Should Euthanasia or Physician-Assisted Suicide be Legal?

[edsinger]

Please before you vote, I ask one thing...

Goto this site and read the pros and cons of this debate before you vote.

Top 10 Pros and Cons - Euthanasia - ProCon.org

(1) Yes
(2) No
(3) I am not familiar enough with this very important subject to have an opinion as of yet.
(4) I could care less

Once you have voted, can you give a description of why you feel the way you do about this subject.

Lets keep it civil....


Thanks

 

[edsinger]

I voted NO. I have stated why in this thread.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-the_world_has_lost_a_great_humanitarian.html

 

[shibumiseeker]

I worked peer counseling and suicide hotlines when I was younger, talked a couple of friends out of it, patched two up after they tried to open their wrists, and lost one to suicide. I think that the decision to end ones own life should be carefully made and not made in the heat of the moment, but ultimately I consider that decision to be the ultimate in personal freedoms.

 

[navarre1095]

Call it "Post Partum Abortion" or "self abortion" and more than a few will be okay with it.

 

[jbombelli]

Yes. Assisted suicide should be legal.

If I decide I want to die, that's my business. I have that right.

 

[ViperJock]

No. Slippery slope consequences would be unconscionable. In the short run, third party payers would stop paying docs for anything if they didn't agree to participate (a significant amount of our health care dollars pay for ICU beds and surgery etc within two weeks of the end of life). Thus third party payers would save a huge huge amount of money if these services were eliminated. They would see it as a major pay day and any ethical concerns would go out the window. At that point the docs either give in or shrug so that pretty soon the medical community accepts euthanasia as the norm. Enter the lawmakers. Enough said?

 

[littletommy]

Yes. Just drive around any town for a little while, or watch a few minutes of TV, you'll see plenty of people who should be put to sleep.

 

[ViperJock]

Yes. Assisted suicide should be legal.

If I decide I want to die, that's my business. I have that right.

I agree. But why should you need a doctor to help? If it isn't assisted it doesn't have to be legalized. If you kill yourself what can they do? Throw you in jail?

Not saying you are trying to say this Jbombelli but in general; people are always concerned about THEIR rights. What about the rights of all the other people you would force to be involved? What about the nurse forced to give a lethal injection against her (or his) beliefs or lose their job. What about her kids that depend on her income? So the nurse can either do something that may haunt her indefinitely, lead to depression and everything that comes with feeling responsible for the death of another human being OR she can quit and either let her kids starve or collect welfare from the taxes most people who would agree with PAS think they shouldn't have to pay in the first place.

OR we can just hire people that don't mind killing other people to do the job because that doesn't sound scary at all...

 

[orange]

But why should you need a doctor to help?

Because you're too weak or ill to do it yourself.

The poll is flawed to my eyes, so I didn't vote.

Assisted suicide: unqualified yes.
Euthanasia: this needs to be considered on a case by case basis. Cases where for instance the brain is destroyed, with just enough remaining to maintain a pulse, yes. Cases where the person is able to consider and communicate their ideas on the matter, absolutely not! the decision must rest with the individual whose death is in question.

 

[Armed Eastsider]

Of course. If somebody wants to die, that is their business, especially a terminally ill patient.

 

[Dogman]

I voted yes. I don't let my pets suffer when they get old or have a condition that will cause them to die a slow painful death. Yet we let our loved ones suffer, become bed ridden, unable to feed themselves, go to the restroom by themselves, be kept alive by machines, etc. If someone has made their wishes known that they want to be able to die under certain conditions, they should be granted that wish. Some people will do everything they can to keep a loved one alive for selfish reasons because they don't want to let go, not taking into account what would the person want.
JMO

 

[jbombelli]

I agree. But why should you need a doctor to help? If it isn't assisted it doesn't have to be legalized. If you kill yourself what can they do? Throw you in jail?

Not saying you are trying to say this Jbombelli but in general; people are always concerned about THEIR rights. What about the rights of all the other people you would force to be involved? What about the nurse forced to give a lethal injection against her (or his) beliefs or lose their job. What about her kids that depend on her income? So the nurse can either do something that may haunt her indefinitely, lead to depression and everything that comes with feeling responsible for the death of another human being OR she can quit and either let her kids starve or collect welfare from the taxes most people who would agree with PAS think they shouldn't have to pay in the first place.

OR we can just hire people that don't mind killing other people to do the job because that doesn't sound scary at all...

Some people have not the courage, for lack of a better word, to do it themselves. Or perhaps they're too ill and weak. Personally, if it was me, I'd like to think I'd do it myself. But what if, when it comes right down to it, I can't? Or what if I botch it, and just end up a drooling vegetable? I guess I could always find some police officers willing to do it. I may just have to kill a couple of them first. Or I could tell them I have a bunch of drugs in my house and when they come, stand at the bottom of the stairs with a rifle. Would that be better? I don't think so.

