Snowden

[Shadow01]

Not a fan of PBS, but in an attempt to find more interviews of government officials after 9/11 I ran across these 2 videos. What is your feelings on Snowden and the NSA along with corporations that signed on?

 

[jwamplerusa]

Snowden was probably a hero. In a properly functioning First amendment protected journalistic focused environment every one of his disclosures and allegations would have been thoroughly investigated by a free press and exposed to the light of day the malfeasance of our government. Elected officials and bureaucrats alike would have been charged, tried, and convicted of many crimes in direct violation of the Constitution.

Instead in very short order a complicit media dropped any pretense of investigation and took the regime's line the Snowden was a traitor. In reality the crime was the subversion of the principles of the Constitution by those who took an oath to defend and support it.

If you bothered to go through some of the disclosures at the time, you can see much of what Snowden spoke of creeping into the rest of the government. Just look at representative Jordan's subcommittee on weaponization of the federal government.

 

[Twangbanger]

Snowden was probably a hero. In a properly functioning First amendment protected journalistic focused environment every one of his disclosures and allegations would have been thoroughly investigated by a free press and exposed to the light of day the malfeasance of our government. Elected officials and bureaucrats alike would have been charged, tried, and convicted of many crimes in direct violation of the Constitution.

Instead in very short order a complicit media dropped any pretense of investigation and took the regime's line the Snowden was a traitor. In reality the crime was the subversion of the principles of the Constitution by those who took an oath to defend and support it.

If you bothered to go through some of the disclosures at the time, you can see much of what Snowden spoke of creeping into the rest of the government. Just look at representative Jordan's subcommittee on weaponization of the federal government.

Don't forget how the Old Military Bulls hopped on the establishment bandwagon..."He's endangerin' ah boys in tha Field!" Some on INGO, even.

I guess at that time, "things just hadn't gotten bad enough yet."

Some of those same people *now* think the country is lost.

 

[BugI02]

Snowden was probably a hero. In a properly functioning First amendment protected journalistic focused environment every one of his disclosures and allegations would have been thoroughly investigated by a free press and exposed to the light of day the malfeasance of our government. Elected officials and bureaucrats alike would have been charged, tried, and convicted of many crimes in direct violation of the Constitution.

Instead in very short order a complicit media dropped any pretense of investigation and took the regime's line the Snowden was a traitor. In reality the crime was the subversion of the principles of the Constitution by those who took an oath to defend and support it.

If you bothered to go through some of the disclosures at the time, you can see much of what Snowden spoke of creeping into the rest of the government. Just look at representative Jordan's subcommittee on weaponization of the federal government.

 

[Ark]

The American people gobbling up and regurgitating the "traitor" narrative to defend a government that was reading their mail was perhaps the moment I first began my personal journey of losing all regard for this country's people

 

[Libertarian01]

My understanding of the problem with the Espionage Act is that there is NO defense.

Say someone breaks into your home and threatens your family with a knife, so you shoot and kill them. Is that murder? The way the Espionage Act is worded then "Yes" you will be found automatically guilty and go to prison. The Act allows for no defense of any kind. Either you did it or you did not. Self defense or defense of others is no defense.

You find corruption, illegal activities, plotting a real murder, it does not matter. According to the EA if you reveal the information you have come across you are guilty without any ability to mount a defense.

Almost every crime we can commit as citizens has some sort of defense or mitigating circumstance. Speeding? Well, someone was taking a dying person to the hospital. Or the old "wife giving birth" story. Even insanity can be used for a variety of crimes as a defense. I'm not saying someone would be found "not guilty" but at least they could bring it up.

In one interview I saw many years ago with Snowden he'd be content to come home and face charges in a court of law IF he could mount any sort of defense but the law doesn't allow it.

He came across an organization or organizations of the US Government violating the citizens constitutional rights. He complained inside the system up the chain of command. No one acknowledged the violation(s) or cared to even pay attention. So what was he to do? In his case he decided all internal checks and balances had or were failing, so he went external.

