The First Presidential Debate

[Clay Pigeon]

What you saw is exactly who this man is. Brash....yes. Outspoken....yes. Unafraid.....yes.

This scares the lesser among us. The "A" male is being weeded out of society with purpose so the man bun, nail polish and eye shadow skinny jeans crowd do not feel threatened.

You do know that a man bun is just a pony tail curled up.....

 

[jamil]

I wasn’t speaking dogwhistle. I was just stating the indivisible in the image posted, seems to be darker that the other images I’ve seen of the individual that is stated to be... but that one of a number of things that seem different. D

This sounds a lot like you're saying he isn't dark enough for you to consider that he's a "person of color". He's mixed race. Cuban and African, from what I've read. Surely you're not saying that his darkness implies the extent to which he belongs to an immutable racial group, right? The point is, the elected leader of the Proud Boys is not white, and calling them white nationalists reflects an ignorance, either willful or not, of who and what they are.

I'm not trying to be ****ty with you here. Since you've come back I've found you to be quite reasonable and more objective. This line of thought you seem to be pursuing doesn't sound rational and has introduced some ambiguities. You seem to signal skepticism that the Proud Boys are not a white nationalist group. Maybe you could clear that up and just say whether or not you think they are what the press claims they are.

Here's an interview with Tarrio from CNN which kinda gives you his own view of who they are.

[video=youtube;o_87True1ac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_87True1ac[/video]





When Tarrio took over, the rules changed a little to promote "less fighting, and less wanking" among members. They have a rule now (obviously meant to be humorous) that members can only "wank" once per month, and they can't do it to porn. Gavin McGinniss started the club, it was a joke, partly to counter radical feminists push to emasculate men, and partly to make it a "modernized version of the Elk's club". They have silly initiation rules to mock initiation rules. Tarrio refers to it as a men's drinking club. They call themselves Western Chauvinists which he defines as men who have patriotic and traditional Western values. My beef with them has been that they had tended to insert themselves into places where they knew they'd be provoked to fighting. They have seemed to calm down a bit since Tarrio took over from McGinniss.

 

[jamil]

I’m an independent thinker. I don’t need the media to tell me how to view things. The Proud Boys, don’t quite yet meet (in my mind) the requirements for being WNs, but they getting close. That org is full of bigots and sexists though.

I didn't see this before writing my last post. This partially answers my questions. I think they have some members who might join to use it for some personal issues. They are right wing so they likely tend to have traditional views of women, which might make them sound like bigots. So that's fair. White nationalists? Not even close.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This sounds a lot like you're saying he isn't dark enough for you to consider that he's a "person of color". He's mixed race. Cuban and African, from what I've read. Surely you're not saying that his darkness implies the extent to which he belongs to an immutable racial group, right? The point is, the elected leader of the Proud Boys is not white, and calling them white nationalists reflects an ignorance, either willful or not, of who and what they are.

I'm not trying to be ****ty with you here. Since you've come back I've found you to be quite reasonable and more objective. This line of thought you seem to be pursuing doesn't sound rational and has introduced some ambiguities. You seem to signal skepticism that the Proud Boys are not a white nationalist group. Maybe you could clear that up and just say whether or not you think they are what the press claims they are.

Here's an interview with Tarrio from CNN which kinda gives you his own view of who they are.

[video=youtube;o_87True1ac]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_87True1ac[/video]





When Tarrio took over, the rules changed a little to promote "less fighting, and less wanking" among members. They have a rule now (obviously meant to be humorous) that members can only "wank" once per month, and they can't do it to porn. Gavin McGinniss started the club, it was a joke, partly to counter radical feminists push to emasculate men, and partly to make it a "modernized version of the Elk's club". They have silly initiation rules to mock initiation rules. Tarrio refers to it as a men's drinking club. They call themselves Western Chauvinists which he defines as men who have patriotic and traditional Western values. My beef with them has been that they had tended to insert themselves into places where they knew they'd be provoked to fighting. They have seemed to calm down a bit since Tarrio took over from McGinniss.

How about it sounding like “that ain’t the picture of the guy you’re talking about?” That was my only point from my first comment. So it obviously begs to question who made that meme, if the didn’t know jack about what they were talking about and what was the point in doing so? I immediately knew that picture wasn’t who it said it was.

 

[Alpo]

How about it sounding like “that ain’t the picture of the guy you’re talking about?” That was my only point from my first comment. So it obviously begs to question who made that meme, if the didn’t know jack about what they were talking about and what was the point in doing so? I immediately knew that picture wasn’t who it said it was.

The first guy looks familiar. Baseball player? LeBron? I dunno. But, it isn't Proud Boys.

 

[maxwelhse]

I immediately knew that picture wasn’t who it said it was.

Then why chase around the bush with a series of posts to share your conclusion with the rest of us?

I swear man, I've seen you write some stuff that has set my hair on end because I disagree with it so much but you executed your point so well I couldn't be mad, and then I see ridiculous crap like this. I know for a fact you're better than this.

 

[Alpo]

I don't need to defend Kut, but I will.

He didn't post the image in the first place. Perhaps your slings and arrows should be delivered to a different, and more appropriate target.

In other words: sheesh.