As far as giving people who are involved nightmares... we put needles in people on death row often enough. I'm not advocating FORCING anybody to do anything. There will be doctors out there willing to do it - I guarantee it. But the life/death decision should be left for each person to make for himself or herself.

 

[E5RANGER375]

But why should you need a doctor to help?

so you dont screw up and turn yourself into a vegetable and suffer more or die in more pain and slower.

I agree with the assisted suicide. Its none of the govts damn business. this is another situation where govt needs to get the **** out of our lives.

 

[96firephoenix]

crap, I accidentally voted yes. I thought the question was should it be Illegal.

anywho. Viperjock pretty much summed up my argument. You certainly have the right to take your own life, but in my opinion, suicide is one of the most selfish and cowardly things to do. That said, there are a lot of things that can lead someone to that, depression, drugs, etc.

Dragging someone else into your suicide is even more selfish and cowardly, because you are putting your burden on them.

There's also considerations about religious beliefs, but I don't want to start a war on here, lol.

 

[ViperJock]

Right. "I don't have the courage, you do it."

Generally, if you are too weak or sick to do it, just refusing care will solve that problem. Make yourself a living will and get yourself a healthcare POA that has no personal investment in your survival--ie continuing to collect your social security etc. Make sure the POA understands your desires. Make sure your primary care doc understands your living will. Oh yeah, and do it now, before you need it.

Take some responsibility for yourself.
Suicide is not hard to get right. Most people just don't plan it very well.
I guess you aren't concerned that once the government legalizes assisted suicide they will start forcing suicide on those who are "less interested.". Or maybe you have more faith that our government would keep it's nose out of it.

 

[88GT]

I agree. But why should you need a doctor to help? .

Why shouldn't one be allowed to? Your answers all hinge on accepting the status quo of insane government intervention and control over the entire medical establishment. Remove government and this becomes a much simpler question: should two people be able to come to an agreement regarding the exchange of payments for services rendered? How do you answer 'no' to that provided the outcome doesn't infringe on someone else's rights?

The insurance company argument is a red herring. Once again, get government out of the regulation of insurance policies. Why would an assisted suicide even need to include insurance considerations. I doubt any policy would cover it, so the payment would have to be made up front (what doc wouldn't demand that anyway, how would he be paid after the fact from a dead dude?). No different than paying for out-of-network or other procedures that insurance doesn't cover.

Life insurance and death benefit policies would probably need to add language regarding the circumstances of death, but if a policy holder wants to deny/accept a claim based on the manner of death, that's their business, and the consumer can accept it or not.

Really? Where's the problem?

crap, I accidentally voted yes. I thought the question was should it be Illegal.

anywho. Viperjock pretty much summed up my argument. You certainly have the right to take your own life, but in my opinion, suicide is one of the most selfish and cowardly things to do. That said, there are a lot of things that can lead someone to that, depression, drugs, etc.

Dragging someone else into your suicide is even more selfish and cowardly, because you are putting your burden on them.

There's also considerations about religious beliefs, but I don't want to start a war on here, lol.

This isn't just about teen angst. This is about end of life care and not forcing someone to live in pain or manage pain when he is done living. WHy do you get to tell someone he has to suffer in pain because you get squeamish at the thought of someone helping him meet his Maker? Or because you assume incorrectly that everyone in the family is going to be upset with the decision and oppose it?

It doesn't really matter that you think suicide is a cowardly act. Does it? Do you also intend to control people's lives in other ways for behavior that you find disagreeable? You want laws to prevent people from smoking because you don't like it? Someone once told me everybody should start buying organic because that's the only thing that's going to bring the price down. She'd be perfectly fine with legislation allowing only organic foods to be sold in grocery stores because she believes that's the way everybody should eat. Would you support her in that? Imposing your personal standard on assisted suicide on everybody is no different.

Religious beliefs? What if I don't share your world view? What if my religion actually condoned it for certain situations?

I'm personally opposed to it. But I would never be so arrogant as to foist my personal beliefs on someone else and make them live according to my moral code.

 

[88GT]

Right. "I don't have the courage, you do it."

Generally, if you are too weak or sick to do it, just refusing care will solve that problem. Make yourself a living will and get yourself a healthcare POA that has no personal investment in your survival--ie continuing to collect your social security etc. Make sure the POA understands your desires. Make sure your primary care doc understands your living will. Oh yeah, and do it now, before you need it.

