The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[maxwelhse]

I have looked into lowering the alternator and the opportunity to lower the CG especially of that heavy ass 4g alternator is enticing but my block doesn't have the threaded boss that this one is mounted to. Of course it's no problem fab a mount that bolts to the head to get that lower mounting point. I'd prefer to have that engine, if I'm right that's a Boss 302!

I have found a shorter barb to replace the long one I have that I'm going to try to use with my existing set up but I believe that it will put the radiator hose up against the backside of my current alternator bracket right where the tensioner bolt goes thru. I've also found a threaded 45 degree elbow that I've ordered that would move the outlet enough to provide clearance but it may be to weak for my use.

One way out of this is to ditch that bracket and go with something the style of the March system, where the tensioner is the top link and the bottom is your pivot. Then that link won't be in the way.



Since you lack additional bosses on the block, you'd have to do this with a plate off of the head for the lower pivot. If you go that way, there's no law that says you have to run a heavy AF 3G alternator. I think the alternator on my Escort is roughly half the weight of the 3G I have on my Fox and the "HO" version of the Escort alternator is 75A. Seems like enough for a pylon punter? In appearance they're almost identical, but different physical sizes.

 

[churchmouse]

On GM engines I have made a plate to move the threaded holes to where the are needed and then make the appropriate bushings but not sitting in front of the engine and no beer its very hard to say.

 

[maxwelhse]

On GM engines I have made a plate to move the threaded holes to where the are needed and then make the appropriate bushings but not sitting in front of the engine and no beer its very hard to say.

It'll fit...

 

[churchmouse]

It'll fit...

View attachment 135003

You really have no idea how close you are with that....

 

[maxwelhse]

You really have no idea how close you are with that....

Oh, I've been there already!

 

[femurphy77]

One way out of this is to ditch that bracket and go with something the style of the March system, where the tensioner is the top link and the bottom is your pivot. Then that link won't be in the way.

View attachment 134997

Since you lack additional bosses on the block, you'd have to do this with a plate off of the head for the lower pivot. If you go that way, there's no law that says you have to run a heavy AF 3G alternator. I think the alternator on my Escort is roughly half the weight of the 3G I have on my Fox and the "HO" version of the Escort alternator is 75A. Seems like enough for a pylon punter? In appearance they're almost identical, but different physical sizes.

View attachment 134999

Yeah the 4g alternator is heavy but I'm willing to pay the price, it's inherently a better alternator than the 3g. In fact I have another one that will be going on the 89 GT shortly. I have a history of heat problems with my car in spite of the short duration of the runs. To that end I'm adding the electric water pump, large shrouded electric fan, separate trans cooler with fan and then of course a small fan internally for the driver and then the electronic ignition it becomes a decent load.

The location of the alternator on the March set up won't work due to the electric water pump interfering with the v belt routing. The alternator is sitting pretty much as high as it can go. Heading out to look at lowering the alternator.

 

[churchmouse]

Yeah the 4g alternator is heavy but I'm willing to pay the price. I have a history of heat problems with my car in spite of the short duration of the runs. To that end I'm adding the electric water pump, large shrouded electric fan, separate trans cooler with fan and then of course a small fan internally for the driver and then the electronic ignition it becomes a decent load.

The location of the alternator on the March set up won't work due to the electric water pump interfering with the v belt routing. The alternator is sitting pretty much as high as it can go. Heading out to look at lowering the alternator.

On my Biscayne I also added an oil cooler. It adapted to the oil filter. The before and after temps showed about 20/25*s lower.

 

[maxwelhse]

Yeah the 4g alternator is heavy but I'm willing to pay the price, it's inherently a better alternator than the 3g. In fact I have another one that will be going on the 89 GT shortly. I have a history of heat problems with my car in spite of the short duration of the runs. To that end I'm adding the electric water pump, large shrouded electric fan, separate trans cooler with fan and then of course a small fan internally for the driver and then the electronic ignition it becomes a decent load.

The location of the alternator on the March set up won't work due to the electric water pump interfering with the v belt routing. The alternator is sitting pretty much as high as it can go. Heading out to look at lowering the alternator.

I'm talking about the March "style", not the location. Basically I'm saying switch your tensioner to the pivot side and then make the current tensioner side the pivot. The there's nothing in the way except the belt if you do that.

I'll fire up some more JB beer cad...

---

Total tangent... I may be losing my mind, but that looks like a 3G alternator. The 4Gs I've seen have weirdo mounting pads.

4G:



3G:



Stock Fox (fire starter):



Less tangentially... I built my 3G up to 200A with "police" parts. It's not that tough to do. I think stock they're only 130A? Sounds like you're running more things that I would have suspected.

 

[femurphy77]

The alternator I'm using is off of a 96 v6 something, supposedly the only 4g with the old school mounting ears.

On the clearance issues I believe I've got the solution at hand. Really rather simple, until I hit the level of auto cad expertise displayed above I'll have to take a couple of pics. Basically going to raise the anchor point of the adjuster up a couple of inches. Using an offset adjuster should do it. Of course that almost always changes when you start bolting things together.

 

[maxwelhse]

The alternator I'm using is off of a 96 v6 something, supposedly the only 4g with the old school mounting ears.

On the clearance issues I believe I've got the solution at hand. Really rather simple, until I hit the level of auto cad expertise displayed above I'll have to take a couple of pics. Basically going to raise the anchor point of the adjuster up a couple of inches. Using an offset adjuster should do it. Of course that almost always changes when you start bolting things together.

