Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[1DOWN4UP]

There are a few Russian Apologists and just plain tin foil hatters on here.

I am sure your remark is probably aimed at me. That is OK because I too once saw things differently. If your so sure of your truth,watch the ENTIRE movie at number #678, and show me how the facts are wrong. The American Gov't with the NATO lap dogs has their fingerprints all over this mess.

I would assume you would be talking about me. That is OK,
If your truth is rock solid, I would suggest watching the film at #678 and show me where I am wrong.At least watch half way to the end.. THE BLAME FOR THIS WAR FALLS ON BOTH SIDES. JMHO

I apologize for the hacking of your post,I thought that I had it corrected.

 

[Wolfhound]

Also, seekers and fire control were less capable. If you're less likely to hit a target, you throw more weapons in.

Your comment reminded me of this video.

 

[BigMoose]

Your comment reminded me of this video.

If that was the only one... sadly it's not.....

 

[cobber]

If that was the only one... sadly it's not.....

So how many Russian missiles are missing their intended targets completely? Maybe landing on Russian territory?

 

[Tombs]

Ukraine needs up to $7 billion in support per month, Zelensky says. (Published 2022)

Ukraine has suffered $550 billion in losses from the war, President Volodymyr Zelensky told the World Bank on Thursday.

www.nytimes.com

And now Zelensky is wanting 7 billion dollars a month in support from us.

 

[Tombs]

There are a few Russian Apologists and just plain tin foil hatters on here.

The fact of the matter is, Ukraine is giving the Russians a conventional arsewhooping embarrassment. A hard defeat that will cost them decades to recover. That is good for everyone on this planet (mostly). Unless you constantly want to live in fear of a full nuclear exchange, it is best we do all we can to deprive Russia of anything and everything. From Apples, Guns, Lawyers, Money, or anything. On the other hand, it is in our vested interest to give Ukraine as much as we can.

Maybe just maybe, the Russians will get fed up with this and storm the Kremlin... and we can end with Putin in a Bunker with a gun to his head.

Down with the communist heathens! I refuse to live through another cold war, support Ukraine!

You say this without considering the western consequences of our actions.

Canada has supplied so many arms to Ukraine their stockpiles are now dry. There's growing concerns we're draining our own stockpiles. We're absolutely hemorrhaging money to prop up a war as a snipe against Russia, while at home inflation is skyrocketing, the economy is collapsing, and social cohesion is at an all time low. We're quite possibly looking at drastic food shortages going into fall, and at best, a massive increase in food prices.

What have we accomplished thus far? We have sanctioned Russia to death, yet their economy appears to be recovering due to maneuvering to save their own currency. They have now partnered with China to create a payment system we have no influence on, and they now think they have nothing left to lose. Many nations are quietly supporting Russia, and positioning themselves further away from western influence.

Meanwhile a certain generation is living out their cold war fantasies and beating the war drums, when they absolutely refuse to contact the Ukrainian embassy and sign up to fight. Excuse train galore.

I don't fear a nuclear exchange, I fear a generation of people with no regard for our own country, driving us right back to a prolonged military engagement after we finally left after 20 years of wasted blood and treasure.

Get on a plane and go to Ukraine instead of demanding everyone around you does it so you can comfortably live vicariously through them.

 

[cobber]

You say this without considering the western consequences of our actions.

Canada has supplied so many arms to Ukraine their stockpiles are now dry. There's growing concerns we're draining our own stockpiles. We're absolutely hemorrhaging money to prop up a war as a snipe against Russia, while at home inflation is skyrocketing, the economy is collapsing, and social cohesion is at an all time low. We're quite possibly looking at drastic food shortages going into fall, and at best, a massive increase in food prices.

What have we accomplished thus far? We have sanctioned Russia to death, yet their economy appears to be recovering due to maneuvering to save their own currency. They have now partnered with China to create a payment system we have no influence on, and they now think they have nothing left to lose. Many nations are quietly supporting Russia, and positioning themselves further away from western influence.

