Small SD Folder.

[Jeremiah]

Cubby, why is it so difficult? I don't have a lot of striking hand to hand training, and zero knife hand to hand training, but the little I have is based on kick boxing and I find a reverse grip on a knife most comfortable, so i figured the karambit made sense. again I'm learning every day!

The one big issue when considering a self defense knife ( and one many overlook) is defensebility in court. If you ever had to use it, to cut a person many blades will work, however knives like the spyderco civilian, Karambits, auto matic knives, Hawkbills, can easily be used in court to curicify you. As much as I love the wave feature, I still am cautious with knives that have it as the wave feature was designed for the SEALS.

Knives that from spyderco with the hole design, can be deployed very quickly with practice by grabing the hole and flicking the wrist. , Blade heavy knives like the spyderco 's police knives, enduras, Microtechs socom knives are also very easy to deploy with an inertia type opening. I am a big fan of the Delica, Calypso Jounior, and Para millitary, and the Chinese Lum folder, are great lightweight knives from SPyderco.

 

[cubby]

Cubby, why is it so difficult? I don't have a lot of striking hand to hand training, and zero knife hand to hand training, but the little I have is based on kick boxing and I find a reverse grip on a knife most comfortable, so i figured the karambit made sense. again I'm learning every day!

while a kerambit LOOKS like reverse grip, its not truly.... the tip is in the same orientation, but the use and execution are completely different.....

lets start with blade shape. a typical knife is straight bladed. the kerambit, in its TRUEST form, is VERY curved. in indo. knives, also 90 degrees to the grip. most are double edged... making stabbing less than ideally effective. a double edge will make cuts and slashes on an attacker, but stabbing is not as easily accheived, mostly due to the curve of the blade. SOME are designed to be a more effective stabber.

next: use. kerambits technic include alot of trapping and ripping. think pencak silat. it is MOST effective when using well estabilish level changing technics... one of the reasons the kerambit became popular in the US is because its different. it has this cool ring, and you can spin it!!! well.... DON'T spin it. it looks cool... and it can be fun... but its DANGEROUS and the knife was NEVER meant to spin. EXTEND and RETRACT. EXTEND AND RETRACT. DO NOT SPIN IT. you will plant the tip of that cool ringed kerambit DIRECTLY into your wrist at some point.... maybe a little, maybe alot.... and it will bleed and hurt and generally suck.

i hope that is a start to answer your question!!! it appears very straight forward and easy.... but to realise the TRUE potential, and difficulty, as a defense weapon, you need to have someone like Steve Tarani SHOW you what its capiable of. and how dangerous it CAN be if used incorrectly....

good luck! if you have any questions, post em or pm me!

 

[Pale Rider]

while a kerambit LOOKS like reverse grip, its not truly.... the tip is in the same orientation, but the use and execution are completely different.....

lets start with blade shape. a typical knife is straight bladed. the kerambit, in its TRUEST form, is VERY curved. in indo. knives, also 90 degrees to the grip. most are double edged... making stabbing less than ideally effective. a double edge will make cuts and slashes on an attacker, but stabbing is not as easily accheived, mostly due to the curve of the blade. SOME are designed to be a more effective stabber.

next: use. kerambits technic include alot of trapping and ripping. think pencak silat. it is MOST effective when using well estabilish level changing technics... one of the reasons the kerambit became popular in the US is because its different. it has this cool ring, and you can spin it!!! well.... DON'T spin it. it looks cool... and it can be fun... but its DANGEROUS and the knife was NEVER meant to spin. EXTEND and RETRACT. EXTEND AND RETRACT. DO NOT SPIN IT. you will plant the tip of that cool ringed kerambit DIRECTLY into your wrist at some point.... maybe a little, maybe alot.... and it will bleed and hurt and generally suck.

i hope that is a start to answer your question!!! it appears very straight forward and easy.... but to realise the TRUE potential, and difficulty, as a defense weapon, you need to have someone like Steve Tarani SHOW you what its capiable of. and how dangerous it CAN be if used incorrectly....

good luck! if you have any questions, post em or pm me!

wow.... learning a lot, found a few internet videos showing karambit training, opened my eyes thats for sure. any advantage or disadvantage to a reverse grip? I'm knew to knife "fighting" "defense" or whatever you want to call it, just trying to grasp some do's and don't and the basics thanks for the indepth responses

 

[cubby]

i am far from an expert on knife defense........ but alot has to do with who you train with, what they prefer, and what works for you..... some guys will proclaim "oh, pikal is the BEST ever!" some will say "no, no! the traditional saber grip, with traditional style is the best ever!" and then the other guy at the bar will yell "NOOO!!!! why do the Cubs continue to STINK!"...and so on and so forth.

for me, i like reverse grip. you arms have to NATURALLY reset by coming back to your body, giving you more pulling force than forward driving force... and by pulling an attacker into you, if they are armed with a gun for instance, you take away alot of there advantage.... and if you are close enough to use a knife while under attack, the whole "deadly force" choice has been made for you.... commit and follow though. get as close as possible, end the threat, and retreat. find safety. but until then, be the meanest, baddest, most violent person the world has ever known. to quote Mick Strider: "Be the Juggernaut."

all of the above is just my opinion, based on my very limitied training.... if you want REAL opinions from someone who is WELL trained, veiws different items objectively, and knows what he is talking about: talk to forum member Mercop.

