The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[ajeandy]

If he has owned 5 EVs the oldest being 6 years old. I don't believe this shows how reliable they are. Now I question, why 5 EVs in 6 years?

Story time since you asked...These are not all mine per say but are in the immediate family.


The first EV I bought was a compliance car that was only sold in California / Arizona I believe. It is called a Chevy Spark EV. It only got about 70 miles of range in good weather, but it was also cheap and I wanted to test the waters of electric vehicles before spending more than 10-12k on something that I didn't know a lot about etc. I believe that one was a 2015 and I bought it used in 2017. The Spark EV was a good little commuter car and was basically just like a Chevy Spark except with instant acceleration and obviously running on electricity instead of gas. I sold that one once I bought my next vehicle.

The 2nd EV I bought was a new Tesla Model 3.

The 3rd EV was a Chevy Bolt EV. It was a no frills basic grocery getter and essentially acted as a commuter vehicle. It was fine but I ended up selling it after a couple years of ownership and got a used 2015 Tesla Model S. The Bolt EV was partially purchased to replace the last gas car in the family but was also purchased to take advantage of the dealer discounts and tax credit that I got at the last day possible before it was halved. (Now this phase out isn't a thing and most brands qualify for some credit)

The 4th EV was a Tesla Model Y which replaced the used Model S. The S was a great car but we wanted something larger to haul more stuff on a day to day basis.

I still have the Model 3 and Model Y. The 3 is now 5 years old and it's never had a single issue. I've just replaced the tires. You'll likely never need to replace brakes on an EV if you're using the regen braking.

5th EV is a Rivian. I would use caution against a Rivian right now unless it's an auxiliary vehicle that you aren't depending on day to day just because they are a very new company and the closest service center is in Cincinnati Ohio. So far it's been great but if I needed to get it fixed I'd have to take it to Ohio which is a big pain.

 

[ghuns]

Ford slows down EV Push with F-150 Lightning production cut

The auto giant has postponed $12 billion in investment in EV manufacturing amid cooling demand for electric vehicles. It has also paused construction of a battery plant in Kentucky and is scaling back another facility in Michigan.

 

[JCSR]

Story time since you asked...These are not all mine per say but are in the immediate family.


The first EV I bought was a compliance car that was only sold in California / Arizona I believe. It is called a Chevy Spark EV. It only got about 70 miles of range in good weather, but it was also cheap and I wanted to test the waters of electric vehicles before spending more than 10-12k on something that I didn't know a lot about etc. I believe that one was a 2015 and I bought it used in 2017. The Spark EV was a good little commuter car and was basically just like a Chevy Spark except with instant acceleration and obviously running on electricity instead of gas. I sold that one once I bought my next vehicle.

The 2nd EV I bought was a new Tesla Model 3.

The 3rd EV was a Chevy Bolt EV. It was a no frills basic grocery getter and essentially acted as a commuter vehicle. It was fine but I ended up selling it after a couple years of ownership and got a used 2015 Tesla Model S. The Bolt EV was partially purchased to replace the last gas car in the family but was also purchased to take advantage of the dealer discounts and tax credit that I got at the last day possible before it was halved. (Now this phase out isn't a thing and most brands qualify for some credit)

The 4th EV was a Tesla Model Y which replaced the used Model S. The S was a great car but we wanted something larger to haul more stuff on a day to day basis.

I still have the Model 3 and Model Y. The 3 is now 5 years old and it's never had a single issue. I've just replaced the tires. You'll likely never need to replace brakes on an EV if you're using the regen braking.

5th EV is a Rivian. I would use caution against a Rivian right now unless it's an auxiliary vehicle that you aren't depending on day to day just because they are a very new company and the closest service center is in Cincinnati Ohio. So far it's been great but if I needed to get it fixed I'd have to take it to Ohio which is a big pain.

Ok so you're a big fan of EVs. Nothing wrong with that. I pissed away thousands on a Mustang I used to drag race but I enjoyed every second of it.
I'm not always practical or economical in my cars but I buy what I want at the time. I assume you do the same.

 

[indyblue]

Story time since you asked...These are not all mine per say but are in the immediate family.


