hit you’re gonna take. I mean that’s probably on par with saying the government doesn’t regulate guns.

 

[oze]

How are EV sales if the full $7,500 subsidy is removed?

Hell, look at what Ford had to tell their suppliers about next year's Lightening production forecast...

I'm fine with EVs, just don't manipulate the market and try and shove them down the masses throats...

Yessiree. Unlike Soviet Russia, Cuba and North Korea, we should let the free market sort this out. Human ingenuity being what it is when properly motivated, I have no doubt that some day, there will be viable alternatives to dead-dino powered transportation. Maybe storage batteries, hydrogen or something else. But, even the biggest batteries-included automobile zealot must admit that in no respect is the USA ready for 100% battery-powered vehicles. Not even 50% at this point. I think that is where the pushback from many skeptics originates. They bristle at the government supporting with their tax dollars an infant industry that, let's face it, isn't ready to succeed on its own.