Proposed Deer Rule Changes

[IndianaSlim]

Indiana HAS always produced big deer. Fact. Indiana will continue to produce big deer year after year regardless of rule changes. Fact. However, shortening seasons and putting more of a bounty on does will not only increase the number of young bucks that survive every year but will also get the buck to doe ratio closer to where it needs to be therefore increasing the odds of an encounter with a once in a lifetime deer.

When I hunt it isn't just to kill. I am a hunter through and through. I love being close to mother nature as much as the next hunter does. I killed six does last year all with a bow. According to my journal I had 62 outings (either morning, afternoon, or all day hunts) I don't kill on every hunt, but every deer I killed last year was a mature doe. Notice I never mentioned taking a buck as I didn't. I passed up a TON of bucks and passed on some really good deer. Tag soup was bittersweet but looking back I made all sound decisions. Bottom line is I'm not a killer, I'm a hunter.

I don't get into "contests" about who kills a bigger deer than who. I'm equally as happy for a hunting partner to kill a mature deer as if I take one myself. Notice I said MATURE deer not big deer. There is a difference.

The only thing I disagree with is that you shouldn't have a chance to kill a trophy every year. I feel that if a guy puts in enough hours and works hard enough, there is a VERY good chance of having a quality encounter with a trophy every single year, whether you get him killed or not.

 

[firehawk1]

Indiana HAS always produced big deer. Fact. Indiana will continue to produce big deer year after year regardless of rule changes. Fact. However, shortening seasons and putting more of a bounty on does will not only increase the number of young bucks that survive every year but will also get the buck to doe ratio closer to where it needs to be therefore increasing the odds of an encounter with a once in a lifetime deer.

When I hunt it isn't just to kill. I am a hunter through and through. I love being close to mother nature as much as the next hunter does. I killed six does last year all with a bow. According to my journal I had 62 outings (either morning, afternoon, or all day hunts) I don't kill on every hunt, but every deer I killed last year was a mature doe. Notice I never mentioned taking a buck as I didn't. I passed up a TON of bucks and passed on some really good deer. Tag soup was bittersweet but looking back I made all sound decisions. Bottom line is I'm not a killer, I'm a hunter.

I don't get into "contests" about who kills a bigger deer than who. I'm equally as happy for a hunting partner to kill a mature deer as if I take one myself. Notice I said MATURE deer not big deer. There is a difference.

The only thing I disagree with is that you shouldn't have a chance to kill a trophy every year. I feel that if a guy puts in enough hours and works hard enough, there is a VERY good chance of having a quality encounter with a trophy every single year, whether you get him killed or not.

I should say when I said big deer I was speaking of mature large racked bucks. I don't disagree with having a chance of seeing a mature buck, but it should be just that, a chance, not something that is a given.

I'm with you on a buddy taking a deer. I've always said, if you hit one, let's go get it. Hunt over. I'm just as happy helping track one.

As far as the contest I mentioned, it was just some friendly ribbing that went on, nothing more. I'm glad I purchased a lifetime license before they stopped selling them. I agree tag soup sucked.

 

[blackoak]

What really pisses me off is the quote "we need to be like Illinois", "If we shorten the firearms season and move it out of the rut we can grow big deer and be like Illinois" Illinois does have a shorter firearms season, but Illinois also lets their deer hunters kill 2 bucks. If you want Indiana to be like Illinois go to Illinois and talk to the common deer hunter and ask how they like hunting in Illinois. The majority will tell you it sucks unless your rich. I live very close to the Illinois border and work with several guys from there. All of them say how lucky I am to live in Indiana and have the opportunity to hunt as many days with a gun that I can. Most have lost their hunting ground that they have had permission to hunt most of their lives to outfitters and leased up grounds. Several has just up and quit deer hunting due to lack of available hunting ground.

