Opting out of SS

[WHAT HAPPENED]

Affidavit of Revocation & Rescission of SSN

What do you guys think????

im 90% going to go though with it any thoughts...

 

[level.eleven]

Affidavit of Revocation & Rescission of SSN

What do you guys think????

im 90% going to go though with it any thoughts...

I'm 100% sure you will not succeed.

 

[Tryin']

Great, I had just got done crushing my spirit, and now this. . .

 

[WHAT HAPPENED]

I'm 100% sure you will not succeed.

ok why?????????? have you tried????

 

[nawainwright]

Pretty sure the only way to "opt out" is if you are an ordained minister (and I mean the REAL kind) that has a religious objection to paying for any kind of social welfare. FYI: it will only pertain to the monies you make as said ordained minister.

 

[WHAT HAPPENED]

Pretty sure the only way to "opt out" is if you are an ordained minister (and I mean the REAL kind) that has a religious objection to paying for any kind of social welfare. FYI: it will only pertain to the monies you make as said ordained minister.

i believe that it is for medicare not SS

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

I'd do it in a heart beat. As long as I got back what I paid in.

 

[Bastispah]

Do i get EVERYTHING i paid in back?????

 

[CarmelHP]

A good explanation:

The Tax Code does provide a means for some ministers in some
denominations to exercise an option to terminate Social Security/Medicare
coverage for their ministerial earnings. IRS Form 4361 must be used, and it
must be filed on the correct basis of religious belief. If approved by the IRS, only earnings from ministerial services are exempt from self-employment tax. Form 4361 indicates that once the exemption is approved, revoke it after a certain time period elapses.
Form 4361 states that the form must be filed “by the due date, including
extensions, of your tax return for the 2nd tax year in which you had at least extensions, of your tax return for the 2nd tax year in which you had at least $400 of net earnings from self-employment, any of which came from services performed as a minister . . . ” Some have misunderstood this provision to mean “two years after ordination.” However, in some denominations a district-licensed minister may file taxes as a minister prior to ordination. It is at this same point that the two years must begin.
The individual filing the Form 4361 must certify, by signature, that specific
statements are true. The first statement is: “I certify that I am conscientiously opposed to, or be cause of my religious principles I am opposed to, the acceptance (for services I perform as a minister . . . ) of any public insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or retirement; or that makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care. (Public insurance includes insurance systems established by the Social Security Act).”
Under the Tax Reform Act of 1986, and effective after December 31,
1986, any minister who applies for exemption from Social Security based on
conscientious opposition is required to inform the ordaining, commissioning,
or licensing body of his denomination that he is conscientiously opposed to
the acceptance of “any public insurance that makes payments in the event of old age, disability, or retirement. Remember! If the exemption is approved, only earnings from ministerial services are exempt.
Remember! All ministers applying for Social Security exemption must
first notify the denominational ordaining, commissioning, or licensing body of their convictions. The third statement certifies that the applicant has not filed Form 2031. (Before 1968, one had to sign Form 2031 to elect into Social Security. Now, all ministers are included automatically unless there is a basis for electing out.)
The fourth statement deals with the specific request for exemption and
certifies an understanding as to which earnings the exemption would apply
if granted. According to the Form 4361 “General Instructions,” before your application can be approved, the IRS must again certify that you are aware of the grounds for exemption and that you want the exemption on that basis.“ When your completed Form 4361 is received, the IRS will
mail you a statement that describes the grounds for receiving an
exemption under section 1402(e). You must certify that you have
read the statement and seek exemption on the grounds listed on
the statement. The certification must be made by signing a copy of
the statement under penalties of perjury and mailing it to the IRS
service center that issued it not later than 90 days after the date the
statement was mailed to you. If it is not mailed by that time, your
exemption will not be effective until the date the signed copy is
received by the service center. If your application is approved, a copy of Form 4361 will be returned to you marked ‘approved.’ . . . Once the exemption is approved, you cannot revoke it after the due date (including extensions) of your Federal income tax return for your second tax year
beginning after 1999.” These measures are to prevent persons from seeking exemption simply on economic grounds.

