So, is privatizing police duties the start of a trend? Article within... (Chicago)

[mettle]

This, to me, just sounds like the start of a bad trend towards hiring thugs.

Chicago Mayor to Outsource Policing to Private Firm - PoliceLink

Chicago Mayor to Outsource Policing to Private Firm


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Chicago Mayor Richard Daley has proposed outsourcing some police work to private security firms. (AP)

Chicago Tribune via YellowBrix
March 24, 2009

CHICAGO – As the city and its police union near the two-year mark in contract negotiations, Mayor Richard Daley on Saturday said a proposal to allow private security guards to write tickets is worth exploring.
Only Chicago police officers can issue citations, but two far South Side aldermen want armed security guards who patrol business districts in their wards to have that authority as well.
Daley said allowing the guards to ticket people for graffiti, parking violations and other minor infractions could free Chicago officers to concentrate on combating violent crime. The move could also generate revenue for the city while enforcing minor ordinances.



“It’s not a bad idea,” Daley said. “The more police you have out there … I like the concept … it will help us.”
The police union denounced the idea last week. Fresh off a no-confidence vote by a small number of unionized officers, Police Supt. Jody Weis was more cautious than Daley about the security guard ticketing idea.
Weis said he doesn’t know how the armed guards are trained, since they are hired by a private firm. He also said many officers don’t like issuing citations and might welcome a move that could free them of those duties.
“It’s in the concept phase; we have to have a lot of discussions,” Weis said. “Anything we can do in today’s times that would put more officers on the street to address crimes of violence is worth looking at.”
Ald. Anthony Beale (9th) and Ald. John Pope (10th) support the private security proposal. Special business districts already have hired armed guards to patrol 103rd Street from State Street to Corliss Avenue and Michigan Avenue between 100th and 116th Streets, Beale said.
The police union’s last contract has been expired since the end of June 2007. The Daley administration and the Fraternal Order of Police have been negotiating but have yet to reach a new deal. City Hall also has been battling a budget shortfall it estimates could reach $200 million this year amid a sinking economy

 

[4sarge]

Hmmmm, where did I hear something similar before from another Chicago guy. Something about his own defense force separate from the military but equally armed. Must be something in the water up there

 

[printcraft]

Private Police?

OCP. Worked well in this fiction.

 

[finity]

Let me get this straight. So you don't really think the free-market can do a better job of policing than the government? I thought that was part of the libertarian ideal. Or is it just that you now don't like it because the idea is being considered by liberals in Chicago? If the idea was coming from conservatives in some other place it would be OK? I guess you think conservatives would never betray the public trust, huh?

No, I don't think its a good idea either.

 

[96harley]

Not a good idea. Chicago would become a police state thanks to the crooked elected official on whose shoulders the guilt truly lies.

 

[Bubbajms]

Printcraft beat me to it.. OCP to the rescue!!

 

[dross]

Let me get this straight. So you don't really think the free-market can do a better job of policing than the government? I thought that was part of the libertarian ideal. Or is it just that you now don't like it because the idea is being considered by liberals in Chicago? If the idea was coming from conservatives in some other place it would be OK? I guess you think conservatives would never betray the public trust, huh?

No, I don't think its a good idea either.

You may not have noticed, but not everyone on this forum is a libertarian, small "l" or large "L".

But that aside, there's nothing that goes against libertarian principle about having government be the sole police force. Protecting against the initiation of force is one of the actually legitimate areas the government should be involved in.

That said, I don't have a problem with trying some private policing. I just think it needs special regulation and interest by the government. There's nothing magical about being a government employee, as opposed to being a the employee of a private firm. The only question is the behavior of the employee and the organization.

 

[Chefcook]

OCP. Worked well in this fiction.

 

[Go Devil]

I prefer a proficient neighborhood watch, but not every street is like mine, inhabited with brothers in arms.

