ShivWorks

[TAB30-06]

Looks like Craig Douglas will be running a class in June in Lafayette.

Shivworks Course Schedule: Plan Your Training

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shivworks.com

 

[KokomoDave]

$550 for the class.

 

[Tactically Fat]

He's got one over near Dayton, OH, too.

 

[TAB30-06]

$550 for the class.

Definitely pretty steep. Wonder if lunch is provided.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Definitely pretty steep. Wonder if lunch is provided.

100% highly doubt it.

 

[2tonic]

Definitely pretty steep. Wonder if lunch is provided.

100% highly doubt it.

Why? Won't they have a knife to slice the salami with?

 

[bwframe]

Definitely pretty steep. Wonder if lunch is provided.

It's a two day class. Inflation effects instructors also.

Smart money would be to plan to take lunch both days. Hang with Craig and any associate instructors through lunch, as long as they'll put up with you. Same thing for any dinner get togethers between days. Buy Craig's dinner and keep draining his brain all the way through. Start taking notes for conversation topics now.

 

[cedartop]

Definitely pretty steep. Wonder if lunch is provided.

I wouldn't call it steep at all. It is in line with the market, especially considering he is one of the top trainers in the country.

 

[cosermann]

If this fits your schedule, you will not be disappointed.

 

[TAB30-06]

I wouldn't call it steep at all. It is in line with the market, especially considering he is one of the top trainers in the country.

Oh I’m not saying he is over priced. I just mean to say 550 dollars is not a small junk of change, atleast not for myself.

 

[TAB30-06]

The lunch comment was joke. Sarcasm doesn’t translate real well in text.

 

[cedartop]

Oh I’m not saying he is over priced. I just mean to say 550 dollars is not a small junk of change, atleast not for myself.

I can agree with that.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Oh I’m not saying he is over priced. I just mean to say 550 dollars is not a small junk of change, atleast not for myself.

It isn't. But he's one of the hand full of people I could recommend being worth the cash outlay. There's not a ton of open enrollment options available to people that is comparable. Actually not a lot of closed enrollment I'm aware of, either, though there's certainly offerings in that realm I don't know anything about.

 

[J Galt]

Craig is next level with respect to the subject matter and his ability to articulate the why behind the what. He has the experience to back up what he teaches. Expect physical evolutions.

There is no other more practical, or realistic, class you can take on the civilian side.

FYI: above comments based on the ECQC class, I would bet the other classes are the same

 

[Jackson]

Definitely pretty steep. Wonder if lunch is provided.

I know it was sarcasm, but I'll add a thought. The classes, at least when I took ECQC a few years ago, include a Friday evening block of instruction. So you can expect 20-24 hours of class time. $22-27 per hour of contact ttime.even if it doesn't include Friday, it looks like it's 8 am to 7 pm. So still 20 hours of time when you exclude lunch.

These kind of classes are also expensive for the instructor as they provide a lot of equipment such as training guns, protective gear, marking ammo, etc.

As BBI said, there are few places to get this kind of instruction coupled with the actual testing that you get in this class. It is worth the expense.

 

[Jackson]

Looks like Craig Douglas will be running a class in June in Lafayette.

Shivworks Course Schedule: Plan Your Training

Explore Shivworks training excellence with our dynamic course schedule. Elevate your skills with expert instruction. Join us now!

shivworks.com

One of the things I wonder about Shivworks classes is whether too many of the students have so much outside training that the average untrained person can still get good value from the FoF exercises.


Craig has a core following of people who are serious about this subject matter and, from what I can tell, they attend his classes multiple times. These kind of classes are also likely to bring in people who are comfortable in a combat sports environment. If you have a class full of wrestlers and bjj purple belts who spend their extra time lifting weights and shooting, it will be more difficult to get any traction in an exercise as an untrained person.


Also, that changes how the scenario feels. Two untrained people rolling around on the ground can look a lot different than two seasoned grapplers. I just wonder if that has changed the class dynamics at all. Maybe it hasn't and it's just as good or better.


I have followed some of the Shivworks social media posts and it seems some of the techniques and drills I remember from ECQC have been updated and refined. Maybe it's time to take it again.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

One of the things I wonder about Shivworks classes is whether too many of the students have so much outside training that the average untrained person can still get good value from the FoF exercises.

When I took the class I was semi-trained at best. Police Academy stuff, a little ground fighting and weapon retention stuff from other places. Like maybe a 2.5/10 on the training scale. I may be a 3.5 now. Maybe, that may be high.

I was also in worse physical condition than I'd been in a long time. I was still in recovery mode from a pair of slipped discs that caused permanent (but luckily fairly minor) nerve damage. I was able to participate safely in all evolutions but one, which I elected to stay out of because the start position made it too likely I'd have a lot of pressure on my head/neck/shoulders and I wasn't setting my recovery back again.

Even with my lack of talent and lack of physical ability, I got a lot out of it. I'm sure I could have gotten more out of it if I'd had a better base, but I did learn a lot and used some of it to effect when back in uniform for a bit.

 

[Jackson]

but I did learn a lot and used some of it to effect when back in uniform for a bit.

This is the most important metric. You learned and it worked in real life. You can't get more value than that from a course

I didn't have very much experience when I took it, but it was several years ago. I'd have check my notebook for the date. Maybe 7 years ago.

I'd say it was 50/50 between people with considerable grappling training and those without. Maybe its not the issue I imagine. I just see the people who follow him going deep into it. One thing Craig does well, though, is pair people up so both benefit.

 

[cedartop]

This is the most important metric. You learned and it worked in real life. You can't get more value than that from a course

I didn't have very much experience when I took it, but it was several years ago. I'd have check my notebook for the date. Maybe 7 years ago.

I'd say it was 50/50 between people with considerable grappling training and those without. Maybe its not the issue I imagine. I just see the people who follow him going deep into it. One thing Craig does well, though, is pair people up so both benefit.

I have had similar thoughts. As you know, we based much of our class off of Craig's material and I can't think of anyone better at what he does. I have participated in Suarez 0-5 ft gunfighting a couple of times, which has a ground and combative component, likewise their TASI class. I did Paul Sharps excellent MDOC class and Unthinkable with him and William April. I did a Cecil seminar right before hernia surgery. Here comes the but, the way ECQC has seemed to evolve the participants I would be cautious to do it today in my current condition, which is actually better than it has been in a number of years . In no way am I speaking Ill of Craig's courses, just saying it is serious stuff for serious people.

 

[Jackson]

I have had similar thoughts. As you know, we based much of our class off of Craig's material and I can't think of anyone better at what he does. I have participated in Suarez 0-5 ft gunfighting a couple of times, which has a ground and combative component, likewise their TASI class. I did Paul Sharps excellent MDOC class and Unthinkable with him and William April. I did a Cecil seminar right before hernia surgery. Here comes the but, the way ECQC has seemed to evolve the participants I would be cautious to do it today in my current condition, which is actually better than it has been in a number of years . In no way am I speaking Ill of Craig's courses, just saying it is serious stuff for serious people.

I actually think you're less likely to get hurt playing those games with serious martial artists than with the average, 200+lb untrained guy on the street.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear the injury rate has gone down as the students training backgrounds deepen.