Meanwhile a certain generation is living out their cold war fantasies and beating the war drums, when they absolutely refuse to contact the Ukrainian embassy and sign up to fight. Excuse train galore.

I don't fear a nuclear exchange, I fear a generation of people with no regard for our own country, driving us right back to a prolonged military engagement after we finally left after 20 years of wasted blood and treasure.

Get on a plane and go to Ukraine instead of demanding everyone around you does it so you can comfortably live vicariously through them.

Guess Biden won’t have F-15s or other conventional weapons to use against his own people when the SHTF, and Eric Swallow Well will get his wish?

 

[KG1]

You say this without considering the western consequences of our actions.

Canada has supplied so many arms to Ukraine their stockpiles are now dry. There's growing concerns we're draining our own stockpiles. We're absolutely hemorrhaging money to prop up a war as a snipe against Russia, while at home inflation is skyrocketing, the economy is collapsing, and social cohesion is at an all time low. We're quite possibly looking at drastic food shortages going into fall, and at best, a massive increase in food prices.

What have we accomplished thus far? We have sanctioned Russia to death, yet their economy appears to be recovering due to maneuvering to save their own currency. They have now partnered with China to create a payment system we have no influence on, and they now think they have nothing left to lose. Many nations are quietly supporting Russia, and positioning themselves further away from western influence.

Meanwhile a certain generation is living out their cold war fantasies and beating the war drums, when they absolutely refuse to contact the Ukrainian embassy and sign up to fight. Excuse train galore.

I don't fear a nuclear exchange, I fear a generation of people with no regard for our own country, driving us right back to a prolonged military engagement after we finally left after 20 years of wasted blood and treasure.

Get on a plane and go to Ukraine instead of demanding everyone around you does it so you can comfortably live vicariously through them.

I guess we should have a nuclear exchange so we can deplete Russia's stockpiles.

 

[Redhorse]

You say this without considering the western consequences of our actions.

Canada has supplied so many arms to Ukraine their stockpiles are now dry. There's growing concerns we're draining our own stockpiles. We're absolutely hemorrhaging money to prop up a war as a snipe against Russia, while at home inflation is skyrocketing, the economy is collapsing, and social cohesion is at an all time low. We're quite possibly looking at drastic food shortages going into fall, and at best, a massive increase in food prices.

What have we accomplished thus far? We have sanctioned Russia to death, yet their economy appears to be recovering due to maneuvering to save their own currency. They have now partnered with China to create a payment system we have no influence on, and they now think they have nothing left to lose. Many nations are quietly supporting Russia, and positioning themselves further away from western influence.

Meanwhile a certain generation is living out their cold war fantasies and beating the war drums, when they absolutely refuse to contact the Ukrainian embassy and sign up to fight. Excuse train galore.

I don't fear a nuclear exchange, I fear a generation of people with no regard for our own country, driving us right back to a prolonged military engagement after we finally left after 20 years of wasted blood and treasure.

Get on a plane and go to Ukraine instead of demanding everyone around you does it so you can comfortably live vicariously through them.

I can't speak for everyone else but I didn't even exist during the Cold War. I remember back in grade school, right when Putin first came to power there were murmurs (more comical but some seriousness) of even Russia joint NATO by 2005. But of course that all went to the wayside after his incursion into Georgia. I remember a Ukrainian being interviewed at the time saying "We're next!" Nearly 20 years later she was right.

Given our geological location, I think we'll be just fine shipping Ukraine weapons from our inventories, same for Canada. European countries who are at much bigger threats from Russia are shipping weapons from their inventories also; they know the risk. We were in a much worse place at the start of WWII (outdated aircraft, small standing army, no real logistic systems in place; there weren't even enough rifles for draftees even with the old stocks of 1903s) and were able to adapt to that because of our geological location.

