The Open Carry Argument

[Andre46996]

Hey have any of you guys seen that CCW Badge???

 

[BloodEclipse]

Hey have any of you guys seen that CCW Badge???

What do you mean seen? Doesn't everyone own at least one of them?

 

[Andre46996]

I can't chat with you your Avatar is distracting!!!

I really want a Captain n DR.Pepper now too for some reason. I am out of Dr,Pepper Heritage too!!

 

[BloodEclipse]

I can't chat with you your Avatar is distracting!!!

I really want a Captain n DR.Pepper now too for some reason. I am out of Dr,Pepper Heritage too!!

Your avatar makes me hungry for some odd reason.

 

[Joe Williams]

Your avatar makes me hungry for some odd reason.

Funny, yours has the same effect on me. Well, maybe "hungry" isn't quite the right word...

 

[youngda9]

People so passionate about OC threads...another for the century club.

 

[mercop]

Here is my stance- If I walked into a town where everyone open carried I would too. But in the vast majority of places it attracts a lot of attention. Right, wrong or indifferent when the majority of people see an exposed pistol their first reaction is cop, and if you don't fit the profile of what they think a police should look like they will continue looking at you trying to figure it out.

I spend lots of time out with my family. In that regard I am a bodyguard, not a lone wolf. My job it to be aware of threats and avoid them at all costs. Just like when I was on the job I did not wear police t-shirts or hats etc. I did my best to pass myself off as just another military guy in a military town. Now I do my best to blend in by adding facial hair because I am no longer in a military town. My firearms is a tool, like a knife, or first aid kit. It is not worn to make a statement.

As and instructor I do not advocate open carry for those carrying with the primary purpose of self-defense. The list of reasons is long and actually best demonstrated in person.- George

 

[kingnereli]

Here is my stance- If I walked into a town where everyone open carried I would too. But in the vast majority of places it attracts a lot of attention. Right, wrong or indifferent when the majority of people see an exposed pistol their first reaction is cop, and if you don't fit the profile of what they think a police should look like they will continue looking at you trying to figure it out.

I spend lots of time out with my family. In that regard I am a bodyguard, not a lone wolf. My job it to be aware of threats and avoid them at all costs. Just like when I was on the job I did not wear police t-shirts or hats etc. I did my best to pass myself off as just another military guy in a military town. Now I do my best to blend in by adding facial hair because I am no longer in a military town. My firearms is a tool, like a knife, or first aid kit. It is not worn to make a statement.

As and instructor I do not advocate open carry for those carrying with the primary purpose of self-defense. The list of reasons is long and actually best demonstrated in person.- George

Would you care to list some of those reasons? Do you consider the fact that some people may look at you funny to be the most important since that is the only one you listed?

 

[Amishman44]

My wife and I both CC...while it's not always in the fastest location, I do prefer an ankle holster for church on Sunday mornings and my wife typically carries in a belt pouch. With 3 small children, the belt pouch is probably the slowest, but at least it's on her belt...and no one can grab the pouch and run. I like the ankle holster...getting to it lowers my CofG, making my target smaller to start with. At least the gun is with us...

 

[Z-Glock23]

I OC and CC, depends on where I am going and what I will be doing. I always keep an extra button up shirt in my truck incase I go somewhere and need to keep it concealed.

 

[jeremy]

tag

 

[mk2ja]

tag

You're it!

 

[Yamaha]

^^^^lol, wtf?

anyways, I just want to know how many people understand the general mindsets of people who commit crimes, there are a few exceptions, but most hold true to similar.

Rapists and robbers generally do it for the control aspect of the crime, hence they're thrill seekers. If you take the control away from them in any way, that makes them more apt to bail.

Several theft crimes, not involving personal contact, are predominately spurred by envy, monetary gain, or property gain. These perps generally go through great care to avoid any personal contact.

Murder is unusual, generally it is premeditated by an individual allowing the delusion of what he is doing is right, or a heat of the moment(almost like an accident) crime.


I hope this helps a little bit since by the sounds of it in this thread, people seem to be failing to understand the differences. If I can find my books relating to this subject, I'll share more as I have time. There are always exceptions, and I have personally seen first hand the deterrent of OC, and I am well aware of the surprise factor of the CC. Either side doesn't make a difference without knowing what type of perp you're up against.

 

[indyk]

oh man

I missed this one let the lashings begin INDY

I know we've been around this block a few times here but I ran across a link to this post and thought that it was one of the best written pieces I had read on the subject.

The author expounds on many of the points that have been debated in several different threads here and across many other forums for years.

