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    Jack Ryan

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    Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In it's fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life - legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components.

    Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here's how it works.

    As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

    United States -- Muslim 0.6%
    Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
    Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
    China -- Muslim 1.8%
    Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
    Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

    At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

    Denmark -- Muslim 2%
    Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
    United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
    Spain -- Muslim 4%
    Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

    From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves --along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

    France -- Muslim 8%
    Philippines -- Muslim 5%
    Sweden -- Muslim 5%
    Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
    The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
    Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

    At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

    When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such
    tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

    Guyana -- Muslim 10%
    India -- Muslim 13.4%
    Israel -- Muslim 16%
    Kenya -- Muslim 10%
    Russia -- Muslim 15%

    After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

    Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

    At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

    Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
    Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
    Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

    From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya,
    the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

    Albania -- Muslim 70%
    Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
    Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
    Sudan -- Muslim 70%

    After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

    Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
    Egypt -- Muslim 90%
    Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
    Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
    Iran -- Muslim 98%
    Iraq -- Muslim 97%
    Jordan -- Muslim 92%
    Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
    ****stan -- Muslim 97%
    Palestine -- Muslim 99%
    Syria -- Muslim 90%
    Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
    Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
    United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

    100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:

    Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
    Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
    Somalia -- Muslim 100%
    Yemen -- Muslim 100%

    Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

    'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'.

    It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are

    100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death.

    Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate. Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddists, and Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will
    exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century.

    Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's Book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat
     

    dburkhead

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    Some people keep trying to tell me that the problems with terrorism are only the responsibility of a "small minority" of Muslims. The comparison is made to various "extremists" of the violent variety in Christianity.

    However, consider.

    Michael F. Griffin, anti-abortion activist and murderer of Dr. David Gunn. What was the predominate religion among those who captured, tried, and convicted Griffin. See if it's not some flavor of Christianity.

    Paul Jennings Hill, similar case, murder of a couple of doctors who perform abortions. Again, what was the religion of the people who captured, tried, convicted, and executed him? See above.

    Eric Rudolph? See above.

    And so on and so forth.

    So where are the Muslims bringing in the murderers of Daniel Pearl for trial? Where were the Muslims capturing, trying, and convicting Osama bin Laden? And so on.

    Until there is a serious, aggressive, effort by the "moderates" in the religion of Islam to track down and bring the violent elements to justice, claims that it's "just a tiny minority" ring a little hollow.
     

    The Meach

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    As a Roman Catholic i have an advantage in a lifetimes education in Christianity's failures.

    Christianity just under 2000 years old

    Islam just under 1400 years old

    For the past one hundred years Islam has been labeled as a radical, murderous, killing machine. But lets Compare that to Christianity from its 1300th birthday to its 1400th

    1302- The Pope (direct leader of the Christian world at the time) Declared Himself the only source of salvation
    1306- King Philip (christian King) ordered the expulsion of the Jews from France. Under pain of death.
    1310-1311-Sanctioned Torture and execution of the Knights Templar for Heresy
    1316-Pope John XXII centeralizes the Christian Church and institutes the "Papal Tax"
    1335-Inquisitors in Hradec Try and execute over 5000 people for heresy
    1343-Pope Clement VI institutes Indulgence Doctrine
    1348-1349-Jews are Blamed for the Black Plague and persecuted/murdered
    1378-Great Schism of the West begins
    1391-Spanish Inquisition begins with the decimation of all Jewish communities in Barcelona. Hundreds of thousands Die.

    However within 200 years the Eastern and western had Church Split, and the Protestant reformation began. After hundreds of years of infighting Peace slowly begins to prosper.

    Now in modern times the different factions of Christianity live in relative harmony. Of course there are minor violent skirmishes but this is looked down upon by the majority. The Catholic Church has offered recommence and apology to the Jews for their past actions. Mummers of a joyfull reunification of the eastern and western Catholic Churches has begun. Most Major Factions of Christianity are at peace and have agreed to peaceful diolouge and understanding.

    It took 2000 years for Christianity to reach this point. Islam is a growing Faith. And if you look at christian history, is following an astonishly similar course.

    The CHRISTIAN course is to allow for understanding. To try and nurture peace not stir hatered. Islam is a brother faith just as Judaism. This is not we should not defend ourselves. however it would go against the teachings of christ to condem Islam. Let those without sin cast the first stone.

    Remember when Christianaity ruled the world it was called the Dark ages
     

    Jack Ryan

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    As a Roman Catholic i have an advantage in a lifetimes education in Christianity's failures.