 

[Armed & Christian]

Let me get this straight. So you don't really think the free-market can do a better job of policing than the government? I thought that was part of the libertarian ideal. Or is it just that you now don't like it because the idea is being considered by liberals in Chicago? If the idea was coming from conservatives in some other place it would be OK? I guess you think conservatives would never betray the public trust, huh?

No, I don't think its a good idea either.

The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with the private Contracting firms being involved in propping up our military. Because it is a capitalist venture, the bottom line is to turn a profit. Now, if Blackwater and these other firms are making loads of $$$ so long as they can remain involved in the war, how interested are they going to be in helping to establish peace there? If you're a thinking man, you'll have said to yourself, "Well, not at all."

By the same token, IL is going to pay (out of taxpayer $$) a private firm to write as many tickets as it takes to generate enough revenue to keep Daly and his cronies convinced that privatizing this aspect of the PD was a good idea. If you need police, hire police. If you need soldiers, recruit soldiers. These positions are, by necessity, government positions; funded by the taxpayers. The idea is that we should only spend as much as necessary in these areas. Because they don't turn a profit, but provide a service, they are a necessary "burden" to society. When they are mixed with Capitalist philosophy, they become interested primarily in sustaining the problems that make them necessary, and that is a very bad thing.

 

[mikea46996]

It ain't gonna happen the Union will never let it happen. Besides the area that they want to do it in a bunch of Paul Blarts won't last a day. I grew up on the southside it is a pretty rough area.
To this day I have to fight the urge to duck and cover when I here gun shots...LOL

I feel for the first bunch a lot of guys are gonna lose their lives for the $12.50 an hour they are going to pay them. Oh and I have an Great Uncle of CPD he says from what he heard they would NOT be armed. But he also says the REAL cops will all get the flu at the same time if they try to push this in.

 

[mikea46996]

The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with the private Contracting firms being involved in propping up our military. Because it is a capitalist venture, the bottom line is to turn a profit. Now, if Blackwater and these other firms are making loads of $$$ so long as they can remain involved in the war, how interested are they going to be in helping to establish peace there? If you're a thinking man, you'll have said to yourself, "Well, not at all."

By the same token, IL is going to pay (out of taxpayer $$) a private firm to write as many tickets as it takes to generate enough revenue to keep Daly and his cronies convinced that privatizing this aspect of the PD was a good idea. If you need police, hire police. If you need soldiers, recruit soldiers. These positions are, by necessity, government positions; funded by the taxpayers. The idea is that we should only spend as much as necessary in these areas. Because they don't turn a profit, but provide a service, they are a necessary "burden" to society. When they are mixed with Capitalist philosophy, they become interested primarily in sustaining the problems that make them necessary, and that is a very bad thing.

That has got to be the best comment I have ever read in here. Makes 100% sense.

 

[Dr Falken]

In my mind there are certian things that should stay in the commons, and one of them is the common defense/protection. I really like the idea that the People of Illinois can not go around armed, but a private security company can. Perhaps if the people had more ability to defend themselves, there would be a little less crime. But what this is about is writing tickets, and you do not need to be armed for that, but to privatize that, on top of the idiotic and bureaucratic system that Chicago already has in place is just pure genius. I still owe Chicago a few hundred dollars because I forgot to put a quarter in the meter for 15 min. If anyone remembers the song "The Lincoln Park Pirates" by Steve Goodman, you can see why this is a horrible idea. That being said, I try not to go to Chicago anymore anyhow.

 

[96harley]

Your armed citizen is your best protection.

Long story short.

Had a thug complain someone pulled a gun on him. Jumped the hoops, located the accused. He was a veteran. We chatted. Older gentleman with permit etc. which another officer had in his possession after he located and stopped the accused. I gave the man his handgun, permit, and driver's license back. Let him re-insert the mag as I stood next to his car. Was I concerned? No, this guy had a clean record and my gut feeling told me his account of what happened was far closer to the truth than the other man's account.

Again, we don't need a police state. The government works for us. We pay their salaries thus "I" owe my empolyer the taxpayers more loyalty than some el supremo politician no matter what level at which he has seated himself on the political food chain.