The first EV I bought was a compliance car that was only sold in California / Arizona I believe. It is called a Chevy Spark EV. It only got about 70 miles of range in good weather, but it was also cheap and I wanted to test the waters of electric vehicles before spending more than 10-12k on something that I didn't know a lot about etc. I believe that one was a 2015 and I bought it used in 2017. The Spark EV was a good little commuter car and was basically just like a Chevy Spark except with instant acceleration and obviously running on electricity instead of gas. I sold that one once I bought my next vehicle.

The 2nd EV I bought was a new Tesla Model 3.

The 3rd EV was a Chevy Bolt EV. It was a no frills basic grocery getter and essentially acted as a commuter vehicle. It was fine but I ended up selling it after a couple years of ownership and got a used 2015 Tesla Model S. The Bolt EV was partially purchased to replace the last gas car in the family but was also purchased to take advantage of the dealer discounts and tax credit that I got at the last day possible before it was halved. (Now this phase out isn't a thing and most brands qualify for some credit)

The 4th EV was a Tesla Model Y which replaced the used Model S. The S was a great car but we wanted something larger to haul more stuff on a day to day basis.

I still have the Model 3 and Model Y. The 3 is now 5 years old and it's never had a single issue. I've just replaced the tires. You'll likely never need to replace brakes on an EV if you're using the regen braking.

5th EV is a Rivian. I would use caution against a Rivian right now unless it's an auxiliary vehicle that you aren't depending on day to day just because they are a very new company and the closest service center is in Cincinnati Ohio. So far it's been great but if I needed to get it fixed I'd have to take it to Ohio which is a big pain.

My sister-in-law’s cousin bought a Rivian almost 2 years ago. Their experience has been the complete opposite of yours. It has now spent more time in the shop, then on the road or in their driveway. They live in Florida and even there the range kind of sucks.

For something that cost $80,000 that just ain’t right.

 

[BugI02]

I didn't read the 86 pages of comments but I scrolled through the past few pages. Lots of haters here. Not clear as to why. I have not owned a gas car in more than 5 years and could not be happier. Electric Vehicles, in their current state of what's available to buy right now, are not for everyone but they certainly are very good commuter vehicles and all the EVs I have owned have been very safe as well.

I have owned 3 different brands and 6 different models. There are drawbacks, especially in cold weather driving at highway speeds, but overall it fits my needs 99% of the time.

Absolutely fine, a free market choice

Many of us are uneasy about the push to deny us a similar choice if we favor ICE over electric, using bull**** statistics to support the idea

They are not pollution free, only pollution shifting. They are range limited compared to similar ICE vehicles and I am unaware of anything beyond incremental battery improvement in the pipeline

They are heavily computerized and allow changes to operational software parameters without informed consent or indeed any consent at all

Electric recharging is single-source with insufficient competition, gasoline production has multiple sources and inherent competition

They require tax subsidization to purchasers and extreme tax expenditures to 'incentivize' production of their still rather limited public charging options, further limiting realistic travel possibilities and adding to deficit spending and crony capitalism problems

 

[oze]

Absolutely fine, a free market choice

Many of us are uneasy about the push to deny us a similar choice if we favor ICE over electric, using bull**** statistics to support the idea

They are not pollution free, only pollution shifting. They are range limited compared to similar ICE vehicles and I am unaware of anything beyond incremental battery improvement in the pipeline

They are heavily computerized and allow changes to operational software parameters without informed consent or indeed any consent at all

Electric recharging is single-source with insufficient competition, gasoline production has multiple sources and inherent competition

They require tax subsidization to purchasers and extreme tax expenditures to 'incentivize' production of their still rather limited public charging options, further limiting realistic travel possibilities and adding to deficit spending and crony capitalism problems

Agree with all, but wrt computerization and all of its plusses and minuses, modern ICE vehicles are moving towards that as well. So far, mine only updates the infotainment system, and still needs permission to do so, but I'm not naive enough not to think that could change at some point.

 

[BugI02]

Ok so you're a big fan of EVs. Nothing wrong with that. I pissed away thousands on a Mustang I used to drag race but I enjoyed every second of it.
I'm not always practical or economical in my cars but I buy what I want at the time. I assume you do the same.

