Smith and Wesson 1854 Lever Gun 44 mag

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  • drillsgt

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    108   0   0
    Nov 29, 2009
    9,582
    149
    Sioux Falls, SD
    like others I just don't get more than $1,000 for a lever gun. Much less 3.
    for that I'd go find a classic JM rather than an untested brand.
    A thousand is pretty much normal now for anything of quality. Lever guns are more complicated to machine and assemble than a Glock or a PSA AR-15. I think the actual cost is just coming back to reality vs. the cheap Marlins we remember that they were probably losing money on. Even 'cheap' Rossi's are way up in price now. Somewhere along the line, and i'm the same way, we started to think of lever actions as the cheap guns and it's just not that way anymore.
     

    92FSTech

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Dec 24, 2020
    1,049
    113
    North Central
    A thousand is pretty much normal now for anything of quality. Lever guns are more complicated to machine and assemble than a Glock or a PSA AR-15. I think the actual cost is just coming back to reality vs. the cheap Marlins we remember that they were probably losing money on. Even 'cheap' Rossi's are way up in price now. Somewhere along the line, and i'm the same way, we started to think of lever actions as the cheap guns and it's just not that way anymore.
    I got into leverguns, Marlins specifically, because I appreciated the value of a quality tool that was pretty much available to the average guy. Growing up, most of my buddys' first "real" guns were a 336 or a Winchester 94. And their dads and grandpas had them on the rack in thier own bedrooms, too.

    I didn't really have a family legacy of firearms, and my first lever-action was a Marlin 1894 in .357 that I bought after Indiana opened up deer hunting to pistol caliber carbines. I'm not sure how popular those PCCs were outside of cowboy shooting before that happened, but mine demanded a premium after the law change...I paid $650 used, when you could still get a used 336 in .30-30 for under $400 at any LGS. The legalization of PCCs for deer definitely had an impact on prices in this part of the country, and the rifle cartridge guns like .30-30, .35 Remington, and .45-70 were probably somewhat undervalued, simply because there was no significant practical and legal use for them, and thus less demand (I bought my 1895 guide gun in .45-70 for $500 NIB at Midwest a year or two before it became legal for deer hunting in Indiana...that sure changed!).

    Then the law changed again to allow high-powered rifles for deer and those guns suddenly developed wide practical appeal to a lot of people (or at least a legal basis to convince our wives that "I need this" :D). Hollywood also played a part with movies like Wind River and Jurrasic Park, and the youtubers have jumped on board as well. You also have the contingent who view them as a "legislation-proof" option, because they assume they'll still be allowed to own them if the government passes some hypothetical law that bans ownership of semi-autos (seems like kind of a defeatist approach to me, since I figure if that DOES happen, they're eventually coming for ALL your guns, not just you ARs and AKs...but what do I know). It all kinda hit around the same time, and there's clearly been a huge spike in demand. Add our out-of-control inflation to that, and you get what we see today.

    It hurts me a little because I bought mine because I simply enjoyed shooting them, and for me they were pretty much cheap, utilitarian range toys to maybe occasionally hunt with or get rid of varmints around the property. Now I've got some that I'm afraid to take out of the safe because that $400 gun is worth 5x what I paid for it, and if I break it I'll never be able to justify the cost to replace it.
     

    drillsgt

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    108   0   0
    Nov 29, 2009
    9,582
    149
    Sioux Falls, SD
    I got into leverguns, Marlins specifically, because I appreciated the value of a quality tool that was pretty much available to the average guy. Growing up, most of my buddys' first "real" guns were a 336 or a Winchester 94. And their dads and grandpas had them on the rack in thier own bedrooms, too.

    I didn't really have a family legacy of firearms, and my first lever-action was a Marlin 1894 in .357 that I bought after Indiana opened up deer hunting to pistol caliber carbines. I'm not sure how popular those PCCs were outside of cowboy shooting before that happened, but mine demanded a premium after the law change...I paid $650 used, when you could still get a used 336 in .30-30 for under $400 at any LGS. The legalization of PCCs for deer definitely had an impact on prices in this part of the country, and the rifle cartridge guns like .30-30, .35 Remington, and .45-70 were probably somewhat undervalued, simply because there was no significant practical and legal use for them, and thus less demand (I bought my 1895 guide gun in .45-70 for $500 NIB at Midwest a year or two before it became legal for deer hunting in Indiana...that sure changed!).