Since this post captures so much and adds a bit that I don't recall even seeing here before, I will give it its own thread instead of burying it on page 10 of one of the existing threads.

Long but very interesting read IMO.

(source link) The Open Carry Argument





ETA: If you didn't already, go back and click the BLUE link. It is well worth the additional reading.

 

[wag1911]

The deterrent of open carrying is always going to be difficult to quantify. A criminal is not going to come up to you and tell you that the reason you are not getting beaten, robbed, etc. is because you may be a potential threat to their safety. So it's likely we'll never really know the extent of the deterrent because quantifying it is virtually impossible.

However, in one recent case, the deterrent was very real.

Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw

In this event, the open carriers did delay a robbery just for having their guns displayed. The thieves thought the open carriers were off-duty cops. That allowed for enough time for a waitress to notice a suspicious car and call the police - thereby preventing the crime.

Armed American Radio had the two open carriers and the waitress on one of the shows explaining how it all went down.

 

[Sgt Stoner]

Currently a concealed carry.... but definetly thinking about open carry now! Thanks for the essay!

 

[Regionnus Rattis]

It's a great article and after reading and discussing many of the threads relating to this topic, I made the decision to open carry as much as possible, that being just generally carrying my handgun in a Fobus holster. If my shirt happens to be tucked in, its exposed. If I am wearing a sweatshirt, sweater, etc., generally it is partially concealed.

 

[clgustaveson]

^^^^lol, wtf?

anyways, I just want to know how many people understand the general mindsets of people who commit crimes, there are a few exceptions, but most hold true to similar.

Rapists and robbers generally do it for the control aspect of the crime, hence they're thrill seekers. If you take the control away from them in any way, that makes them more apt to bail.

Several theft crimes, not involving personal contact, are predominately spurred by envy, monetary gain, or property gain. These perps generally go through great care to avoid any personal contact.

Murder is unusual, generally it is premeditated by an individual allowing the delusion of what he is doing is right, or a heat of the moment(almost like an accident) crime.


I hope this helps a little bit since by the sounds of it in this thread, people seem to be failing to understand the differences. If I can find my books relating to this subject, I'll share more as I have time. There are always exceptions, and I have personally seen first hand the deterrent of OC, and I am well aware of the surprise factor of the CC. Either side doesn't make a difference without knowing what type of perp you're up against.

Murder is more often not premeditated, I liked your discussion of the first two mindsets. Being that I am into the darkside of psychology (and have my degree in such) and I am currently in a MS program I would like to hear your discussion of the murderer's mindset.

You really didn't describe them at all? You simply stated the two ways it is done.

I liked the discussion of the others, very concise and adequate.

 

[mercop]

The is a reason why most agencies require officers to conceal their pistol off-duty. Most importantly officer safety and survival. In my agency if you did have your weapon exposed you had to have your badge exposed as well.

A natural law of survival is to blend in and go unnoticed. Open carry on the contrary draws attention to you. The vast majority of people who see you have no idea about firearm laws. If they see an exposed firearm, depending on your appearance will likely believe you to be a police officer. If I am a bad guy and happen to accidentally stumble upon you during the commission of a crime, I am going to shoot you in the back of the head, even if your family is with you, because you stand between my goal and my freedom.

Not to mention, you show me a gun I can see, and I will show you a gun I can take. I have trained to do it so that I can train weapon retention.

A popular robbery tool here on the east coast anyway is OC, for those of you who open carry, what do you think your response would be if someone just walked up and sprayed you in the face what do you think you would do? And don't give me that crap about "nobody gets that close to me".- George

 

[turnandshoot4]

Great post mercop

You might be overlooking one simple fact of criminals. They are LAZY. They want the easiest route to money. I believe this is why you don't see many 25 year old men mugged and wallet taken. You see 85 year old men mugged and wallet/car taken. Yes it is important to be prepared but the number of LTCH shootings vs the number of LTCH's out there mean MOST of us will NEVER use our firearm to stop a robbery/mugging/whatever. Understanding that I guess I embark on changing the "hearts and minds" of your everyday walmart shopper. I've been able to tell atleast 25 people in the last year about their rights. All curious, all open minded. I never start the conversation. How many times have I stopped a robbery? Zero.

To answer your last question.

I guess you are talking about pepper spray? If that is the case I'd start rubbing my eyes with one hand and swinging with the other. I've been pepper sprayed and it isn't that bad if you are pissed enough. If they are close I'd grab whatever I could get my hands on and try to break it. Responsible OC is in a retention holster, most idiot criminals can't figure them out. That has been proven in videos before.