    Christianity just under 2000 years old

    Islam just under 1400 years old

    For the past one hundred years Islam has been labeled as a radical, murderous, killing machine. But lets Compare that to Christianity from its 1300th birthday to its 1400th

    1302- The Pope (direct leader of the Christian world at the time) Declared Himself the only source of salvation
    1306- King Philip (christian King) ordered the expulsion of the Jews from France. Under pain of death.
    1310-1311-Sanctioned Torture and execution of the Knights Templar for Heresy
    1316-Pope John XXII centeralizes the Christian Church and institutes the "Papal Tax"
    1335-Inquisitors in Hradec Try and execute over 5000 people for heresy
    1343-Pope Clement VI institutes Indulgence Doctrine
    1348-1349-Jews are Blamed for the Black Plague and persecuted/murdered
    1378-Great Schism of the West begins
    1391-Spanish Inquisition begins with the decimation of all Jewish communities in Barcelona. Hundreds of thousands Die.
    Had I lived 700 years ago it may have been relevant.
    [quot]

    However within 200 years the Eastern and western had Church Split, and the Protestant reformation began. After hundreds of years of infighting Peace slowly begins to prosper.

    Now in modern times the different factions of Christianity live in relative harmony. Of course there are minor violent skirmishes but this is looked down upon by the majority. The Catholic Church has offered recommence and apology to the Jews for their past actions.

    Mummers of a joyfull reunification of the eastern and western Catholic Churches has begun. Most Major Factions of Christianity are at peace and have agreed to peaceful diolouge and understanding.

    It took 2000 years for Christianity to reach this point.
    [/quote]
    Modern times would be now?
    Islam is a growing Faith. And if you look at christian history, is following an astonishly similar course.

    The CHRISTIAN course is to allow for understanding. To try and nurture peace not stir hatered.
    My "understanding" is pretty much worn out. Send them to hll and let God sort it out.
    Islam is a brother faith just as Judaism. This is not we should not defend ourselves. however it would go against the teachings of christ to condem Islam. Let those without sin cast the first stone.

    Remember when Christianaity ruled the world it was called the Dark ages

    [/quote]
    Send them to hll and let God sort 'em out. Repeat as necessary. Exactly why no one should EVER tolerate being "ruled" by any religion.
     

    The Meach

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    Jack, your missing my point.

    All Ethnic groups are at one point or another guilty of harming another. What we need to do is learn from the past.

    I'm not advocating sitting back and watching as aggressors use violence to try and bend world policy to their aims. All acts of violence should receive a swift and proportionate response. ie: Groups from Afghanistan attack the world trade center = Immediate removal of said groups from their seat of power and trial of those involved in the attack.

    However to say that Islam is to blame is ludicrous.

    On that logic EVERY ethnic group is evil:

    Christians for their attacks on Jews and Muslims
    Jews for their long standing oppression of the Arabs
    Egyptians for their slavery of the Jews
    Americans for their Slavery of the Blacks
    White People for their genocide of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas
    The list could go on forever...

    Have you ever thought that maybe the INDIVIDUALS behind the seeming "religious war" WANT you to hate Islam? To Blame them?

    By preaching against Islam you d4rive more of the "moderate" Islamic peoples to join with the radicals for their own perceived survival

    Because by drawing an Ethnic line and cultivating your hate to draw your own lines you are helping to create the holy war that the few groups behind all this wanted.

    Maybe by UNDERSTANDING we can cut off the flow of semi-willing volunteers to the other side. Maybe by Saying Islam is NOT to blame you show those PEOPLE that just want to live that they don't have to defend themselves against us.

    So maybe by saying Islam in of itself is not to Blame, and by turning the other cheek everyone wins.
     

    Jack Ryan

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    Jack, your missing my point.

    All Ethnic groups are at one point or another guilty of harming another. What we need to do is learn from the past.

    I'm not advocating sitting back and watching as aggressors use violence to try and bend world policy to their aims. All acts of violence should receive a swift and proportionate response. ie: Groups from Afghanistan attack the world trade center = Immediate removal of said groups from their seat of power and trial of those involved in the attack.

    However to say that Islam is to blame is ludicrous.

    On that logic EVERY ethnic group is evil:

    Christians for their attacks on Jews and Muslims
    Jews for their long standing oppression of the Arabs
    Egyptians for their slavery of the Jews
    Americans for their Slavery of the Blacks
    White People for their genocide of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas
    The list could go on forever...

    It could go on for ever if you want to blame or excuse people's actions today on the actions of their ancestors, predecessors or what ever.

    I don't claim responsibility or credit for what any one else did and I don't give some one else a pass because of what someone else did.

    Muslim scum today are butchering and murdering trash sworn to attack me and mine. I'm sworn to defend them. I'm not going to take the time or effort to sort them out.

