President Trump Indicted on Federal Charges

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  • jamil

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    You guys sound just like the leftists in this article…
    No we don't. We sound like we're not making up bull **** to fill the neat little hole that Trump dug himself into again this time.

    “Justice Alito is absolutely correct: “‘Congress did not create the Supreme Court’—the Constitution did. ‘I know this is a controversial view, but I’m willing to say it,’ he says. ‘No provision in the Constitution gives them the authority to regulate the Supreme Court—period.’”


    I completely agree with Alito. But this really doesn't address your claim. If the POTUS has exclusive, unlimited authority concerning documents in the executive branch until the hour strikes when his term is over, why doesn't he have exclusive, unlimited authority over everything in the executive branch, period? Why a carve-out just for documents? And any document, including the most sensitive military secrets, such as troop locations, spy list, weapon systems, strategic planning, etcetera all the way up to 11:59:59 PM January 20?

    Let's play this out.

    Joe Biden quits the campain. So his last day in office is January 20, 2025. He heads to the Pentagon with several aids and rumages through as many of the most sensitive documents there, right up to 11:59 AM. On the way out, he closes his eyes, taps his heals three times, as he says in is mind, these are now declassified and belong to me.

    Of course no one hears him say it but it doesn't matter because they all know the POTUS has document superpowers. They just let him take them. After all, he is the POTUS for another minute.

    And so Biden takes them home with him. Immediately calls Hunter in prison--and by prison, I mean a luxury hotel where he's confined to his room with a ankle bracelet, "Hunter, Get on the horn with Xi and tell him we want $250 million for all the strategic military plans for conflict scenarios for China.

    Legal? They're all public records now. When Biden was still president he declassified all of them at 11:59. So then they're just like any other piece of paper. He can wipe his ass with them if he wants. He can sell them to the highest bidder.
     

    jamil

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    Okay. Another scenario. POTUS rummages through the IRS documents and finds IRS generated documents regarding YOU. So he says, these are mine now. Then takes them home and posts them online. **** the laws about PII. Those documents were created by his adminstration so he has absolute authority over them. Right?
     

    BugI02

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    The Rs, in DC and in here, are too busy going after Trump

    No other candidate has 30% bedrock support, to the extent they would follow him to a third party, but all the ABTs can do is scheme to help the Dems remove their best chance to retake the whitehouse because they have convinced themselves that he can't win because that is what they want reality to be

    Magical thinking from the gentleman loser wing of the party
     

    jamil

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    The Rs, in DC and in here, are too busy going after Trump

    No other candidate has 30% bedrock support, to the extent they would follow him to a third party, but all the ABTs can do is scheme to help the Dems remove their best chance to retake the whitehouse because they have convinced themselves that he can't win because that is what they want reality to be

    Magical thinking from the gentleman loser wing of the party
    What does this have to do with anything? I don't demand that you stop supportting Trump. But you demand that I support him. **** that. I have the final say on who I do or don't support. It's not magical thinking. It's just actually thinking. I don't have to join of the Trumpian hive mind.

    And there you go with the retarded ABT **** again.

    ETA: ABT is semantically the same as never-trump. I guess you use that instead because it's easier to type ABT? It's still retarded to apply it to people who would vote for Trump over almost anyone else.
     
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    Ingomike

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    No we don't. We sound like we're not making up bull **** to fill the neat little hole that Trump dug himself into again this time.


    I completely agree with Alito. But this really doesn't address your claim. If the POTUS has exclusive, unlimited authority concerning documents in the executive branch until the hour strikes when his term is over, why doesn't he have exclusive, unlimited authority over everything in the executive branch, period? Why a carve-out just for documents? And any document, including the most sensitive military secrets, such as troop locations, spy list, weapon systems, strategic planning, etcetera all the way up to 11:59:59 PM January 20?

    Let's play this out.

    Joe Biden quits the campain. So his last day in office is January 20, 2025. He heads to the Pentagon with several aids and rumages through as many of the most sensitive documents there, right up to 11:59 AM. On the way out, he closes his eyes, taps his heals three times, as he says in is mind, these are now declassified and belong to me.

    Of course no one hears him say it but it doesn't matter because they all know the POTUS has document superpowers. They just let him take them. After all, he is the POTUS for another minute.