I to hunt mature deer and very seldom kill one. I don't shoot small bucks. In the last couple years I don't even shoot does. I live in Pike County and it had it's deer herd 1/2 wiped out by the EHD that went through a couple years ago. You guys that have never experienced this terrible disease are very lucky. Where I live back when it was happening you could not drive down any rural road without smelling the stink of rotting deer. The creeks, ponds, and lake near me were stinking with floating dead deer.
My freezer has been empty for a couple years now. Our herd is still way below what it was. Even though I haven't tagged a deer for a couple years now I still enjoy getting the opportunity to hunt them the liberal time with a firearm that we have"or had" and oppose these new rules.

As far as the X bow debate in early archery. I don't care what a hunter uses as long as it is a legal weapon. I will still be using my compound.

 

[paperboy]

I, for one am a fan of MOST of the rule changes proposed. I am also a HUGE fan of the 1 buck rule. I hope the 1 buck rule lives forever in Indiana. I can't believe at this point how anybody would say a bad word about it in fact. The quality of bucks being taken has improved tremendously especially in the last couple of years.

I know most of you say you "don't care" how big the buck is you shoot. WHY NOT KILL A DOE THEN AND HELP THE HERD!?!?!?!?! A doe tastes better than a buck and if you want more meat KILL ANOTHER ONE!!!! What good are you doing by killing an immature deer that will be something one day? Answer....you're not doing yourself or the herd a damn bit of good. Personally, I'd love to see Indiana enact the "earn a buck" rule. That way all you meat hunters would stop shooting the 1.5 y/o bucks that walk by opening day of shotgun season.

As far as season lengths, I've said for a long time that our firearms and muzzleloader seasons are way too liberal. Look at any other state growing big deer.....kansas...iowa...illinois. Can any of those states hunt for 30 days with a boomstick??? Nope. If you meet hunters can't get your deer killed in 18 days (proposed length if these pass) you're doing something way beyond wrong.

If Indiana does pass any of these laws they'll make it a state closer to a "destination" hunting state. I for one would love to see more money poured into local struggling economies right now. Farmer Joe wants more money to hunt his ground? Looks like you're out but the whole picture benefits. IMO and again this is my opinion, this all boils down to lazy deer hunters. If the lease goes up, go burn up some rubber and plat books and find some new places to hunt, trust me it's far from impossible. If the lease goes up, pick up that side job to pay for it. If the lease goes up, work out some sort of barter agreement and make everybody happy. Deer hunting isn't a right in this state it's a priviledge. I'm not trying to pick on anybody and i know for a fact I'm the minority on this one, but every time I hear somebody elses hard luck deer hunting story about how they lost a piece of farm ground or about how they can only shoot one buck now or this or that I get pretty disgusted. These are the same guys that only think about deer hunting from sep 15th till the end of november. For me and the few close guys I hunt with it's 365 days a year. I think these new rules will cater to guys who want to put in the time and effort to kill big mature deer consistently.

I didn't intent to offend anybody with this post, but I've basically held my tounge since this thread started and had to get a few things off my chest. Sorry for the rant and have a good day!!!

I really don't think the majority of deer hunters would care if Indiana was a "Destination State" all that would mean is less palces to hunt unless you want to fork out the big $. I bet you wouldn't be too happy if your favorite woods went to the highest bidder. Would you be happy to lay down $3000 - $5000 to get on a lease? Don't laugh, it could happen! If someone wants a short season like Iowa, Kansas or Illinois then go hunt there, I personally think our season is perfect. Again, we hear all the time that the herd needs reduced, these proposed changes are definitely not going to help that cause.

 

[paperboy]

ISN'T IT FUNNY....ABOUT 98% OF THOSE COMMENTING ON HERE ARE AGAINST THE PROPOSED CHANGES.....THAT SHOULD MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!

 

[blackoak]

Rule/Regulation Changes Here is the IDNR's web site where you can voice your opinion on the new rule changes by sending them an email.

 

[dbd870]

ISN'T IT FUNNY....ABOUT 98% OF THOSE COMMENTING ON HERE ARE AGAINST THE PROPOSED CHANGES.....THAT SHOULD MEAN SOMETHING!!!!!

Unfortunately it likely won't.