Take some responsibility for yourself.
Suicide is not hard to get right. Most people just don't plan it very well.
I guess you aren't concerned that once the government legalizes assisted suicide they will start forcing suicide on those who are "less interested.". Or maybe you have more faith that our government would keep it's nose out of it.

THe problem is that no one knows if he's going to have to choose between living in pain or not. And for many, by the time it becomes obvious, it's too late to plan.

How do you propose government would use suicide as a means to eliminate people that it isn't already doing?

 

[jbombelli]

Right. "I don't have the courage, you do it."

Generally, if you are too weak or sick to do it, just refusing care will solve that problem. Make yourself a living will and get yourself a healthcare POA that has no personal investment in your survival--ie continuing to collect your social security etc. Make sure the POA understands your desires. Make sure your primary care doc understands your living will. Oh yeah, and do it now, before you need it.

Take some responsibility for yourself.
Suicide is not hard to get right. Most people just don't plan it very well.
I guess you aren't concerned that once the government legalizes assisted suicide they will start forcing suicide on those who are "less interested.". Or maybe you have more faith that our government would keep it's nose out of it.

The government won't start killing people in this situation unless and until we have a single-payer healthcare system, where the government pays all the bills, and then it will most likely be bureaucratic red tape that's to blame. There's a big difference between saying "you can off yourself if you want, and can even find someone to help you" and saying "that's it for you."

A LOT of people have screwed up their suicide attempt. People have shot themselves in the head and lived. People have jumped off buildings and lived. People have taken lots of pills and lived. People have jumped out of planes, had their chutes not open, and lived. People have crashed their vehicles at 100+ mph and lived. People have actually died, and been brought back after suicide attempts. I guess a suicide bomb vest would probably be guaranteed to work, but you have to come up with the materials, and not get busted in the meantime. And you better know what you're doing when it comes to building bombs.

But the real problem with doing it yourself is this: there are lots of busybodies in the world who will call the police and you end up taken to a mental hospital for observation, or you're "saved", or you screw it up. The problem with just refusing care is simple as well: many will say that you're obviously not of sound mind, and will intervene and take the right to decide away from you. Even if you've made all the arrangements first. Besides, the best we can legally say at this time is "don't keep me on life support."

 

[Jay]

I just went through this with my 90 year-old mother, for the last 6 months.... most definitely, yes.

I can't grasp the "right to live" being disconnected to the "right to die" ... freedom of choice can't be applied exclusively. Just my opinion.

 

[E5RANGER375]

crap, I accidentally voted yes. I thought the question was should it be Illegal.

anywho. Viperjock pretty much summed up my argument. You certainly have the right to take your own life, but in my opinion, suicide is one of the most selfish and cowardly things to do. That said, there are a lot of things that can lead someone to that, depression, drugs, etc.

Dragging someone else into your suicide is even more selfish and cowardly, because you are putting your burden on them.

There's also considerations about religious beliefs, but I don't want to start a war on here, lol.

your right, suicide is cowardly and selfish in most cases, but how can you say that about a terminally ill patient? Is it wrong to end your pain when you know what the end will be anyways? I say no. If one of my loved ones was dying and they were in unbearable pain I think I would be the selfish one for forcing them to stay alive in that condition. If there was a doctor who would allow them to go in peace and they wanted that option, I would gladly pay for it. If im gonna die and in the process widdle away in front of my loved ones and also rack up extreme medical bills that will burden them long after im gone, im going out my way and when I want. yes my family wouldnt wanna see me go but in the end I hope they would see it as my ultimate and last act of love to them.

Right. "I don't have the courage, you do it."

Generally, if you are too weak or sick to do it, just refusing care will solve that problem. Make yourself a living will and get yourself a healthcare POA that has no personal investment in your survival--ie continuing to collect your social security etc. Make sure the POA understands your desires. Make sure your primary care doc understands your living will. Oh yeah, and do it now, before you need it.

Take some responsibility for yourself.
Suicide is not hard to get right. Most people just don't plan it very well.
I guess you aren't concerned that once the government legalizes assisted suicide they will start forcing suicide on those who are "less interested.". Or maybe you have more faith that our government would keep it's nose out of it.

actually doctor assisted suicide allows the person themselves to actually "pull the lever" so to speak. thats why they couldnt ever charge kavorkian with murder, because he wasnt actually the one who pushed the button. it was the patient. he just made the means availible.


pretty sad that some of you are too selfish to see this is a form of compassion and love. Its sad that if my loved one was dying and in such great of pain, they would either have to OD on their pain meds or "borrow" a gun to be in peace. wouldnt it be nice if they could have a REAL doctor there to make sure the final moments go smooth?

as far as the "beliefs" arguments go..... believe whatever you want but dont force yours on me! and DO NOT sully my freedoms and natural rights by trying to use the govt to stop me.