    And so Biden takes them home with him. Immediately calls Hunter in prison--and by prison, I mean a luxury hotel where he's confined to his room with a ankle bracelet, "Hunter, Get on the horn with Xi and tell him we want $250 million for all the strategic military plans for conflict scenarios for China.

    Legal? They're all public records now. When Biden was still president he declassified all of them at 11:59. So then they're just like any other piece of paper. He can wipe his ass with them if he wants. He can sell them to the highest bidder.
    This is just absurd! The president IS the commander in chief and therefore has the ultimate authority over the entire military including all documents. If they are selling secrets any time, then the treason charge would apply.
     

    Ingomike

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    Okay. Another scenario. POTUS rummages through the IRS documents and finds IRS generated documents regarding YOU. So he says, these are mine now. Then takes them home and posts them online. **** the laws about PII. Those documents were created by his adminstration so he has absolute authority over them. Right?
    The president and only the president, not underlings, has the constitutional power classify, declassify, and declare personal any and all documents of his administration. Those are not the documents of his administration.
     

    jamil

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    Because that is the topic, there are other constitutional authorities presidents have.
    No. You said awhile ago that it just pertains to documents. Why shouldn't every president declassify the most valuable documents and sell them? :dunno: Is that constitutional execution of power?
     

    jamil

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    This is just absurd! The president IS the commander in chief and therefore has the ultimate authority over the entire military including all documents. If they are selling secrets any time, then the treason charge would apply.

    It's only absurd because it's a fly in your ointment. If the president declares them declassified so that he can legally possess them when he's not president, then they're no longer secrets. He can distribute them freely like any other document. But, if it IS treason, then they're still secrets and as a civilian he does not have the power to possess them.
     

    jamil

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    The president and only the president, not underlings, has the constitutional power classify, declassify, and declare personal any and all documents of his administration. Those are not the documents of his administration.
    Cool. So he can post documents created regarding your taxes online. Because he got documentation superpowers.
     

    Ingomike

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    No. You said awhile ago that it just pertains to documents. Why shouldn't every president declassify the most valuable documents and sell them? :dunno: Is that constitutional execution of power?
    I never said what the entirety of the scope of a Presidents constitutional authority is, this topic is about documents.

    There are constitutional options that are on the table if a President were to abuse the authorities vested in him by the constitution. Impeachment and treason come to mind.

    It is funny you and the leftists cannot wrap your head around the concept that the President is the sole authority of the entire executive branch as vested by the constitution. Maybe if the people understood they would care more about who they elect…
     

    Ingomike

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    It's only absurd because it's a fly in your ointment. If the president declares them declassified so that he can legally possess them when he's not president, then they're no longer secrets. He can distribute them freely like any other document. But, if it IS treason, then they're still secrets and as a civilian he does not have the power to possess them.
    Making up crap as you go. Never saw a definition of treason had to involve classified documents, it can, but treason can be committed without them also…
     

    Floivanus

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    It’s not even clear a President can be tried for federal crimes without being impeached AND removed.

    Which is why this hasn’t happened before, and the classified documents was already resolved in the Clinton sock drawer case; that’s part of the absurdity in this instance.

    Which is fine, let this happen, and I will laugh when every single politician in this country is facing the exact same legal backlash and endless court cases. Reap what you sow.
     

    jamil

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    Making up crap as you go. Never saw a definition of treason had to involve classified documents, it can, but treason can be committed without them also…
    What have I made up? It's a question that needs an answer because it's a big problem if the POTUS can just declassify **** as president and do whatever he wants with it after he leaves office. If it's declassified isn't it pretty much the same as a memo he writes? Can he show or sell originals of his memos to other people? What law says he can't?

    This seems quite obvious to me as a big problem if the President has the power you claim he does. It's my understanding that the POTUS does not need clearances while in office because the office itself grants the POTUS all clearance and ultimate authority over what is and what is not classified. So no argument there.

    But when he leaves office, he no longer has that clearance implied by the office. Unless he declassified them when he was president, he has no right to see or possess them after he leaves. The exception I found for that is that he can work with the presidential records office to gain access to certain sensitive documents to aid in writing memoirs and such. But that's subject to approval.