 

[sawgunner74]

when you start hearing about all the finacial benifits ,and money (in the struggling economy)hunting "big" deer brings ,you find out what is really behind these changes(and how the are brought to the dnr's table).please let me know what economy has been " saved" by canned hunt farms and other deer hunting industries. i grew up in illinios and belive me ,when i go to my brothes(still lives in illinios)its alot different than 15 years ago.its crazy how fast "big" deer harvesting has become,i wont call it hunting anymore.the only people who benifit are buissness man from chicago who buys up thousands of acers,and just about the only companies that benifit from these changes make most of there stuff in china.The average hunter will have a harder time,harder to find places ,time ,deer ,bs from fips.it wont happen over night but it will happen(they said the same crap when they were lobbying in illinois.people hardly even call it hunting anymore(managment,culling ,growing ,harvesting).

 

[antiwheeze]

I expect I will take my share of Indiana deer no matter the changes.

BTW did anyone notice the changes for THIS year. Youth hunt in Sept and can take buck or doe with any legal weapon!

 

[M4Madness]

I, for one am a fan of MOST of the rule changes proposed. I am also a HUGE fan of the 1 buck rule. I hope the 1 buck rule lives forever in Indiana. I can't believe at this point how anybody would say a bad word about it in fact. The quality of bucks being taken has improved tremendously especially in the last couple of years.

Since the one-buck rule was adopted in 2002, the antlered buck harvest in Indiana has remained constant or increased:

1989.....40,503
1990.....43,080
1991.....41,593
1992.....43,508
1993.....44,424
1994.....50,812
1995.....47,098
1996.....47,315
1997.....47,098
1998.....44,955
1999.....46,371
2000.....44,621
2001.....48,357
************
2002.....47,177
2003.....49,533
2004.....54,743
2005.....52,488
2006.....49,097
2007.....49,375
2008.....50,845
2009.....52,981

How can anyone say that the one-buck rule has increased the age class of bucks, when just as many, if not more, are being killed every season? All the one-buck rule did was take one buck from those who normally killed two a year (archery and firearm) and gave it to those who killed none each year -- essentially spreading the buck harvest over a greater number of hunters.

I know most of you say you "don't care" how big the buck is you shoot. WHY NOT KILL A DOE THEN AND HELP THE HERD!?!?!?!?! A doe tastes better than a buck and if you want more meat KILL ANOTHER ONE!!!! What good are you doing by killing an immature deer that will be something one day? Answer....you're not doing yourself or the herd a damn bit of good. Personally, I'd love to see Indiana enact the "earn a buck" rule. That way all you meat hunters would stop shooting the 1.5 y/o bucks that walk by opening day of shotgun season.

Who am I to dictate what deer others shoot? I myself take does, and hold out for a trophy buck. But, I do not try to force my hunting style on others, nor do I legislate changes to make them do so. I'll manage the properties I hunt in the manner I see fit, and if someone else wants to shoot little bucks or all the legal does they can on their properties, more power to them. What they do has no effect on my hunting.

As far as season lengths, I've said for a long time that our firearms and muzzleloader seasons are way too liberal. Look at any other state growing big deer.....kansas...iowa...illinois. Can any of those states hunt for 30 days with a boomstick??? Nope. If you meet hunters can't get your deer killed in 18 days (proposed length if these pass) you're doing something way beyond wrong.

Kansas firearms seasons total 21 days, in addition to a 9-day statewide antlerless firearms season. That's 30 days total.

http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/content/download/13713/89126/file/Regs%20Deer%20and%20Turkey%202010.pdf

Iowa has a total of 31 days to muzzleloader hunt and 14 days to shotgun hunt, in addition to a 20-day antlerless firearms season. That's a total of 65 days.

http://www.iowadnr.gov/law/files/huntingregs.pdf

Illinois has 7 days of firearms hunting, and a 3-day muzzleloader hunt. They also hold 7 days of antlerless firearms hunting. That's 17 days. They are the only state that you mentioned that has less time to deer hunt with firearms than Indiana.

