Question on bear defense rounds for wilderness adventures

[teddy12b]

So I've been to Alaska twice in the last couple years and I'm always trying to find ways to get back up there. The next trips I've got in mind are farther out into the wilderness and more wild. In the past I've made due with bear spray for a lot of reasons I don't like, but logistically it's just easier to go that route. In the future with the trips I've got in mind I think an actual firearm would make more sense. The guns are bought so all that's decided, M&P10mm & mossberg 590a1 12ga. I'm curious on which pistol round for the 10mm. I always hear about hard cast or monolithic bullets for heavy bones dangerous game, and I keep thinking why not full metal jacket bullets if the concept is to punch deep and keep the bullet together? What really got me thinking about that was tonight I shots some steel slugs to see how they handled, and a box of 10mm FMJ's from S&B and they actually shot really well. I'm just curious if anyone here knows anything about that kind of debate or has done similar trips. My intent is not to shoot an animal with anything besides a camera, but I don't want to be dinner either.

 

[joe138]

I've read about Buffalo Bore and G9 Defense. G9 Defense uses a solid copper bullet at @1400 per sec out of 10mm. The article I read was impressive. But I can't find it now to link.

 

[Shooter5]

Underwood 10 mm all the way. They have the best, hard punching 10 mm for just such uses.

 

[BigRed]

So I've been to Alaska twice in the last couple years and I'm always trying to find ways to get back up there. The next trips I've got in mind are farther out into the wilderness and more wild. In the past I've made due with bear spray for a lot of reasons I don't like, but logistically it's just easier to go that route. In the future with the trips I've got in mind I think an actual firearm would make more sense. The guns are bought so all that's decided, M&P10mm & mossberg 590a1 12ga. I'm curious on which pistol round for the 10mm. I always hear about hard cast or monolithic bullets for heavy bones dangerous game, and I keep thinking why not full metal jacket bullets if the concept is to punch deep and keep the bullet together? What really got me thinking about that was tonight I shots some steel slugs to see how they handled, and a box of 10mm FMJ's from S&B and they actually shot really well. I'm just curious if anyone here knows anything about that kind of debate or has done similar trips. My intent is not to shoot an animal with anything besides a camera, but I don't want to be dinner either.

Have you ever come across a bear?

 

[Shooter5]

No, thank God. Read a lot of reviews. S&B and many of the brands of 10 mm are not full power. LeHigh Defense and Underwood make ammo just for such purposes. They have been used in- real world- experiences. Expensive, reliable and designed for bears, large predators.

 

[met eng gun nut]

Remember bear spray and bug spray should not be applied in the same way... I wont make that mistake 3 times.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I always hear about hard cast or monolithic bullets for heavy bones dangerous game, and I keep thinking why not full metal jacket bullets if the concept is to punch deep and keep the bullet together?

BLUF: Hardcast/monolithic SWC in heavy for caliber weight that your gun is proven to feed 100% reliably.

Longer answer:

In general, FMJ is not bonded as it's designed for economy and not terminal ballistics. The auto glass test in the FBI battery is a good analogy for bone strikes and in both testing and real world use you see FMJ shed the jacket at first contact and the soft lead inside deform and/or fragment. It simply doesn't hold together very well, dramatically reducing penetration.

Monolithic bullets obviously have no jacket to shed and as long as it's a hard enough alloy it will resist fragmenting and deformation. The retained mass means more penetration, as heavier things keep more momentum than lighter things (one big bullet chunk goes deeper than two half a big bullet chunks, etc. If penetration is the desired attribute, any deformation is bad. A bullet that's still bullet shaped vs mushroom shaped has less frontal surface area, meaning less drag, meaning more penetration.

Finally, bullet shape matters. Round nose ammo will skip off skulls easier and ride ribs easier, though if the bear is on all 4s ribs aren't the concern they are against human targets. With a semi-auto you're obviously limited to shapes the gun will reliable feed, but most guns will take semi-wadcutters ok. A sharp-shouldered SWC will "bite" and penetrate at angles a round nose bullet would skip, making a decent hit into a now peripheral hit.

 

[Hookeye]

Been thinking Smith 69 w hard cast warm 44 spcl

 

[Hookeye]

FWIW I hit a deer straight down from a treestand w SWC 255gr loaded hot in .44 mag SBH. Hit was on rib and up near spine. That bullet deflected at a pretty steep angle back. I dug in the ground and never did find it ( bummer).

Shocked me it didnt range through on line.

 

[teddy12b]

Have you ever come across a bear?

Several times, thankfully mostly at distance. I think I'm up to having seen 8 grizzleys now?

 

[teddy12b]

Underwood 10 mm all the way. They have the best, hard punching 10 mm for just such uses.

Is there a particular version of their ammo? There's a lot to pick from and I just get confused.