    My contention is not even whether he declassified them before he left. For the sake of argument, I'll grant you that he did. But if he did, for him not to run afoul of the law, they must now be declassified such to allow ordinary citizen Trump, to possess them without having sufficient clearances.

    So then if they are declassified enough for him, they must be declassified for anyone. He doesn't retain his clearance, so if he is not running afoul of the law to possess them, wouldn't they be as declassified for any citizen? If that's the case, what law would make it illegal for him to show anyone those now declassified documents?

    If Trump can see them, wouldn't they need to be public record?
     

    jamil

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    How did my taxes become documents of a presidential administration?
    They were created by the IRS. I'm not talking about your tax filings. I'm talking about any paperwork generated about you by the IRS. If the POTUS has ultimate authority, why can't he declare those documents are now public record, and are now his? So then he could do with them anything he wants as a civilian. If he can grant himself the ability to possess any administration documents after he leaves why can't he take the documents the IRS created on you?
     

    jamil

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    It’s not even clear a President can be tried for federal crimes without being impeached AND removed.

    Which is why this hasn’t happened before, and the classified documents was already resolved in the Clinton sock drawer case; that’s part of the absurdity in this instance.

    Which is fine, let this happen, and I will laugh when every single politician in this country is facing the exact same legal backlash and endless court cases. Reap what you sow.
    It takes a weaponized DoJ to pursue it. Now I think that the POTUS's authority to grant himself possession for when he leaves office isn't as broad as Mike claims. But even so, the only reason Biden's DoJ is pursuing now is to help Biden get past Trump. I'm pretty sure that if Trump was not in the race, the DoJ would not have raided his home, and would not be going after him now.

    I doubt any future-former presidents will have to answer for what they're prosecuting Trump for, unless they have one bold enough with the cover of corporate media to weaponize the DoJ so blatantly.
     

    BugI02

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    What does this have to do with anything? I don't demand that you stop supportting Trump. But you demand that I support him. **** that. I have the final say on who I do or don't support. It's not magical thinking. It's just actually thinking. I don't have to join of the Trumpian hive mind.

    And there you go with the retarded ABT **** again.

    ETA: ABT is semantically the same as never-trump. I guess you use that instead because it's easier to type ABT? It's still retarded to apply it to people who would vote for Trump over almost anyone else.
    First, the post you quote was in reply to the one immediately before it by bgcatty.
    It's not always - or even often - about you

    Second, ABT fits perfectly. ABTs thrash around supporting anyone and everyone besides Trump. The fact that you say you will condescend to vote for him when you have no other choice does not affect the reality of the desperate search for a candidate to support who is 'anyone but Trump'. You've been quite willing to say it will come down to DeSantis or Trump, and it ain't gonna be DeSantis. So do you know support the last man standing with a chance to win? We both know that won't happen. That's why ABT fits so very well. I'm surprised you haven't bolted to the Ramaswamy bandwagon already

    DeSantis is done. As I famously said months ago, he is/was 2024's Scott Walker - all hat and no cattle, can't make a convincing case his success as governor will translate to success as POTUS

    You constantly act as if Trump voters will move to DeSantis or Ramaswamy or whichever also ran you are backing at any given time, the way you and your fellow travelers will supposedly move to Trump at the last minute. If he goes third party, you're toast but you insist on believing that Trump voters will 'come home' to whatever hot mess the Republican Party tries to serve up. It is wishful thinking at its finest

    You are constantly on about how the Republican candidate will need every vote he can get while being willing to cast off the 14% of the vote (30% of the 46.8% vote tally Trump had in 2020, 22 1/4 million votes) represented by those willing to follow Trump to a third party

    What percentage of those might stay home if Trump isn't on the ballot? Will it be more than the vaunted 'independent' vote or the 'Republicans who will vote Democrat because they hate Trump'. You always invoke these vague reasons why Trump can't win and you never provide actual citations even when challenged to do so. Your unfounded faith that what you believe and what is the truth are the same thing approaches that of progressives

    So how about when you cite any of the many jamilisms vis a vis Trump or 2024 or how DeSantis' smoking wreckage at the bottom of his impact crater is actually a sign of his popularity, you provide some proof to back it up - beyond 'everybody knows', which is actually a Leonard Cohen song
     
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