Security Guards

[tatters]

I have a question, and please don't take this as belittling someone's vocation, 'cause that isn't what's intended.

Do you have some sort of license when you become an armed security guard?

It seems to me that a guy wearing a security guard uniform and open carrying is more accepted in public.

If there is no license needed to be an armed security guard besided a LTCH, what makes him more qualified to OC than me? I have a permit too.

 

[Scutter01]

If there is no license needed to be an armed security guard besided a LTCH, what makes him more qualified to OC than me? I have a permit too.

Because he's wearing a uniform. You have to understand that the "soccer mom" fear regarding OC is all about perception. "Is this person who has a gun a danger to me and my kids?" A guy in a police or security uniform appears "legitimate".

 

[jsgolfman]

Scutter, don't most security firms require some sort of safety course or training? Not sure, but thought I recalled that from somewhere.

 

[Scutter01]

Scutter, don't most security firms require some sort of safety course or training? Not sure, but thought I recalled that from somewhere.

I don't know if they do or not, but why would that be relevant? The soccer mom doesn't know what the security guard's training background is, just like she doesn't know what mine is. She will assume that he is highly trained or somehow "authorized" (above and beyond an LTCH) because they gave him a uniform.

A good experiment is to open-carry but vary your style of dress. Try it dressed as an urban commando and then try it again wearing business-casual. Do not alter your behavior. I promise you that you will get two entirely different reactions from people. When I dress in nice clothes, people assume I'm a cop ("what precinct are you with?" is a common question I get asked). When I'm in jeans and a t-shirt (ok, not really urban commando), I get dirty looks from the soccer moms.

 

[Soundslikejosh]

A pair of khakis and a polo looks an awful lot like a detective. The way people treat you is different than when you're wearing jeans. However, be aware that blending in is counterproductive to SOME PEOPLE's goals of OC. For some folks, the goal is to show that normal, everyday people can and do OC, and that the do it safely. Blending in or dressing like a security guard/LEO/detective undermines the aforementioned goal because then the sheeple lump you in with security guard/LEO/detectives and you have not differentiated yourself. YMMV.

 

[RogerB]

or like the guy that dressed like Santa......sicko...

 

[Drail]

Having worked for several different security companies I can tell you that the majority have no training requirement other than maybe watching a 30 minute video. They usually do a cursory background check but not always. Way back in the 70s I took a part time job with Wells Fargo in St. Louis and after a 10 minute interview the supervisor handed me a uniform and a loaded S&W Model 10 (no additional rounds) and sent me down to spend the night guarding a construction site in downtown St. Louis in a very sleazy part of town. City cops would drive by every hour or two to see if I was still alive. Needless to say I didn't keep the job very long. The idea that because someone has a uniform makes the sheep comfortable with seeing an openly carried gun is ridiculous. But then they are sheep.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

Scutter, don't most security firms require some sort of safety course or training? Not sure, but thought I recalled that from somewhere.

Depends on the company. While working my way through IUPUI, I applied for an Armed position with Burns, were I was obviously a top-flight candidate because I had my LTCH and a heartbeat. There "training" consisted of watching a video. I was also going to be scheduled to take their "I-know-which-end-the-ouchy-parts-come-out-of" Armed officer qualification course, but I did't take the job because they didn't have a schedule that fit with my mine as a full-time student. In Burn's defense, at least that had this "much" so-called training; a videotape thats sole message was, "You're not cops, don't try to act like one!!!" and a shooting test. (I didn't take it, but judging by the way the office was ran, I imagine Stevie Wonder could have passed it!)


Instead, I was hired by these guys:

Protection Plus- Security Guard Services

Where the "training" was; "Got your gun permit?" "Yes." "Let me get a copy of it while you go find a couple of uniforms that fit you. You shift and job site is..." The "training" with PPI was merely work site/contract familiarization for each specific site. No classes on Use of Force, Liability management, unarmed self-defense, no firearms shooting test...nothing. Fortunately, I had a background in some of this already from the Marine Corps, training in Karate, and my own personal research/desire to be as professional in the position as possible. For me it was a McJob to help get me through college, with the chance to sit and study a some of the client sites, and the chance to get smoked by G-Dog the Gangbanger at others. A few of the officers I met/worked with were OK, but most of the people there were Barney Fife/Gomer Pyle/Deliverance Banjo Player love children!!

Having seen it first hand, I think Indiana should pass a law requiring actual licensing/qualifications to be a security officer, similar to states like Texas, and dare I say it, California. It would help to weed out the squirrels and thereby lower potential liability for the clients, and raise the level of knowledge and professionalism among the officers/companies. Hows this for irony/stupidity: I didn't have to take any company classes carry a pistol, just my LTCH, but I had to pay out of my own pocket for a class to be able to carry OC(Pepper Spray).

 

[Disposable Heart]

I used to work security too before my current job when I got out of school. Belittle someone's vocation? You arent even close...In other words, you arent going to belittle them, in light of the following...

Some of the most unstable, brutish, ignorance and dangerous people I have ever met was working armed and unarmed security. My felllow "coworkers" were usually no more than hoodrats themselves (unarmed) or crazed, kill-em-all-and-let-god-sort-them-out folks for armed. They constantly talked about how they were going to murder some rat "for society's sake" and so on. The atrocities I have seen for armored car stuff would really shake even the most dilluted mind's faith in security guards. I worked for two companies (I wont divulge their names here, ask me privately), one was decent and unarmed security, however, hired people with very shakey backgrounds: I overheard a call by my supervisor to a guy, upon asking if they take someone who had a felony, he replied that they put them in a different area, less responsibilities, but still hire them. The armored car company had a bunch of whigged out honkies that hated everyone not their color and would jump if you cut a loud fart, on top of the vehicles that were dangerous to drive (constant maintenance issues, broken blinkers, etc...).