Lastly, I, again, can't speak for others on here, but I personally have no skills to offer Ukraine. I'd end up being a liability more than an asset. Regardless, what Russia is doing is wrong and if the Western world, especially the Europeans with much more to lose, don't stand up to an aggressor, like Russia, then it's only a matter of time until one of them are next. It's no fluke that Sweden and Finland, who both have fairly strong defense systems, are exploring NATO membership.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yeah the pack them full, look at a Kirov class sometime

Kirov's weapons were mostly in internal magazines as I recall. It's the smaller Cruisers, Destroyers and Frigates carrying anti surface cruise missiles and ASW rockets/missiles that fairly bristled. THose things were too big to store internally on the smaller vessels.

The Kynda class was interesting as they carried reloads for their ASM's, not that they'd actually likely be able to reload after the first salvo, but hoe springs eternal! The Succeeding Kresta, Kara and Slava classes dispensed with reloads Nd carried their ASM load out above deck.

The Kirov class actually carried her missiles in VLS tubes internally in the hull.

 

[Leadeye]

Moskva vs Stark

Moskva
Cruiser.
11,500 tons. 611 feet long. 68 foot beam. 28 foot draft
Hit by 2 Neptun missiles
150 kg warhead
_____________________________________________________________

Stark
Frigate.
4,200 tons. 445 feet long. 45 foot beam. 22 foot draft
Hit by 2 Exocet missiles (one failed to explode, though the fuel caused a fire)
165 kg warhead
_________________________________________________________________


The Moskva sank.
The Stark survived.

"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."

 

[Leadeye]

I see Ivan has rediscovered bar armor.

 

[Hawkeye]

I see Ivan has rediscovered bar armor. View attachment 196609

Hmm, those are South Vietnamese river gunboats from our "Brown Water" navy.

 

[Leadeye]

Hmm, those are South Vietnamese river gunboats from our "Brown Water" navy.

VC used to shoot hollow charge Chinese rockets from the river's edge at those boats, bar armor went a long way towards limiting the damage.

My post was relative to the bar armor on top of the Russian tank. Bar armor has been around a while, I've just not seen it until recently.

 

[Wolfhound]

Can someone direct me to the posts demanding Americans get on a plane and go fight for Ukraine? I must have missed some important parts of this thread. Just trying to keep up.

 

[KG1]

Can someone direct me to the posts demanding Americans get on a plane and go fight for Ukraine? I must have missed some important parts of this thread. Just trying to keep up.

I guess someone feels that if you support Ukraine's efforts against Russia you should fly over there and join them.

 

[drillsgt]

Biden announces "fast" plan to bring Ukrainian refugees to the U.S.

The administration said in March it would bring up to 100,000 Ukrainians fleeing war to the U.S.

www.nbcnews.com

Why are we bringing another batch of refugees all the way over here, there are about 20 countries near Ukraine itself that can take them? This isn't how the refugee process is supposed to work. When this is all settled are we going to ship them back?

 

[1DOWN4UP]

Maybe he can bring us a fresh supply of Nazis....I would have to guess the Paperclip boys are all gone.

 

[BigMoose]

Kirov's weapons were mostly in internal magazines as I recall. It's the smaller Cruisers, Destroyers and Frigates carrying anti surface cruise missiles and ASW rockets/missiles that fairly bristled. THose things were too big to store internally on the smaller vessels.

The Kynda class was interesting as they carried reloads for their ASM's, not that they'd actually likely be able to reload after the first salvo, but hoe springs eternal! The Succeeding Kresta, Kara and Slava classes dispensed with reloads Nd carried their ASM load out above deck.

The Kirov class actually carried her missiles in VLS tubes internally in the hull.

Correct, Kirov is their version of the VLS.

But still the tubes take up way more of the ship then on the American VLS cruisers, so much so they take up the midships, and what guns Kirovs have are pushed out to the edge.

They also, carry a mix of tube sizes..

 

[actaeon277]

"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today."

Okay Admiral Beatty