Now you've got me wondering why the 4G is inherently better. At the time, I went as far up the food chain as I thought I could.

Continuing down this tangent... Apparently there is a 6G in '01+ V6s that is basically a direct swap too and there are large and small case versions of it. Small case might save a couple of pounds?

6G

 

[femurphy77]

From what I've read the 3g is prone to internal issues, don't remember what specifically. I've even bought one for the 89 GT.

Once I have the pulley issue squared away on the race motor I'll be doing the GT 4g install It includes upgrading the wiring from the gen to the car. I'm just too lazy to look it up but there's pretty compelling info online about it.

 

[maxwelhse]

From what I've read the 3g is prone to internal issues, don't remember what specifically. I've even bought one for the 89 GT.

Once I have the pulley issue squared away on the race motor I'll be doing the GT 4g install It includes upgrading the wiring from the gen to the car. I'm just too lazy to look it up but there's pretty compelling info online about it.

I had to do all of the wiring upgrades on the car side too. I primarily changed off because of the fairly well known Ford feature of the time to set the car on fire because they decided to use a connector for the charging wire instead of a stud. I don't believe Ford has ever been known for that feature again since then, so, good enough.

 

[churchmouse]

Its a race car. Make it big.....

 

[femurphy77]

Now you've got me wondering why the 4G is inherently better. At the time, I went as far up the food chain as I thought I could.

Continuing down this tangent... Apparently there is a 6G in '01+ V6s that is basically a direct swap too and there are large and small case versions of it. Small case might save a couple of pounds?

6G

View attachment 135024

Wasn't aware of a small case, the one I have is definitely weighty, might be worth it to return it for a small case.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I thought the small case 6 for cars was only like 105-110a. The large case 6 was for trucks 130a and had the mounting holes that are used in cradle mounting (weirdo mounting brackets mentioned earlier)

I could be wrong though, not a big ford or diesel guy.

 

[churchmouse]

This is my day so far.
Re-arranged the shop to make some much needed room.
Set up the hoist.
Moved the engine and hung it.
Set the trans in place.
Tomorrow I will put the converter on the trans and mate them up.

 

[femurphy77]

This is my day so far.
Re-arranged the shop to make some much needed room.
Set up the hoist.
Moved the engine and hung it.
Set the trans in place.
Tomorrow I will put the converter on the trans and mate them up.

View attachment 135137 View attachment 135138

That's purty! We just got back from meeting with transmission God and getting my c4 back. It sure feels good to be making progress on a project in spite of the occasional 2 steps back. Hoping to pick up the Gal from the upholstery shop in a couple of days. I received the right windshield gasket for it late Friday after they had already closed for the weekend so after checking in in the morning I'll drop it off to them.

 

[churchmouse]

That's purty! We just got back from meeting with transmission God and getting my c4 back. It sure feels good to be making progress on a project in spite of the occasional 2 steps back. Hoping to pick up the Gal from the upholstery shop in a couple of days. I received the right windshield gasket for it late Friday after they had already closed for the weekend so after checking in in the morning I'll drop it off to them.

Progress is why we do this. Even the occasional bump in the road.

 

[femurphy77]

Now you've got me wondering why the 4G is inherently better. At the time, I went as far up the food chain as I thought I could.

Continuing down this tangent... Apparently there is a 6G in '01+ V6s that is basically a direct swap too and there are large and small case versions of it. Small case might save a couple of pounds?

6G


View attachment 135024

Ok I was looking for the info stating that the 4g was so much better than the 3g and I've found nothing of the sort. There's been too many G's for me recently to keep them all straight apparently. The 2g is known for emitting flammage and having a poor performance curve at anything below 2k rpm. The 3g is what I put on the Galaxie and it's voltage is flat at approximately 14v even with the headlights, wipers and blower motor all going on their highest settings. I even hotwired a couple of radiator fans to the battery at the same time and the voltage never fluctuated.

You're not losing it, I am. The attraction of the 4 over 3 to me was the availability of the higher amp (130) for less than $100 from Amazon for the 4g vs 105 amps at the same price for the 3g.

Record straightened.

 

[churchmouse]

Ok I was looking for the info stating that the 4g was so much better than the 3g and I've found nothing of the sort. There's been too many G's for me recently to keep them all straight apparently. The 2g is known for emitting flammage and having a poor performance curve at anything below 2k rpm. The 3g is what I put on the Galaxie and it's voltage is flat at approximately 14v even with the headlights, wipers and blower motor all going on their highest settings. I even hotwired a couple of radiator fans to the battery at the same time and the voltage never fluctuated.

You're not losing it, I am. The attraction of the 4 over 3 to me was the availability of the higher amp (130) for less than $100 from Amazon for the 4g vs 105 amps at the same price for the 3g.

Record straightened.

The 1 wire alternators I run are 110A units. 1 wire. The excite when the revs come up well over idle so when the car fires off a blip of the throttle excites the device and it goes into charge mode. I have used these religiously since I discovered them.
I run an ignition amplifier (Digital 6) 2 fuel pumps 2 cooling fans and an electric water pump but this one has a standard pump on it for the serpentine pully system.

Point is this alternator supported all of that and never suffered. Voltage stayed in range even at idle in the lanes on the race cars with all the systems on.