Deer Season Dates 2010

If Indiana does pass any of these laws they'll make it a state closer to a "destination" hunting state. I for one would love to see more money poured into local struggling economies right now. Farmer Joe wants more money to hunt his ground? Looks like you're out but the whole picture benefits. IMO and again this is my opinion, this all boils down to lazy deer hunters. If the lease goes up, go burn up some rubber and plat books and find some new places to hunt, trust me it's far from impossible. If the lease goes up, pick up that side job to pay for it. If the lease goes up, work out some sort of barter agreement and make everybody happy.

I don't see Farmer Joe putting money into my place of employment to secure my job. How does the leasing of his land for thousands of dollars a year benefit the average hunter in the "whole picture"? I myself have permission to hunt a few private farms and wooded properties totalling a couple thousand acres, yet I'm still sympathetic to those who don't have such access, and I sure don't want to see everything leased up even if it doesn't directly affect me. I AM looking at the bigger picture when it comes to those less fortunate hunters.

Deer hunting isn't a right in this state it's a priviledge. I'm not trying to pick on anybody and i know for a fact I'm the minority on this one, but every time I hear somebody elses hard luck deer hunting story about how they lost a piece of farm ground or about how they can only shoot one buck now or this or that I get pretty disgusted. These are the same guys that only think about deer hunting from sep 15th till the end of november. For me and the few close guys I hunt with it's 365 days a year. I think these new rules will cater to guys who want to put in the time and effort to kill big mature deer consistently.

I ponder deer hunting the entire year, and hunt from October 1 through the first Sunday in January if necessary, yet still disagree with the philosophy that you have presented here. I put in the time and effort to kill big mature deer consistently, but don't need the new deer rule proposals to do so.

I didn't intent to offend anybody with this post, but I've basically held my tounge since this thread started and had to get a few things off my chest. Sorry for the rant and have a good day!!!

No offense taken.

 

[firehawk1]

Since the one-buck rule was adopted in 2002, the antlered buck harvest in Indiana has remained constant or increased:

1989.....40,503
1990.....43,080
1991.....41,593
1992.....43,508
1993.....44,424
1994.....50,812
1995.....47,098
1996.....47,315
1997.....47,098
1998.....44,955
1999.....46,371
2000.....44,621
2001.....48,357
************
2002.....47,177
2003.....49,533
2004.....54,743
2005.....52,488
2006.....49,097
2007.....49,375
2008.....50,845
2009.....52,981

How can anyone say that the one-buck rule has increased the age class of bucks, when just as many, if not more, are being killed every season? All the one-buck rule did was take one buck from those who normally killed two a year (archery and firearm) and gave it to those who killed none each year -- essentially spreading the buck harvest over a greater number of hunters.



Who am I to dictate what deer others shoot? I myself take does, and hold out for a trophy buck. But, I do not try to force my hunting style on others, nor do I legislate changes to make them do so. I'll manage the properties I hunt in the manner I see fit, and if someone else wants to shoot little bucks or all the legal does they can on their properties, more power to them. What they do has no effect on my hunting.



Kansas firearms seasons total 21 days, in addition to a 9-day statewide antlerless firearms season. That's 30 days total.

http://www.kdwp.state.ks.us/news/content/download/13713/89126/file/Regs Deer and Turkey 2010.pdf

Iowa has a total of 31 days to muzzleloader hunt and 14 days to shotgun hunt, in addition to a 20-day antlerless firearms season. That's a total of 65 days.

http://www.iowadnr.gov/law/files/huntingregs.pdf

Illinois has 7 days of firearms hunting, and a 3-day muzzleloader hunt. They also hold 7 days of antlerless firearms hunting. That's 17 days. They are the only state that you mentioned that has less time to deer hunt with firearms than Indiana.

Deer Season Dates 2010




I don't see Farmer Joe putting money into my place of employment to secure my job. How does the leasing of his land for thousands of dollars a year benefit the average hunter in the "whole picture"? I myself have permission to hunt a few private farms and wooded properties totalling a couple thousand acres, yet I'm still sympathetic to those who don't have such access, and I sure don't want to see everything leased up even if it doesn't directly affect me. I AM looking at the bigger picture when it comes to those less fortunate hunters.