    They stay where they belong and mind their own business, I'll do the same. They don't and I'll do my best to give them a chance get with 40 virgins.
     

    Chefcook

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    On that logic EVERY ethnic group is evil:

    Christians for their attacks on Jews and Muslims
    Jews for their long standing oppression of the Arabs
    Egyptians for their slavery of the Jews
    Americans for their Slavery of the Blacks
    White People for their genocide of the Indigenous peoples of the Americas
    The list could go on forever...

    And what makes you so certain they are not??? People may not but leaders are. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely...
     
    Last edited:

    The Meach

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    It could go on for ever if you want to blame or excuse people's actions today on the actions of their ancestors, predecessors or what ever.

    I don't claim responsibility or credit for what any one else did and I don't give some one else a pass because of what someone else did.

    Muslim scum today are butchering and murdering trash sworn to attack me and mine. I'm sworn to defend them. I'm not going to take the time or effort to sort them out.

    They stay where they belong and mind their own business, I'll do the same. They don't and I'll do my best to give them a chance get with 40 virgins.

    Well if that's how you wanna be then nobody is gonna change your mind. You've set yourself as a wall and i doubt you'd change.

    I think its a ****** way to live, but to each his own i guess.

    The people i truly feel sorry for in your case are the Islamic men and women in the American Military who give of themselves to protect your right to spew hate against their religion. A gift with no doubt you don't recognize.

    And what makes you so certain they are not???

    That is the question isn't it?

    I'd like to hope that people are not inherently evil. I believe that the vast majority of people just want to live their lives, provide for themselves and their families, and be happy. And that only a few outliers find ways to mess that all up.

    But that is just what i hope, and what i believe.
     

    Jack Ryan

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    Well if that's how you wanna be then nobody is gonna change your mind. You've set yourself as a wall and i doubt you'd change.

    I think its a ****** way to live, but to each his own i guess.

    The people i truly feel sorry for in your case are the Islamic men and women in the American Military who give of themselves to protect your right to spew hate against their religion. A gift with no doubt you don't recognize.

    Yer spread'n the BS pretty thin out there to get it wiped from terrorist muslims to american military.

    Call it how ya want to, you are right about one thing. I doubt you are going to change MY mind with this arguement. I'm not the one kidnapping people and cutting their heads off to send the video back to THEIR families and I don't align myself with those who do.

    Suppose if I was of a mind to spread crap as thin as you do, I'd mention your suspicious tendency to go soft on muslim terrorist, but I don't spread bull crap I don't believe.
     

    The Meach

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    Yer spread'n the BS pretty thin out there to get it wiped from terrorist muslims to american military.

    Call it how ya want to, you are right about one thing. I doubt you are going to change MY mind with this arguement. I'm not the one kidnapping people and cutting their heads off to send the video back to THEIR families and I don't align myself with those who do.

    Suppose if I was of a mind to spread crap as thin as you do, I'd mention your suspicious tendency to go soft on muslim terrorist, but I don't spread bull crap I don't believe.

    The BS? I was just quoting Fact, Fact that these "muslim terrorists" in America are also free citizens of this country. Celebrating their religious freedoms as they see fit in a peaceful manner as provided for them in our constitution. And some these "muslim terrorists" also Serve on our military fighting the enemies of OUR people.

    If called upon to serve I'd gladly lay down my life to protect the rights of these "muslim terrorists" against the enemies of this nation, Just as many of these "muslim terrorists" have died to protect mine even against Muslim Terrorists.

    These "muslim terrorists" died along side us in the World Trade Center
    These "muslim terrorists" died along side us in the pentagon
    These "muslim terrorists" died along side us in flight 93
    These "muslim terrorists" died trying to save those who were lost and burning and stop the towers from falling
    These "muslim terrorists" watched along side us as people attacked our Nation
    And these "muslim terrorists" fight and die as servicemen to keep us safe from the true muslim terrorists who seek to destroy our way of life.

    For you to deny the gift of thier lives to protect your sorry ass is one thing, but to deny the Fact that they even serve and then call them "muslim terrorists" is another.

    You are one peice of work.
     

    TopDog

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    Had I lived 700 years ago it may have been relevant.
    [quot]

    History also has a tendency to be colored according to popular views. As we have all learned from the Liberal media. Its not just facts but how you spin the facts, what you leave out, partial truth's that makes opinions.
     

    jeremy

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    You know what gentlemen why don't you both go live amongst them for a year or so IN a Muslim community and country. I have. I will not be lawed over by religous rules.
     

    The Meach

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    You know what gentlemen why don't you both go live amongst them for a year or so IN a Muslim community and country. I have. I will not be lawed over by religous rules.