Sometimes the true believers come across like the vegans of automobilia

 

[BugI02]

Never had any issues with the 5 EVs I've owned. I also didn't have any issues with the most recent gas car I've owned 16' Civic. I have had issues with older ICE cars I've owned. I wouldn't anticipate any issues with new vehicles regardless of how they are powered. My oldest EV is about to be 6 years old and I haven't had to do anything to it but change the tires...still haven't replaced the 12v battery yet.

I find myself wondering why the intent is to push us directly into BEVs when hybrid drivetrains would seem to be a much more viable intermediate step away from pure ICE to attain a goal of less gasoline used rather than end the use of gasoline. Allows quick restoration of some range at traditional infrastructure already in existence while generally offering 1.5 x the mpg for passenger cars - a 33% reduction in CO2 to those who insist on worrying about such

To arbitrarily end ICE availability with so little infrastructure in place and so many unsolved technical issues is jumping of a cliff and trying to build your parachute on the way down

 

[KLB]

Absolutely fine, a free market choice

Many of us are uneasy about the push to deny us a similar choice if we favor ICE over electric, using bull**** statistics to support the idea

I think the vast majority of us here are in this boat, including those of us that have EVs.

They are not pollution free, only pollution shifting. They are range limited compared to similar ICE vehicles and I am unaware of anything beyond incremental battery improvement in the pipeline

They are heavily computerized and allow changes to operational software parameters without informed consent or indeed any consent at all

Tesla is worse about this than other manufacturers. Mine only gets Infotainment update OTA.

Electric recharging is single-source with insufficient competition, gasoline production has multiple sources and inherent competition

Really? What competition? There is a local refinery which supplies the gas, which each brand then tweaks with additives. Price is set based upon the price of crude. Stations pretty much change their prices in unison.

Unless you are actually referring to the number of stations you can get gas from, which is superior to the number of charges available. That doesn't match the ability to just plug my car in at home and recharge at will though.

They require tax subsidization to purchasers and extreme tax expenditures to 'incentivize' production of their still rather limited public charging options, further limiting realistic travel possibilities and adding to deficit spending and crony capitalism problems

This is an issue where the EV mandates are considered. People buying an EV today better know about charging restrictions going in. I bet the majority of them charge at home.

I didn't get any tax breaks/incentives for my purchase. They changed the rules so that it applied to US made cars, which gave the vast majority of the money to Tesla. That's really funny considering how much the left dislikes Elon now.

 

[indyblue]

Really? What competition? There is a local refinery which supplies the gas, which each brand then tweaks with additives. Price is set based upon the price of crude. Stations pretty much change their prices in unison.

I see quite a range of gas prices around me, that tells me there is indeed some competition.
Prices range anywhere from $2.66/gal - $3.19/gal on Indy's north side alone. That's a pretty good spread.


There are even parts of IN where the prices are even lower since they likely get their gas from a refinery not forced to produce the Illinois more expensive formulations. Less than $2.06 would be nice to have here in Indy.
It's usually worth it to me to drive over to Indy's east side where the prices are consistently lower as shown in the price heat map.

 

[ajeandy]

Ok so you're a big fan of EVs. Nothing wrong with that. I pissed away thousands on a Mustang I used to drag race but I enjoyed every second of it.
I'm not always practical or economical in my cars but I buy what I want at the time. I assume you do the same.

I would say that I've found no reason in my life, currently, to go back to a gas car for everyday driving. My new home will have solar and I can essentially live off the grid when that happens which will be nice. Even with our overcast weather in Indiana you can get enough sunlight to power your home year round with battery storage and panels.

They are definitely not perfect and I wouldn't recommend that they fit everyone's driving needs. For instance, if I'm traveling to see family about 90 miles away in the winter I can really just make it there and back on a 100% charge on the Teslas. With the Rivian it's no problem since it has a much bigger battery, but still, it's definitely annoying when the rated ranges are supposed to be 300+ miles.