 

[maxwelhse]

I don't need to defend Kut, but I will.

He didn't post the image in the first place. Perhaps your slings and arrows should be delivered to a different, and more appropriate target.

In other words: sheesh.

He didn't start the thread or invent the internet either. So?

So far you and him are the only ones that seem to believe that's not the same guy, and I'll accept that it either is or isn't if it goes that way, but that had absolutely nothing to do with the point that was made (which is why "slings and arrows" were quite well aimed). That point was that it is outright asinine to claim that the leader of a white nationalist group is a guy who isn't white unless you actually believe Dave Chapelle is a fortune teller. The entire argument presented by Biden is completely stupid, and Kut appeared to defacto defended it with an arbitrary troll when I know he's got better in him.

So... He, you, whoever is welcome to sink to the level of simply being the left leaning trolls of the 99% right leaning gun forum if you want, but I know for a fact he has better arguments in him, because I've already seen them. If I thought he was actually that goofy, I wouldn't have wasted my time. Same goes with you for that matter. If I didn't respect you, I would have kept scrolling and ignored you.

edit: And just so it's done... The man in the picture appears to be Edwin Arthur (who is a Proud Boy), so the meme is indeed inaccurate, but the point is still entirely relevant. He's a pretty well tanned white supremacist...

 

[Alpo]

The reason that some of us are here is we've been gun enthusiasts our entire life.

It is unfortunate that we disagree on politics. But, if you want a political echo chamber, perhaps that is better served by sites other than a gun forum. Just as much as I resent the insanity of the left, I also despise what goes on in the far right. If that is unsatisfactory to you, please put me on ignore. Please.

 

[maxwelhse]

The reason that some of us are here is we've been gun enthusiasts our entire life.

It is unfortunate that we disagree on politics. But, if you want a political echo chamber, perhaps that is better served by sites other than a gun forum. Just as much as I resent the insanity of the left, I also despise what goes on in the far right. If that is unsatisfactory to you, please put me on ignore. Please.

Who said echo chamber? How about simply not calling a bunch of black/Hispanic guys white supremacists? Can we start a dialog from that point forward? You know, it's not like a bunch of people in power are repeating this lunacy to further drive an absolutely fake narrative.

If "echo chamber" is really all you took away from what I wrote, I'm deeply saddened that communication has failed this badly because I otherwise have enjoyed our chats.

 

[erasure]

I also despise what goes on in the far right.

Like what?
Just curious.

 

[Alpo]

You need bigger lures to catch the big fish.

 

[Alpo]

Who said echo chamber? How about simply not calling a bunch of black/Hispanic guys white supremacists? Can we start a dialog from that point forward? You know, it's not like a bunch of people in power are repeating this lunacy to further drive an absolutely fake narrative.

If "echo chamber" is really all you took away from what I wrote, I'm deeply saddened that communication has failed this badly because I otherwise have enjoyed our chats.

What I see is a degradation in the bonhomie that existed on this site in the past for "alternate views". And it isn't over major ideological differences.

It's over nits. We choose to be argumentative because that seems to be easier than letting an "opponent's" view go unchallenged. For example, you and Hatin' carried on for PAGES over some minor point (I don't remember what it was). We have larger issues.

Let's not be trapped into the mundane.

 

[churchmouse]

You do know that a man bun is just a pony tail curled up.....

 

[BugI02]

The first guy looks familiar. Baseball player? LeBron? I dunno. But, it isn't Proud Boys.

Identified as Edwin Arthur of LA. Definitely there in support of the Demand Free Speech rally organized by the Proud Boys in DC over the July 4th weekend in 2019

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...309e4e-9f68-11e9-9ed4-c9089972ad5a_story.html

 

[churchmouse]

Just strolling through peoples.

 

[drillsgt]

The reason that some of us are here is we've been gun enthusiasts our entire life.

It is unfortunate that we disagree on politics. But, if you want a political echo chamber, perhaps that is better served by sites other than a gun forum. Just as much as I resent the insanity of the left, I also despise what goes on in the far right. If that is unsatisfactory to you, please put me on ignore. Please.

What exactly do you despise?

 

[BugI02]

You do know that a man bun is just a pony tail curled up.....

View attachment 91730

 

[BugI02]

You need bigger lures to catch the big fish.

I think he was after you, so flypaper would do

 

[maxwelhse]

What I see is a degradation in the bonhomie that existed on this site in the past for "alternate views". And it isn't over major ideological differences.

It's over nits. We choose to be argumentative because that seems to be easier than letting an "opponent's" view go unchallenged. For example, you and Hatin' carried on for PAGES over some minor point (I don't remember what it was). We have larger issues.

Let's not be trapped into the mundane.

Ummm... We're talking about accusing people of being white supremacists and attempting to connect them to the the sitting US president during presidential debate. That's not a small nit.

What I believe I saw was an intentional troll designed to further propagate that hogwash and illicit the exact response it did from someone who I know has better things to say. I may have seen something that wasn't there, but that's up to Kut to explain... which is exactly why I asked.

I was called out on the back and forth with Hatin' and agreed it was silly in the end. I'm not going to die on an arbitrary hill. This isn't an arbitrary point. If your bigger issue is I, personally, should just shut up, you may have a point.