 

[cubby]

oh, and like most short bladed weapons: kerambits are MOST effective on soft targets.... while some larger knives (bowie, field, katana, ax, ect) will CHOP and go through bone, kbits and most defensive knives are MOST effective when used on areas like: neck, throat, behind the clavical, backs of knees, inside elbows, groin, in the thighs at the arteries, ect..... its always said to "poke (shoot) holes into the middle of whatever the enemy gives you until they give you something BETTER to poke (or shoot) holes into the niddle of!"

 

[Pale Rider]

http://www.shivworks.com/PSP/An%20Expression%20of%20Pikal.pdf

This looks like something I want to look into some more, it's a grip I'm comfortable with and my roommate agreed to do be a training partner, just gotta find some cheap trainers and get at it!

 

[bigkahunasix]

Go to Dollar General Store and buy a 3/8in. thick plastic cutting board, outline your "knife" onto it
and cut it out. Instant cheap trainer.

Chalk the edges with crayola street chalk and have at it.

 

[cubby]

http://www.shivworks.com/PSP/An Expression of Pikal.pdf

This looks like something I want to look into some more, it's a grip I'm comfortable with and my roommate agreed to do be a training partner, just gotta find some cheap trainers and get at it!

hit up Tinman on here! hes a pikal/shivworks guy!

 

[Pale Rider]

Go to Dollar General Store and buy a 3/8in. thick plastic cutting board, outline your "knife" onto it
and cut it out. Instant cheap trainer.

Chalk the edges with crayola street chalk and have at it.

that'll be my late night, empty apartment project for the evening! last night I ripped a board off the bottom of an orange crate wrapped it in part of an old t shirt and duct taped it on a small section of wall similar to a pillar next to my closet, and was practicing the "jab" with a piece of plastic pipe I had laying around leftover from a koppo stick project, while watching king of the hill season 2 on dvd.... man i need to get a life!

 

[Tinman]

Boy Cubby, buy a knife from you and all the sudden I'm the Pikal guy huh. I see how you are. By the way, you get those trainers done? I'm back in country the end of the month, getting some slicing time in would be good.

Airborne:
As Cubby said, I am a Pikal Shivworks guy. I've been training with them off and on for a few years now. I also recently had a chance to train with Mercop in Indy, I would definitely recommend his reverse edge stuff as well. I’m also hosting Southnarc in October if you’re interested.

The true Pikal style (reverse grip edge in) is great as a defensive tool. Unfortunately, it isn’t without it’s pitfalls. First it’s pretty heavily footwork dependant. Secondly, it limits some of your response options. Cutting as part of Pikal is a secondary action only if the thrust line is interrupted. The true action is the Pikal jab, or stab. When you have a good understanding of position and targeting, it can be a very fast and effective response.

My advice to you at this point would be skip all the fancy knife crap, get a good base knowledge in footwork and striking. You’ll likely have to hit someone before you have to cut or stab them. I’d recommend one of the combat martial arts. Once you learned the basics of how to move, engage, disengage, and a little bit about position, then take a look at Southnarc’s or Mercop’s edge work, particularly the forward grip edge up stuff. I seem to find myself using that method more than the true Pikal reverse grip stuff. Although Cubby did make me one vicious Pikal style Angry Mariner just for reverse grip. You’re also going to need to get some serious training in accessing during a fight. More often than not, the fight will start before we have “tools” out. If you can’t get them out with a 300lb gorilla trying to bash you into the concrete, you’re just carrying extra weight to make you feel better.

Since this did start as a hardware question, I recently purchased a CRKT knife called the Ryan Plan B with a custom sheath from In Fight Access Kydex. I got it with a matching trainer and sheath for a real reasonable price. It’s probably my favorite budget minded choice right now. I know it’s not a folder, but I generally prefer short fixed blades mainly due to the previously mentioned in fight access problem.

Of course if Cubby ever gets that little tadpole thing going, I could be changing my mind quickly.

This kind of rambled, but if you have some specific questions, shoot me a PM.

Tinman….

 

[Pale Rider]

Here is what I came up with last night with a $1.97 cutting board a mini hack-saw and some sand paper. Only downside is the endura is a folder so practicing retrieval is kinda out of the question.

Thanks for all the great advice, I'm trying to find a place locally where I can get some good training on a regular basis, there is supposedly an MMA type gym near by but the word I've got on that place isn't very good. So while my search and research goes on, I'll keep up with regular work out schedule and mess around with some homemade training stuff and continue to pester any who have more knowledge and experience than me with questions... and that includes thanks again for the great info

 

[cubby]

Tadpole project is still on the stove!

as is the trainers.... i ended up junking the whole piece of steel i was using.... im thinking aluminium is going to be the end material!

 

[mercop]

Tinman is dead on.

IMHO a one piece drone of a folder is worthless. The hard part of using a folder is being able to reliably deploy it under all circumstances. It really takes little skill to cut someone with a knife, to get out out and open to defend yourself is the rub.

I carry a EKI Kerambit on my reaction side in reverse grip for weapon retention. That said I don't like the wave and I don't live Kerambits. During FOF the wave just has too high of a failure rate. The Kerambit draws more attention that any other knife design out there and will likely not play well in a civil case. I also have no interest in working with a specialized knife design that does not transfer to using 99% of every other knife in the world.- George