Speed Reload vs Mag Retention from Joe Teti

[Stainer]

There you go


[ame="http://youtu.be/4WyG63-GI1k"]http://youtu.be/4WyG63-GI1k[/ame]

 

[cedartop]

I guess that answers my question on whether or not he is putting on an act on dual survivor, another show which has gone down the toliet.

 

[cedartop]

Oh yeah, and BTW. I don't know anyone who teaches to retain a mag during the middle of a firefight.

 

[David Rose]

His web site is worth a look. josephteti.com Training Philosophies page.

 

[45fan]

Oh yeah, and BTW. I don't know anyone who teaches to retain a mag during the middle of a firefight.

Unless things have changed considerably since I came home, the Marine Corps does. Its one of the stipulations in any rapid fire stage during rifle qualification, and any of the combat courses I went through Mag retention was second only survival.

But I agree, if its either getting shot or loosing a mag, I will let it lay wherever it lands, at least until the lead stops flying...

 

[cedartop]

Unless things have changed considerably since I came home, the Marine Corps does. Its one of the stipulations in any rapid fire stage during rifle qualification, and any of the combat courses I went through Mag retention was second only survival.

But I agree, if its either getting shot or loosing a mag, I will let it lay wherever it lands, at least until the lead stops flying...

Gotcha, I was thinking of it from a private instructor standpoint. Don't get me wrong, we teach to hang on to mags when you can, like during a proactive reload. We won't however risk your life to keep a mag during the middle of a firefight. Again though, there are big differences between the battlefield and the street.

 

[rhino]

I guess that answers my question on whether or not he is putting on an act on dual survivor, another show which has gone down the toliet.

Right or or wrong, he clearly has no doubts associated with his opinions.

 

[cedartop]

Right or or wrong, he clearly has no doubts associated with his opinions.

Thats not a problem. After having watched some of the new episode's of the show with him as the replacement, I assumed it was the producers just trying to create viewers by putting a lot of controversy between him and Cody. I see now that it is just the way that he is.

Given his experience, his opinion is more valid than many, for that particular situation. (battle)

 

[Stainer]

Feelings on Teti aside, I think mag retention has it's place, but can sometimes be over-emphasized. There was a reason why they found brass casings in the pockets of officers who were involved in shootings during the revolver era. Training. During their training, they would put their brass in their pocket to keep from having to pick it up later. This costs seconds during a fight and I would venture to say it probably cost some lives.

If you are retaining a mag for the purpose that you might need that 1-4 rounds later in the fight, I think your thinking is skewed. If you are retaining the mag because you have a lull in the combat, are in the shizzle, and are going to need to fill those mags again to use them in the fight later, then ok.

If you are shooting it out with someone, get rid of the mag and get a new one in. Don't try counting rounds in your head to know how many you have left in your mag. If you have a need to reload, ditch it and get fresh ammo.

There is a reason our trainers tell us not to pick up anything off the ground until we are done with our entire course of fire. If they trained us to pick up the mag in between strings of fire, you might have guys trying to pick up their mags in between shooting it out with the bad guy.

 

[cedartop]

Feelings on Teti aside, I think mag retention has it's place, but can sometimes be over-emphasized. There was a reason why they found brass casings in the pockets of officers who were involved in shootings during the revolver era. Training. During their training, they would put their brass in their pocket to keep from having to pick it up later. This costs seconds during a fight and I would venture to say it probably cost some lives.

If you are retaining a mag for the purpose that you might need that 1-4 rounds later in the fight, I think your thinking is skewed. If you are retaining the mag because you have a lull in the combat, are in the shizzle, and are going to need to fill those mags again to use them in the fight later, then ok.

If you are shooting it out with someone, get rid of the mag and get a new one in. Don't try counting rounds in your head to know how many you have left in your mag. If you have a need to reload, ditch it and get fresh ammo.

There is a reason our trainers tell us not to pick up anything off the ground until we are done with our entire course of fire. If they trained us to pick up the mag in between strings of fire, you might have guys trying to pick up their mags in between shooting it out with the bad guy.

Yep, I believe we are in agreement.

 

[rhino]

I don't believe I'll be able to count rounds anyway, in the unlikely event I ever have to get busy. I think either slide lock or an early solution to the problem are probably more likely results.

 

[45fan]

I don't believe I'll be able to count rounds anyway, in the unlikely event I ever have to get busy. I think either slide lock or an early solution to the problem are probably more likely results.

Sounds like my thoughts exactly. I know what I was trained to do, but if I am taking fire, the LAST thing I am going to do is stop to pick up my empty mags, or count rounds. If the gun locks back, or stops shooting, drop the mag, load new mag, slingshot the slide, and get back into the fight. This is how I train as a civilian, it is how I work with my wife when she comes out to train with me. Besides that, in our lives, if we get into a situation like this, leaving the mag until after the fight could be helpful in retracing our steps, making a more clear picture for us to give our statements when the police do show up.

 

[Dave Doehrman]

This is ancient history, but back in 1967 and 1968 we loaded tracers as the first three rounds into our M16 magazines and then topped it off with ball ammo. In the middle of a firefight you didn't have to count rounds. When you saw that first tracer pop out, you knew you had two more rounds before you were going to be out of ammo. You could evaluate the situation and prepare for the magazine swap.

This had some drawbacks: tracers work both ways making it easy to spot your location at night, after a while the enemy caught on to the tracer / magazine swap. Some guys would load 5 rounds of ball then 3 tracers and top off with ball. This worked well for us at the time.

At no time in any firefight did I ever worry about magazine retention. We carried 15-20 loaded magazines. I never got down to my last 5-6 magazines. If I did I would have started worrying about finding them to reload but luckily I never had to do that.

 

[iChokePeople]

Meh. Bullets are a crutch for the weak. A real man, when faced with a problem to solve and a lack of bullets, would be equally comfortable using the empty firearm as a bludgeoning tool to persuade his enemies to cease their dastardly deeds. He would also see the firearm as optional, realizing that bullets can be inserted manually rather than fired from a gun.

 

[rhino]

Meh. Bullets are a crutch for the weak. A real man, when faced with a problem to solve and a lack of bullets, would be equally comfortable using the empty firearm as a bludgeoning tool to persuade his enemies to cease their dastardly deeds. He would also see the firearm as optional, realizing that bullets can be inserted manually rather than fired from a gun.

Well, there is that.

I think the gun is helpful because it helps the bullets to get going really, really fast.

 

[iChokePeople]

Well, there is that.

I think the gun is helpful because it helps the bullets to get going really, really fast.

True, but you lose that personal touch.

 

[rhino]

True, but you lose that personal touch.

I don't like touching dudes.

 

[lovemachine]

I don't like touching dudes.

That's not what bwframe said.

 

[iChokePeople]

I don't like touching dudes.

This thread just got WEIRD. Someone get this back on the rails.

 

[theblackknight]

Unless things have changed considerably since I came home, the Marine Corps does.

You must be what they call, a , old.


The cream corn now teaches speed and tac reloads when needed.