And Snowden did not release the information. He gave it to a reporter who had experience dealing with classified information. He allowed someone else to verify and choose what to release and what not to. As a matter of fact the reporter withheld and is still withholding a good deal of sensitive information. It wasn't a blanket dump like with Wikileaks.

What is the definition of a hero? In my mind at least part of it would include a person willing to sacrifice a great deal in order to help others. So to my thinking he is at least partially a hero. The rest? We'll see...

Regards,

Doug

 

[Shadow01]

The security of the constitution and its implementation is more important than stopping a terrorist attack. Sorry but our lives are not above the security of that ideal. If we were, then we would not send men and women off to die for it.

 

[bgcatty]

I’m amazed that Snowden is even still alive vis-a-vis what happened to Navalny?

 

[BigRed]

We could use more Snowdens and fewer statists

 

[Shadow01]

I’m amazed that Snowden is even still alive vis-a-vis what happened to Navalny?

I would say that the US is not as adept at the art of elimination as Mossad or the KGB.

 

[bgcatty]

I would say that the US is not as adept at the art of elimination as Mossad or the KGB.

The Clintons and others have a long, long list of people who were “silenced” about their corruption and scandals. For instance Steve Foster an attorney who supposedly committed suicide but the investigation revealed otherwise.
Whatever you may think the dark state and our government is doing that is bad, the reality is that it is much, much worse and nefarious.
Ouch!

 

[blain]

Were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, James Madison, etc, guilty of sedition and treason against England & King George III?

 

[jwamplerusa]

Were George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, James Madison, etc, guilty of sedition and treason against England & King George III?

Yes, they full well understood this when they pledged their lives and fortunes to the goal of independence and liberty.

 

[DadSmith]

DEA surveillance program shows why Congress may ‘go slow’ on FISA renewal - Washington Examiner

Newly released details about a controversial mass surveillance program shed light on the pitfalls of government data acquisition programs.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

I put this here because it directly involves what Snowden did.

 

[Shadow01]

DEA surveillance program shows why Congress may ‘go slow’ on FISA renewal - Washington Examiner

Newly released details about a controversial mass surveillance program shed light on the pitfalls of government data acquisition programs.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

I put this here because it directly involves what Snowden did.

Until the citizens can financially cripple government employees for wrong doing or lack of action, this will continue.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Until the citizens can financially cripple government employees for wrong doing or lack of action, this will continue.

Rope, lots of rope.

 

[Tombs]

Snowden was a scumbag with a savior complex.

Look up his work history and prior actions if you believe he was doing this for altruistic reasons. I've had friends in the past in intelligence circles, and all of them consider him a complete jackass, not for leaking the information, but because of how he went about it. They could provide a much better rundown on how many times he failed his American civil rights tests for his job field, and how he gave absolutely zero ****s about the average American citizen being spied on.

There are people who do these things for legitimate purposes, and an example of that would be Assange.

 

[Twangbanger]

Snowden was a scumbag with a savior complex.

Look up his work history and prior actions if you believe he was doing this for altruistic reasons. I've had friends in the past in intelligence circles, and all of them consider him a complete jackass, not for leaking the information, but because of how he went about it. They could provide a much better rundown on how many times he failed his American civil rights tests for his job field, and how he gave absolutely zero ****s about the average American citizen being spied on.

There are people who do these things for legitimate purposes, and an example of that would be Assange.

"...American civil rights tests for his job field..."

 

[Tombs]

"...American civil rights tests for his job field..."

They do testing in intelligence job fields like this. It's called oversight training.

 

[Shadow01]

Snowden was a scumbag with a savior complex.

Look up his work history and prior actions if you believe he was doing this for altruistic reasons. I've had friends in the past in intelligence circles, and all of them consider him a complete jackass, not for leaking the information, but because of how he went about it. They could provide a much better rundown on how many times he failed his American civil rights tests for his job field, and how he gave absolutely zero ****s about the average American citizen being spied on.

There are people who do these things for legitimate purposes, and an example of that would be Assange.

Snowden’s actions may have been wrong. The people he worked for were just as wrong if not more. His punishment should match theirs. That includes Bush and Obama.