HOWEVER! Not all companies are like that. There are quite a few really good companies that run their employees through training and qualifications. These companies generally pay well, do through background checks and REQUIRE LTCH or assist in the guard recieving it (an employment requirement). They also generally perform higher tasks (federal/state building guard, upscale area bank guards, etc...).

Coming from my background, I have to agree with Bushido Devil Dog: State mandatory qualification for those who use their license for EMPLOYMENT or requirements for LTCH for ANY armed security (a more liberal and easier approach without potentially threatening rights). People who hire security companies should have total say in how their new assets are trained and deployed. What may be good in the eyes of some inexperienced and totally helpless security supervisor IS NOT what the customer may consider good security. One complaint I had against a company I worked for was they were very opaque to the customer's questioning: The security company didnt feel obligated to explain to the customer why they deployed security in a certain way and totally ignored the requests of the customer for improved security measures in certain fields. It is no wonder they were eventually kicked out of the facility we guarded. I would say more scrutiny in regards to security companies is REQUIRED by citizens that frequent secured services as they may recieve more than what was bargained for...

 

[shooter521]

I applied for an Armored Transport position when I first moved back to Indy from college. LTCH was a requirement. Went for the interview, followed by a polygraph session, driving test (maneuvering a 15,000 pound truck around the west side was fun) and range test (50-round qual course at Don's Guns using a company-furnished GP100 loaded with .38SPL LRN).

The company furnished your gun and gear, including soft body armor (they claimed they were one of the only Armored companies that provided body armor for their employees!), or you could carry a personal gun from the company approved list (Ruger, S&W or Colt revolver in .38 or .357). Once hired, employees would be sent to the company headquarters in IL for a further two weeks of range and driving instruction.

They seemed like a decent outfit and pay was good for that kind of job, but they ended up not hiring me.

I had a friend who worked for Eagle Trident security on the north side of Indy several years ago; at that time, most of his co-workers and the admin were former IPD, and they seemed to have their crap together with the exception of the occasional dumbass new hire.

 

[Dogman]

A good experiment is to open-carry but vary your style of dress. Try it dressed as an urban commando and then try it again wearing business-casual. Do not alter your behavior. I promise you that you will get two entirely different reactions from people. When I dress in nice clothes, people assume I'm a cop ("what precinct are you with?" is a common question I get asked). When I'm in jeans and a t-shirt (ok, not really urban commando), I get dirty looks from the soccer moms.

It's funny on how people see you depending on how your dressed, before I retired whenever I went to court (not very often) if I didn't wear a uniform I would wear a suit and tie and almost everytime someone would come up to me and ask if they could talk to me about their case thinking I was lawyer.

 

[m_deaner]

I'm a security guard (part time), and had to get a "state inspector's license" when I started working for my company. I paid $10 for the license... granting it was a formality. There wasn't any training requirement. I heard from my supervisor that the state did away with the inspector's license this summer... and I've seen that new employees don't need to fill out the paperwork or pay the $10, so it must be true.

The company I work for does background checks and has drug screenings, and they take both seriously. Still, they have hired some shady and unreliable people.

 

[Bill of Rights]

It's funny on how people see you depending on how your dressed, before I retired whenever I went to court (not very often) if I didn't wear a uniform I would wear a suit and tie and almost everytime someone would come up to me and ask if they could talk to me about their case thinking I was lawyer.

Suit and tie to court. My dad was an attorney, and one of the things he taught me, partly by example and partly by actually taking me down to watch a trial one day, was that if you want to be taken seriously and you want to be respected there, you have to be respectful, if not of the person sitting in the chair, then of his office and station. He never, ever went to the courthouse, and rarely even to his office, even on a Saturday, not wearing a coat and tie.

Show up dressed ratty or even "casually", and expect to be treated in kind. Address the judge with "Yes sir" or "Yes, your honor", never "Yeah." or "uh huh".

As has been said, the same rules apply to carrying. Dress respectably and you will receive respect, right up until you show disrespect for someone. This, of course, applies to normal people. As for criminals, the old saying applies to most if not all of them equally: There is no honor among thieves.

Blessings,
B

 

[NateIU10]

I'm a security guard (part time), and had to get a "state inspector's license" when I started working for my company. I paid $10 for the license... granting it was a formality. There wasn't any training requirement. I heard from my supervisor that the state did away with the inspector's license this summer... and I've seen that new employees don't need to fill out the paperwork or pay the $10, so it must be true.

The company I work for does background checks and has drug screenings, and they take both seriously. Still, they have hired some shady and unreliable people.

You all hiring? Need to find me a job.

 

[repair]

Back in the late 80s I worked for a security company and I was not allowed to carry a fire arm.

We went through a psychological evaluation, a drug test and we all had to take a lie detector test.

I think the name of the company was something like Guardian, jsut been too long.

 

[m_deaner]

You all hiring? Need to find me a job.

I work for ASI and they are usually hiring. They handle security for a variety of businesses in the Bloomington area and also handle security at the courthouse and the annex. PM me for company contact info.
It might be hard to get hired if you don't have military, police, or previous guard experience.

 

[sloughfoot]

Because he's wearing a uniform. You have to understand that the "soccer mom" fear regarding OC is all about perception. "Is this person who has a gun a danger to me and my kids?" A guy in a police or security uniform appears "legitimate".

Right on. That is how it is. Well said.