Power to the people baby and pass the ammunition. In my case it would be that box of .45 ACP.

 

[Earl Sinclair]

I am reminded of the sequence in the old Heavy Metal cartoon where the cabbie goes to the police to report a problem and is given a price list from a sloppy, disinterested desk-ornament, followed by the cabbie leaving in disgust. No, wait - that's Chicago's finest today.

Let's see, a private contractor doing traditional police work that is entirely beholden to Chicago machine political patronage for it's existence and support, practicing state-sponsored intimidation and extortion. Is this the AmeriKorps thread?

Private vs. public, I'm not sure anyone would notice the difference, at least in Chicago. This is most likely just another club Daley is using to try and beat a contract out of the union.

 

[Armed & Christian]

That has got to be the best comment I have ever read in here. Makes 100% sense.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Let me get this straight. So you don't really think the free-market can do a better job of policing than the government? I thought that was part of the libertarian ideal. Or is it just that you now don't like it because the idea is being considered by liberals in Chicago? If the idea was coming from conservatives in some other place it would be OK? I guess you think conservatives would never betray the public trust, huh?

No, I don't think its a good idea either.

You make a very valid point. As a Libertarian myself, there is a really good argument for free-market-provided police. Governments don't work within budgets, private entities do.

That said, I'm really afraid of transferring the currently given police powers to private entities. If we're going to privatize security like this, it needs to be done very carefully with a heavy emphasis on protecting individual liberties. Additionally, there would need to be a very clear & public oversight upon any company providing such policing.

 

[flagtag]

Daily had laid off police officers to save money. So, how could he afford a private force?

 

[finity]

The problem I have with it is the same problem that I have with the private Contracting firms being involved in propping up our military. Because it is a capitalist venture, the bottom line is to turn a profit. Now, if Blackwater and these other firms are making loads of $$$ so long as they can remain involved in the war, how interested are they going to be in helping to establish peace there? If you're a thinking man, you'll have said to yourself, "Well, not at all."

By the same token, IL is going to pay (out of taxpayer $$) a private firm to write as many tickets as it takes to generate enough revenue to keep Daly and his cronies convinced that privatizing this aspect of the PD was a good idea. If you need police, hire police. If you need soldiers, recruit soldiers. These positions are, by necessity, government positions; funded by the taxpayers. The idea is that we should only spend as much as necessary in these areas. Because they don't turn a profit, but provide a service, they are a necessary "burden" to society. When they are mixed with Capitalist philosophy, they become interested primarily in sustaining the problems that make them necessary, and that is a very bad thing.

+1

I agree. Thats exactly what I've said before in another thread. The profit motive is not good when dealing with the public trust. The people who get the best service (police, fire, justice etc.) will be the ones who can pay (the most) for it. The rest of us will get screwed.

 

[finity]

You make a very valid point. As a Libertarian myself, there is a really good argument for free-market-provided police. Governments don't work within budgets, private entities do.

There actually are some governments that try to. Even if not then who ends up paying the private companies? We do. You really think that private companies who get paid by government contracts don't screw that government (IOW, us) over if they get the chance? If government contracts weren't so lucrative there wouldn't be such a fuss about trying to get them. You think all those defense contractors that charge $100 for a hammer & $600 for a toilet seat are honest & upstanding? The same would happen with the contractors hired to provide police protection...unless it was highly regulated. If that's the case then why not just keep the police directly under the control of the government & cut out the middle-man?

That said, I'm really afraid of transferring the currently given police powers to private entities. If we're going to privatize security like this, it needs to be done very carefully with a heavy emphasis on protecting individual liberties. Additionally, there would need to be a very clear & public oversight upon any company providing such policing.

That concern falls directly inline with what I've said above. Are private companies bound by the constraints of the Constitution that the government is? We all know the answer to that, with very limited exceptions, is no. That has been argued repeatedly.

If you can pay for them then your rights will be upheld if not then you'd be on your own.

There are some things that the government really does do better than private companies.