    Then the law changed again to allow high-powered rifles for deer and those guns suddenly developed wide practical appeal to a lot of people (or at least a legal basis to convince our wives that "I need this" :D). Hollywood also played a part with movies like Wind River and Jurrasic Park, and the youtubers have jumped on board as well. You also have the contingent who view them as a "legislation-proof" option, because they assume they'll still be allowed to own them if the government passes some hypothetical law that bans ownership of semi-autos (seems like kind of a defeatist approach to me, since I figure if that DOES happen, they're eventually coming for ALL your guns, not just you ARs and AKs...but what do I know). It all kinda hit around the same time, and there's clearly been a huge spike in demand. Add our out-of-control inflation to that, and you get what we see today.

    It hurts me a little because I bought mine because I simply enjoyed shooting them, and for me they were pretty much cheap, utilitarian range toys to maybe occasionally hunt with or get rid of varmints around the property. Now I've got some that I'm afraid to take out of the safe because that $400 gun is worth 5x what I paid for it, and if I break it I'll never be able to justify the cost to replace it.
    I think many of us can relate to your post. My first deer gun when I was around 15 was a Marlin 336 in .35 Rem with a scope. I grew up in Michigan where lever actions were a dime a dozen, all the gun shops always had used Winchesters and Marlins. It wasn't too long ago that you'd still see plenty of used ones well under 400.00. When Marlin went out of business it changed the used market for those dramatically. Even before that you had people hyping the JM nonsense driving prices up too. I'd still have a 336 in .35 but ammo is just too expensive now. I've always liked Levers and enjoy this bit of resurgence that they are getting.
     

    1nderbeard

    Master
    Local Business Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    38   0   0
    Apr 3, 2017
    2,486
    113
    Hendricks County
    A thousand is pretty much normal now for anything of quality. Lever guns are more complicated to machine and assemble than a Glock or a PSA AR-15. I think the actual cost is just coming back to reality vs. the cheap Marlins we remember that they were probably losing money on. Even 'cheap' Rossi's are way up in price now. Somewhere along the line, and i'm the same way, we started to think of lever actions as the cheap guns and it's just not that way anymore.
    I think the Marlin asset sale just broke the market. They'd been doing it for years and could make good guns cheaply. When they sold the machines/knowledge/workmanship was just "lost." You can't replace a workman with 25 years on the line hand fitting parts. Duplicating decades of experience is very costly.

    Henry was always more expensive.
    Ruger is going to be more expensive, because they're trying to re invent the "old" Marlin method.

    Not withstanding inflation is killing everything, and the 'tactical lever gun' is a big Youtube fad now too.

    Give it a few years and there will be a new thing.
     

    mcapo

    aka Bandit
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Mar 19, 2016
    20,310
    149
    East of Hoosier45 - West of T-dogg
    A thousand is pretty much normal now for anything of quality. Lever guns are more complicated to machine and assemble than a Glock or a PSA AR-15. I think the actual cost is just coming back to reality vs. the cheap Marlins we remember that they were probably losing money on. Even 'cheap' Rossi's are way up in price now. Somewhere along the line, and i'm the same way, we started to think of lever actions as the cheap guns and it's just not that way anymore.

    I don’t care how many facts you throw around.

    I want circa 2000 prices with 2024 income levels and I won’t be happy until it happens.

    and why we are at it, I want circa 1965 mil surp prices.
     

    drillsgt

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    108   0   0
    Nov 29, 2009
    9,582
    149
    Sioux Falls, SD
    I don’t care how many facts you throw around.

