Tell Me Again How Awful HOA’s Are?

[DoggyDaddy]

Along with a tear in the eye of the fake Indian was a big effort to provide the people with a place to put trash.

Yep, it was the "Pitch In" campaign. I remember the big green and white stickers that said that.

 

[Ingomike]

Nope. If you move into a house, you should have a choice to join the HOA.

Otherwise, it's not a choice.

So if a farmer wants to sell five acres next to his house for someone to live and build a house on does the farmer have the freedom to put a permanent restriction against raising livestock on that land?

 

[Jaybird1980]

So if a farmer wants to sell five acres next to his house for someone to live and build a house on does the farmer have the freedom to put a permanent restriction against raising livestock on that land?

IMO He shouldn't, if zoning allows it they should be able to have livestock. If the farmer wants to retain control of the property he shouldn't sell.

 

[Jaybird1980]

So the owners of property put covenants on to protect themselves, once sold to homeowners they could vote to revoke them but apparently they do not find them as objectionable as INGO does. But you are correct if one wants a new home in a subdivision an HOA comes with it, kind of like if you want a new Tesla, a battery comes with it. But if you make it more granular much of life has similar choices.

That's absurd the Tesla is inoperable useless without a battery, does property become useless without an HOA.

It's more like Tesla says you can only use a certain color battery or we will fine you.

 

[Ingomike]

IMO He shouldn't, if zoning allows it they should be able to have livestock. If the farmer wants to retain control of the property he shouldn't sell.

So you would take the farmers freedom away to sell his land how he chooses? What if he wants to sell the land but retain mineral rights? These things are done all the time and are very common…

 

[Ingomike]

That's absurd the Tesla is inoperable useless without a battery, does property become useless without an HOA.

It's more like Tesla says you can only use a certain color battery or we will fine you.

There is no option to buy a gas powered Tesla. It is a take it or leave it proposition. Just like new homes and HOA’s…

 

[Jaybird1980]

So you would take the farmers freedom away to sell his land how he chooses? What if he wants to sell the land but retain mineral rights? These things are done all the time and are very common…

I would take away his "freedoms" to control someone else's property.

If you want control of the property you shouldn't sell it.

 

[Ingomike]

I would take away his "freedoms" to control someone else's property.

If you want control of the property you shouldn't sell it.

Glad you didn’t write the laws…

 

[Jaybird1980]

Glad you didn’t write the laws…

I bet you are, because you want to control other people.

 

[eldirector]

Sounds like we have moved from "what is" into "what it should be".

Deed restrictions and covenants have been a thing since forever. They are simply part of the purchasing contract. Sure, some of it is negotiable, but most simply are not. They are part and parcel of the, uh .... parcel.

Folks say "I want that property without the covenants", but it simply does not work that way. Either you want the property inclusive of all legal attachments and obligations, or you do not want that particular property.

One might claim "but it is MY property. I can do what I want!". Which is true, only up to the point where you already agreed, by contract, that you would (or would not) do certain things.

I agree, some of it kinda sucks. Things like water, mineral, and airspace rights, for example. Buyer Beware, I guess? I have walked away from several properties over the years, simply because I didn't care for the restrictions.

 

[BugI02]

Yeah, or we could just wait for a child to be killed and hear the offender say, "Sorry, it was an accident!" I doubt that you have ever lived in a HOA, with all your comments about how free you are. All freedoms have limitations. Your freedom to swing your arms stops at my body. Ever hear of zoning laws?

Well, what else are you going to do then? Reduce the speed limits and add more stop signs that you say people routinely ignore? Try to enforce traffic laws with HOA fines? Glad you dusted off 'for the children', too. And zoning laws? How are they an answer to the problems you brought up?

I live where HOAs are few because all the issues raised are controlled by the town and enforced by code enforcement employees paid for by the taxes we already pay according to a code that is written by elected officials responsible to those tax payers. No little Hitlers can take over unless we elect them. We recently successfully recalled council members in a special election by referendum because they supported a plan to completely redo one of the cities nicest parks, cutting down most of the trees and relocating popular attractions (pool, senior center) in order to support the construction of a 'performance space' that almost no one except the developer wanted. We have our own police department and if there was a speeding problem in my neighborhood, we could bring it up before council and they would detail police resources to address it with the full weight of the law

It isn't that I am against sensible societal requirements, it is that I am against ineffective strategies that contain few or no checks and balances to achieve that harmony. I took what I partially quoted to be a specious defense of HOAs erroneously based on the idea that they could do a single thing about the complaints that you raised. Were an HOA to attempt to alter or enforce traffic laws, any worthwhile lawyer could get the case thrown out of court in an instant

I pay quite handsomely to live where I do, what you need to realize is that the indifference to your problems I am feigning right now is essentially the same indifference to the problems created for people by HOAs that you seem to be exhibiting for real

 

[Ingomike]

Sounds like we have moved from "what is" into "what it should be".

Deed restrictions and covenants have been a thing since forever. They are simply part of the purchasing contract. Sure, some of it is negotiable, but most simply are not. They are part and parcel of the, uh .... parcel.

Folks say "I want that property without the covenants", but it simply does not work that way. Either you want the property inclusive of all legal attachments and obligations, or you do not want that particular property.

One might claim "but it is MY property. I can do what I want!". Which is true, only up to the point where you already agreed, by contract, that you would (or would not) do certain things.