I ponder deer hunting the entire year, and hunt from October 1 through the first Sunday in January if necessary, yet still disagree with the philosophy that you have presented here. I put in the time and effort to kill big mature deer consistently, but don't need the new deer rule proposals to do so.



No offense taken.

Very well put. WAY better than I could. And persoanlly I believe it is the same sentiments the majority of deer hunters agree with. DNR needs to stop catering to a single "style" of deer hunter, and just leave the rules the way they are.

 

[dcary7]

Well.. although your statistics show that the harvest of bucks has not changed.. but if anything increased.. it does not say anything as if those bucks were mature or immature. To control population does must be harvested, not bucks.. so if the doe populations werent being kept low enough, then the populations as a whole would increase.... meaning more bucks.... so.. there could be a lot of immature 4 pointers taken... so on paper it looks like... oh we harvested even more bucks than last year so we cant say they're getting any more mature.

They way the proposed changes have it set up... less bucks may be harvested initially.... which in 3-5 years there are going to be a lot of larger mature bucks available. So yes... we may be looking at harvesting less bucks, but also more quality bucks.

A lot of guys hunt more than one way also... (not all.. I understand that), but if a person is a bow hunter and firearms hunter... there is more than enough time between the two to kill a buck. 8 days is more than enough time to kill something during firearms lol. Just my . It isn't like we have a shortage of deer around here..

I honestly don't see anything wrong with these changes. I bow hunt and shotgun... I have plenty of time to put meat in the freezer (does) and if a take a buck... it will be a quality one, if not... there's next year. Would you rather shoot a 4-6 pointer each year for three or four years... or get a 10-12 pointer 1 or 2 of those years... to each person their own.. some say shoot a lil buck each year.. that's fine. I'm not one of those people. I don't mind the rule changes.

And for the record... Kansas deer hunting is also centerfire rifle.. and iowa is centerfire rifle for the month of january because they have a quota to meet.. both of those states have soo many deer it isnt funny. Iowa has a minimum quota which means the season stays open until so many are killed so that they can control the population.

Were not in the same situation here in Indiana....

 

[blackoak]

A lot of guys hunt more than one way also... (not all.. I understand that), but if a person is a bow hunter and firearms hunter... there is more than enough time between the two to kill a buck. 8 days is more than enough time to kill something during firearms lol. Just my . It isn't like we have a shortage of deer around here...

Killing something in 8 days should be no problem I will agree. To me personally, Laying down my bow and picking up my muzzle loader during firearms season is nothing more than a change of tactics for hunting deer. I am still hunting just with a different weapon. The rules now lets me enjoy this tactic for 32 days and during a time that is best for seeing and taking a mature deer. An example of the perfect deer season for me would be to kill a couple of does with either weapon I chose and then fill my buck tag on the very last day of the late archery season with a mature buck. That would be a very fulfilling season for me.

 

[kludge]

Killing something in 8 days should be no problem I will agree.

If you work and go to church, there are only two days.

 

[shibumiseeker]

If you work and go to church, there are only two days.

And if you do something else over Thanksgiving weekend that's out too...

 

[blackoak]

If you work and go to church, there are only two days.

I agree kludge, but in reality that's what these new proposed rule changes are about limiting the amount of time a person has to shoot a buck with a firearm.

 

[firehawk1]

It's kind of hard to justify all the time/effort/costs involved with hunting whitetail's for just a few days. Deer hunting isn't supposed to be about QDM, producing trophy bucks, limiting someone's time to cater to someone elses. It's about hunting deer. And being able to spend as much time in the woods doing it as you can. That dosen't mean shooting everything that walks by either, but just having the time to be out there.

If someone wants to hunt trophy bucks, practice QDM, etc... hunt them the way you want ON YOUR LAND. Don't force the rest of us to be restricted in how we choose to hunt. As I've said before, the deer herd in Indiana belongs to all of us.