    So don't live there, or be part of that community. there are plenty of places in this MASSIVE country of ours. if you don't like the standards or cultural practices within a community and aren't willing to be made a little uncomfortable and looked at funny then there are plenty of other places to live...

    How is it any different than a Amish community and their strict codes of conduct? Or the Cultural differences of a Korean Community? There are hundreds of micro communities around Indiana I don't see anybody going ape **** at them.

    I'm sure the Amish wouldn't kick you out if you moved in but don't expect to find alot of drinking buddies or have your neighbors coming over to watch the Game. I'm sure the Koreans would love to have you around but be ready for a loud night on [FONT=Verdana,Arial][SIZE=-1]Seokka Tanshin-il[/SIZE][/FONT] in august.

    If you live in a Islamic community in America be ready to get yelled at for wandering around Drunk, your neighbors will cover their noses when your outside grilling pork chops, and your not gonna be able to sleep in on saturday when they have morning prayier on the bull horn.

    If you go to a Muslim owned Burger King, don't be surprised the Bacon is off the menu.

    Welcome to Freedom, its a Bitch ain't it?

    Like i said, if you don't like it...move

    And when it comes to other countries, SUCK IT UP. Its not your country, its theirs. Sorry no bars with green beer on St. Patty's day in Yamen. tough cookies. you can't go to another country and expect it to be America-light. unless its the UK...or sothern Canada.
     

    CarmelHP

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    Carmel
    When the Sharia police want to stone you daughter, after gang raping her, for walking around with her head uncovered, chalk it up to, "the price of freedom."
     

    dburkhead

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    As a Roman Catholic i have an advantage in a lifetimes education in Christianity's failures.

    Christianity just under 2000 years old

    Islam just under 1400 years old

    For the past one hundred years Islam has been labeled as a radical, murderous, killing machine. But lets Compare that to Christianity from its 1300th birthday to its 1400th

    1302- The Pope (direct leader of the Christian world at the time) Declared Himself the only source of salvation
    1306- King Philip (christian King) ordered the expulsion of the Jews from France. Under pain of death.
    1310-1311-Sanctioned Torture and execution of the Knights Templar for Heresy
    1316-Pope John XXII centeralizes the Christian Church and institutes the "Papal Tax"
    1335-Inquisitors in Hradec Try and execute over 5000 people for heresy
    1343-Pope Clement VI institutes Indulgence Doctrine
    1348-1349-Jews are Blamed for the Black Plague and persecuted/murdered
    1378-Great Schism of the West begins
    1391-Spanish Inquisition begins with the decimation of all Jewish communities in Barcelona. Hundreds of thousands Die.

    However within 200 years the Eastern and western had Church Split, and the Protestant reformation began. After hundreds of years of infighting Peace slowly begins to prosper.

    Now in modern times the different factions of Christianity live in relative harmony. Of course there are minor violent skirmishes but this is looked down upon by the majority. The Catholic Church has offered recommence and apology to the Jews for their past actions. Mummers of a joyfull reunification of the eastern and western Catholic Churches has begun. Most Major Factions of Christianity are at peace and have agreed to peaceful diolouge and understanding.

    It took 2000 years for Christianity to reach this point. Islam is a growing Faith. And if you look at christian history, is following an astonishly similar course.

    The CHRISTIAN course is to allow for understanding. To try and nurture peace not stir hatered. Islam is a brother faith just as Judaism. This is not we should not defend ourselves. however it would go against the teachings of christ to condem Islam. Let those without sin cast the first stone.

    Remember when Christianaity ruled the world it was called the Dark ages

    Your argument here does not follow.

    To start with your last: Christianity "ruled the world" (as much as it did during the Dark Ages) several hundred years before the Dark Ages. It also "ruled the world" pretty (again, at least that amount), since then as well. It "ruled the world" during the Renaissance. It "ruled the world" during the Enlightenment, during the Age of Exploration, etc.

    Now, on to your first bit about the relative ages of Christianity and Islam. The issue about the things 700 years or so ago was not because Christianity was "only" 1300 years old, but because that was the way of the world then. Note that Islam was at about the same level then as Christianity. Remember that like Christianity didn't spring full-grown from the Brow of Zeus, but instead drew on and adapted from Jewish belief, thus getting a "head start," so too did Islam get its "head start" by drawing on Christian and Jewish belief when it got its start in the 7th Century.

    In any event, 700 years ago, one could argue (from the perspective of 21st century Western morals) that Christianity and Islam were comparable. Christianity, however, has moved on while Islam, by and large, has not. It's still stuck in the 13th century.

    The age of the religion in getting to that point in the 13th century is really irrelevant. It's where they've gone since and where they are at the present day that matter.
     
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