I agree, some of it kinda sucks. Things like water, mineral, and airspace rights, for example. Buyer Beware, I guess? I have walked away from several properties over the years, simply because I didn't care for the restrictions.

And those deed restrictions run with deed every time the property sells. It takes significant legal action to remove the restrictions.

 

[Ingomike]

No little Hitlers can take over unless we elect them.

Same for an HOA…

 

[BE Mike]

Well, what else are you going to do then? Reduce the speed limits and add more stop signs that you say people routinely ignore? Try to enforce traffic laws with HOA fines? Glad you dusted off 'for the children', too. And zoning laws? How are they an answer to the problems you brought up?

I live where HOAs are few because all the issues raised are controlled by the town and enforced by code enforcement employees paid for by the taxes we already pay according to a code that is written by elected officials responsible to those tax payers. No little Hitlers can take over unless we elect them. We recently successfully recalled council members in a special election by referendum because they supported a plan to completely redo one of the cities nicest parks, cutting down most of the trees and relocating popular attractions (pool, senior center) in order to support the construction of a 'performance space' that almost no one except the developer wanted. We have our own police department and if there was a speeding problem in my neighborhood, we could bring it up before council and they would detail police resources to address it with the full weight of the law

It isn't that I am against sensible societal requirements, it is that I am against ineffective strategies that contain few or no checks and balances to achieve that harmony. I took what I partially quoted to be a specious defense of HOAs erroneously based on the idea that they could do a single thing about the complaints that you raised. Were an HOA to attempt to alter or enforce traffic laws, any worthwhile lawyer could get the case thrown out of court in an instant

I pay quite handsomely to live where I do, what you need to realize is that the indifference to your problems I am feigning right now is essentially the same indifference to the problems created for people by HOAs that you seem to be exhibiting for real

Just to educate you. HOA's have elected representatives. Anyone can serve on the board. Rules are subject to a vote of residents. Our streets are county maintained and the laws are enforced by THE police. I get so tired of people who have never lived in an HOA trying to comment from a position of ignorance. Yes, slow speed limits and stop signs are designed for safety. Kids are the most vulnerable, but adults who walk/ run/ bicycle on the roads (no sidewalks) should be allowed to do so with reasonable safety as well. You seem very upset about something that doesn't affect you.

 

[edporch]

To be fair, car manufacturers could probably help cut down on the littering if they put ashtrays in cars that held more than one cigarette butt. I know that's no longer "socially acceptable" though.

I use a cigar ashtray that fits in the cupholder for when I feel like puffing on a cigar.
No ashes or butts out the window, and I empty it when I get home.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Just to educate you. HOA's have elected representatives. Anyone can serve on the board. Rules are subject to a vote of residents. Our streets are county maintained and the laws are enforced by THE police. I get so tired of people who have never lived in an HOA trying to comment from a position of ignorance. Yes, slow speed limits and stop signs are designed for safety. Kids are the most vulnerable, but adults who walk/ run/ bicycle on the roads (no sidewalks) should be allowed to do so with reasonable safety as well. You seem very upset about something that doesn't affect you.

I’ve never lived in San Francisco either, that doesn’t mean I can’t recognize problems with their local government and regulations.

 

[femurphy77]

Don't really have a dog in this fight but I'm curious; a common refrain on INGO is "Follow the money". HOA's aren't there to prevent little pink houses, somebody has figured out how to make money on them. THAT's the attraction of HOA's. . . . the developer can keep making money for years on land he no longer owns.

I'll go back to ignoring the thread, just saw an opportunity to poor some gas on the fire.

 

[Hoosierdood]

Don't really have a dog in this fight but I'm curious; a common refrain on INGO is "Follow the money". HOA's aren't there to prevent little pink houses, somebody has figured out how to make money on them. THAT's the attraction of HOA's. . . . the developer can keep making money for years on land he no longer owns.

I'll go back to ignoring the thread, just saw an opportunity to poor some gas on the fire.

I can’t speak for every HOA but I know in our association, there is no developer involved. All money is held by the association. I get a monthly report on the financials. Our association plans a budget every year and doesn’t really make any money. All money left over is held in a special projects account for road repairs, roofing, etc.

 

[KingLouisIX1250]

This is about living in subdivisions on small close lots where you neighbors can intrude on you and can make things unsightly. The neighbors are losing market value because many folks will not buy next to this guy and some will not buy in the neighborhood he is in. He is literally costing his neighbors money and there is nothing they can do about it.


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Man Paints His Dream House In Pepto-Bismol Pink & Disgruntled Neighbors Can’t Do Anything About It

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www.apost.com

HOA’s bear bear part of the blame when people refuse to move in or talk bad about them. If it were simply about retaining property value via preventing your neighbors from doing something this ridiculous, few would oppose them. But HOA’s are notorious for making ridiculously restrictive rules: shed size, where you can put your trash containers, forbidding boat or trailer on your driveway etc. Let’s face the fact- HOA’s are full of control freak Karens who ruined a decent idea, by forgetting reasonable major concerns and instead harassing people over the length of their grass.
HOA’s are a poor substitute for functioning property rights law. Instead of abdicating the right of decorum or use of property to a panel of appointed dopes who only care about what they think your property should look like, property owners should have the right to sue in civil court IF they can demonstrate harm to value of property when attempting to sell.

 

[Lpherr]