 

[IndianaSlim]

The deer herd does belong to all of us, but why not strive to make it better? And if you're REALLY that dedicated to spending time in the outdoors why not pick up a bow and begin bowhunting? It's a great way to extend your season to 90+ days and it's an AWESOME family activity. You can pick up bows (especially used ones) relatively cheap and it's fun to shoot. If you're already a bowhunter, why be so hung up on gun hunting anyway? I put down the guns 2 years ago and couldn't be happier. It's way more fun to take an animal at 20 yards than to smack one at 200 with a muzzleloader. Just my take on things....

 

[M4Madness]

Well.. although your statistics show that the harvest of bucks has not changed.. but if anything increased.. it does not say anything as if those bucks were mature or immature. To control population does must be harvested, not bucks.. so if the doe populations werent being kept low enough, then the populations as a whole would increase.... meaning more bucks.... so.. there could be a lot of immature 4 pointers taken... so on paper it looks like... oh we harvested even more bucks than last year so we cant say they're getting any more mature.

Doe harvests have increased yearly as well:

1989.....28,078
1990.....33,310
1991.....42,464
1992.....37,544
1993.....42,039
1994.....46,117
1995.....54,233
1996.....54,464
1997.....48,361
1998.....43,249
1999.....41,603
2000.....43,032
2001.....43,576
2002.....45,960
2003.....47,190
2004.....55,814
2005.....60,008
2006.....62,596
2007.....61,739
2008.....65,820
2009.....66,733

The above numbers do NOT include button bucks, just female deer. We're killing almost two and a half times the number of does we did 20 years ago.

They way the proposed changes have it set up... less bucks may be harvested initially.... which in 3-5 years there are going to be a lot of larger mature bucks available. So yes... we may be looking at harvesting less bucks, but also more quality bucks.

I don't have much of a problem killing quality bucks with the current regulations. Things work just fine the way they are where I hunt. I don't need the state adding an antlerless firearm season in October and moving the firearm and muzzleloader seasons back a week and trimming 14 days from them to get a big buck. Some years I don't take a buck, and usually pass on an average of 20 bucks a season, according to my hunting logs. These new proposals do nothing but hurt those who could care less how big their buck's antlers are. If you want a big buck, hunt a big buck -- I target trophy bucks, myself. But don't try to force the entire hunting population into doing so. I think the new proposals are dreams for those who never kill big deer, and they have some sort of hope that this may be just what they need to do so.

The deer herd does belong to all of us, but why not strive to make it better? And if you're REALLY that dedicated to spending time in the outdoors why not pick up a bow and begin bowhunting? It's a great way to extend your season to 90+ days and it's an AWESOME family activity. You can pick up bows (especially used ones) relatively cheap and it's fun to shoot. If you're already a bowhunter, why be so hung up on gun hunting anyway? I put down the guns 2 years ago and couldn't be happier. It's way more fun to take an animal at 20 yards than to smack one at 200 with a muzzleloader. Just my take on things....

I bowhunt way more than I hunt with a firearm, and I've even been published in Bowhunter Magazine. BUT, why should I take away enjoyment from those who do not? I consider the rut to be winding down by the time firearms season opens anyway, even on years when it opens as early as November 12. I consider the prime time to be in the woods to be November 4-8. As a bowhunter, why should I 'hog" the last few good days that might offer a firearms hunter a marginal chance at a buck? Out of all my years of hunting, I recall only killing one buck after the second weekend of our current firearms season ever, and that was in mid muzzleloader season -- and I consider it a fluke. With the new proposals, the best buck hunting will be over before firearms season even opens. The earliest firearms season will be able to open is Nov. 19, and the latest will be Nov. 25. Even as a hardcore bowhunter, I don't feel that is fair to others at all.

 

[wildhare]

I'm greedy I say change it No I don't care, but like said before the rut is pretty much winding down by gun anyways. The only thing gun does is get deer moving by other hunters pushing them around. I love to bow hunt the last few weeks before gun. If changed I guess the whole good part of the rut will be in bow.