    I want circa 2000 prices with 2024 income levels and I won’t be happy until it happens.

    and why we are at it, I want circa 1965 mil surp prices.
    You mean guns don't just stay the same price forever lol. I wouldn't mind picking up some FA's at pre-1986 prices.
     

    mcapo

    aka Bandit
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Mar 19, 2016
    20,310
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    East of Hoosier45 - West of T-dogg
    You mean guns don't just stay the same price forever lol. I wouldn't mind picking up some FA's at pre-1986 prices.
    Without going into economic and political causes, I believe that many "commodities" held pent up inflationary pressure that all let loose in the 2015 to 2023 period.

    Now if you ask my 26 year old kids about lever gun prices, they will tell you they have always been expensive.

    As to SW, I understand the basis for the price and I imagine it will sell very well BUT I think they could have captured market share with slightly lower price point and more caliber choices at the initial launch. I'd like to see 357, 30-30 and 45/70...all for $999. :laugh:
     

    ECS686

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Dec 9, 2017
    1,677
    113
    Brazil
    I think the Marlin asset sale just broke the market. They'd been doing it for years and could make good guns cheaply. When they sold the machines/knowledge/workmanship was just "lost." You can't replace a workman with 25 years on the line hand fitting parts. Duplicating decades of experience is very costly.

    Henry was always more expensive.
    Ruger is going to be more expensive, because they're trying to re invent the "old" Marlin method.

    Not withstanding inflation is killing everything, and the 'tactical lever gun' is a big Youtube fad now too.

    Give it a few years and there will be a new thing.
    I mentioned this a few pages back the main issue was they (Ruger) had to discard a lot of the machines as they were unserviceable so they started out from scratch for a large chunk of this. And S&W also stated from scratch as they didn’t even buy a companies leftivers

     

    Lucar186

    Threat to Democracy
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 1, 2024
    61
    33
    Auburn
    44 magnum MSRP (with wood/PVD) $3499

    View attachment 327484

    Polymer: $1279

    View attachment 327485
    I first saw the polymer model and thought, “Maybe there’s one with wood furniture” because that’s exactly the lever gun I’ve been looking for and nobody makes one. I figured it’d be an extra couple hundred dollars or so. Then I saw $3500. I’m not going to lie, that hurt my heart.
     

    two70

    Master
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    19   0   0
    Feb 5, 2016
    3,709
    113
    Johnson
    I mentioned this a few pages back the main issue was they (Ruger) had to discard a lot of the machines as they were unserviceable so they started out from scratch for a large chunk of this. And S&W also stated from scratch as they didn’t even buy a companies leftivers

    Yes, and that also goes to show what utter crap some of the Marlins built on the old, worn out machinery were. I've seen and heard of more than one JM stamped Marlin that did well to shoot minute of basketball at 50 yards. It was especially common in the .44 mag models when Indiana first legalized them for deer hunting. I'd much rather spend more money on quality than spend any amount on a rifle that won't shoot remotely accurately.
     

    ECS686

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Dec 9, 2017
    1,677
    113
    Brazil
    Yes, and that also goes to show what utter crap some of the Marlins built on the old, worn out machinery were. I've seen and heard of more than one JM stamped Marlin that did well to shoot minute of basketball at 50 yards. It was especially common in the .44 mag models when Indiana first legalized them for deer hunting. I'd much rather spend more money on quality than spend any amount on a rifle that won't shoot remotely accurately.
    There’s another thread on Taurus and quite a few people are bashing them over their own pet brand. One thing those badgers fail to realize or just ignore is this. Every major or small manufacturer if they are in business long enough will have a s&)t product

    Colt had issues with QC and especially their DA revolvers in the late 1980’s
    Ruger has had some bad QC from time to time
    S&W has had its share of revolvers come out with barrels not on straight or something
    Marlin has had some great guns (my Brother had a 44 mag one of the first with that cross bolt in 1985 I have a JM Marlin 357 bought new in 1997 and a 336 30-30 from sometime in the mid to late 1990’s all accurate and good looking rifles.

    When a firearms company management is what matters sometimes and just about every bad period of products are usually traced to management or in Colts case a strike going on.

    I’ll also pay more for a quality product!
     
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