For 99% of my driving though they are great. I plan on getting the Cybertruck and making it B6 bulletproof. I always wanted an APC but really wanted an electric one so I could power it from solar and was considering one day getting one something similar to one of those plan B vehicles but they are diesel and frankly I didn't want to worry about storing / getting diesel fuel. https://www.planbtrucks.com/

EVs are still in their infancy really. If GM had not killed the EV 1 back in the 90s we would have probably seen much greater progress on electric vehicles and battery storage by now. Texaco (oil) bought the battery patent from Stan Ovshinsky and basically locked it up so they couldn't use his nickel metal hydride battery back in the 90s which was a decent improvement over the AC Delco batteries that GM started with.

 

[ajeandy]

I find myself wondering why the intent is to push us directly into BEVs when hybrid drivetrains would seem to be a much more viable intermediate step away from pure ICE to attain a goal of less gasoline used rather than end the use of gasoline. Allows quick restoration of some range at traditional infrastructure already in existence while generally offering 1.5 x the mpg for passenger cars - a 33% reduction in CO2 to those who insist on worrying about such

To arbitrarily end ICE availability with so little infrastructure in place and so many unsolved technical issues is jumping of a cliff and trying to build your parachute on the way down

Who is pushing you though? I'm certainly not. There is no penalty for buying a gas car. The Saudis will make sure to keep the prices of gas somewhat affordable to keep the USA on oil as long as possible and that's basic business as they still have a huge supply of oil and don't want to lose a big customer.

 

[BugI02]

This:

Seventeen states have historically followed California's regulations, but so far only Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon,Rhode Island and Washington have announced they'll enforce the Advanced Clean Cars II rule and prohibit the sale of new gasoline-powered vehicles.

As well as FedGov enabling the EPA to attempt to implement emission rules that will regulate 2/3 of current ICE vehicles out of existence

I am of the opinion that, like FUDDs who think 2A restrictions are OK as long as it doesn't affect the kind of firearms the like and/or approve of, passive acceptance of restrictions to freedom that don't affect your personal lifestyle will still end in tears

 

[Ingomike]

Really? What competition? There is a local refinery which supplies the gas, which each brand then tweaks with additives. Price is set based upon the price of crude. Stations pretty much change their prices in unison.

You really think that the price would be lower with fewer stations?

 

[actaeon277]

Instead of stations, better be worried about the bottlenecks.
The refineries.

 

[KLB]

You really think that the price would be lower with fewer stations?

Huh? There are a lot fewer stations than there used to be. That doesn't seem to affect price much. Shutting down access to oil reserves did that for us.

 

[KLB]

I see quite a range of gas prices around me, that tells me there is indeed some competition.
Prices range anywhere from $2.66/gal - $3.19/gal on Indy's north side alone. That's a pretty good spread.
View attachment 318214

There are even parts of IN where the prices are even lower since they likely get their gas from a refinery not forced to produce the Illinois more expensive formulations. Less than $2.06 would be nice to have here in Indy.
It's usually worth it to me to drive over to Indy's east side where the prices are consistently lower as shown in the price heat map.
View attachment 318216

Go to an area and look at the prices for all of the stations. For instance, gas in Valpo will be within a couple of pennies a gallon for every station. The variance will be North side of town vs South side. Family Express, Speedway, and all the little guys will move their prices together.

 

[Ingomike]

Huh? There are a lot fewer stations than there used to be. That doesn't seem to affect price much. Shutting down access to oil reserves did that for us.

Lack of competition greatly affects the price, just look at the price in small towns with one station. Look at how much higher gas is in affluent areas versus other areas. It is a commodity so there are limits but the availability of options keep the prices down…

 

[Ingomike]

“The bad news is that lovers of Tesla's so-called Full Self Driving mode will have their less-than-full-self-driving mode become even less full-self-driving.”

WHOA: Tesla Just Recalled HOW MANY Cars?

pjmedia.com

 

[Ingomike]

“But Ford is now telling dealers it will cut production in half starting next month, Automotive News reported. Currently, the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center in Dearborn, Michigan, is producing about 3,200 F-150 Lightning trucks per week. After the cut, the plant will make only 1,600 weekly. Auto news website Jalopnik described the move as “an ominous sign” for the EV industry.”

Ford Dramatically Slashes Production of EV Trucks

When Ford debuted the electric truck last January, the automaker planned to build 150,000 per year, citing high customer demand that began with 200,000 initial reservations for the vehicle....

hotair.com