A “Catch” Often Overlooked:
Key words in qualifying for exemption from Social Security coverage on
ministerial earnings are “religious principles” and “conscientiously opposed
to the acceptance of any public insurance.” The tax regulations and court
decisions are quite clear. Religious principles cannot be simply the personal
conviction that perhaps Social Security will not be there when you retire, or that a better retirement can be secured through other retirement investments. The belief must be an integral part of your religious system of beliefs—your theology.

Further, this religious principle must be one that would prevent you from
ever asking for the benefits from such a plan based on your church salary.
No basis exists for an objection to paying the taxes, or to the level of the
taxes to be paid. It is as though you would be saying, “Even if I have to pay the taxes, I can never file for the benefits, since my theology will never allow me to accept them.” It is not based on objection to based on objection to paying the taxes.

 

[CarmelHP]

Affidavit of Revocation & Rescission of SSN

What do you guys think????

im 90% going to go though with it any thoughts...

You can save yourself $40 and still get to go to the prison selected by your judge by finding the same bogus "forms" for free at dozens of sites.

 

[WHAT HAPPENED]

You can save yourself $40 and still get to go to the prison selected by your judge by finding the same bogus "forms" for free at dozens of sites.

So your telling me that a county in Houston Texas,
Galveston County that all the people there are going to go to jail????????

http://financialservices.house.gov/media/pdf/062305rg.pdf

OOOOO and read here also how they did it

How Galveston Opted Out of Social Security



ooooo and read this also ----> Counties Opt Out of Social Security? - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

 

[CarmelHP]

So your telling me that a county in Houston Texas,
Galveston County that all the people there are going to go to jail????????

http://financialservices.house.gov/media/pdf/062305rg.pdf

OOOOO and read here also how they did it

How Galveston Opted Out of Social Security



ooooo and read this also ----> Counties Opt Out of Social Security? - Glenn Beck - FOXNews.com

Why do people who glom on to these things only read what they want to see? At the very link you posted:

Until the early 1980s government entities, such as cities and counties, had the right of opting out of Social Security and establishing their own retirement system.

The law changed in 1983 to be exact. Employees hired on or after January 1, 1984 had mandatory coverage. It is now 2010. 2010 is after 1984.

And we're talking only about county employees, not the whole county, you understand that, right?

 

[WHAT HAPPENED]

Why do people who glom on to these things only read what they want to see? At the very link you posted:

The law changed in 1983 to be exact. Employees hired on or after January 1, 1984 had mandatory coverage. It is now 2010. 2010 is after 1984.

And we're talking only about county employees, not the whole county, you understand that, right?

so your ok with paying for something that you never will get????? I will never get so why do "I" have to pay for it??????

 

[CarmelHP]

so your ok with paying for something that you never will get????? I will never get so why do "I" have to pay for it??????

That's a non-sequitor. Don't like it, get the law changed, I'll cheer you on, but denying it's the law, or saying there is some magical incantation you can do to not have the law apply to you is just plain not true.

 

[nawainwright]

A good explanation:

The Tax Code does provide a means for some ministers in some
denominations to exercise an option to terminate Social Security/Medicare
coverage for their ministerial earnings. IRS Form 4361 must be used, and it
must be filed on the correct basis of religious belief. If approved by the IRS, only earnings from ministerial services are exempt from self-employment tax. Form 4361 indicates that once the exemption is approved, revoke it after a certain time period elapses.
Form 4361 states that the form must be filed “by the due date, including
extensions, of your tax return for the 2nd tax year in which you had at least extensions, of your tax return for the 2nd tax year in which you had at least $400 of net earnings from self-employment, any of which came from services performed as a minister . . . ” Some have misunderstood this provision to mean “two years after ordination.” However, in some denominations a district-licensed minister may file taxes as a minister prior to ordination. It is at this same point that the two years must begin.
The individual filing the Form 4361 must certify, by signature, that specific
statements are true. The first statement is: “I certify that I am conscientiously opposed to, or be cause of my religious principles I am opposed to, the acceptance (for services I perform as a minister . . . ) of any public insurance that makes payments in the event of death, disability, old age, or retirement; or that makes payments toward the cost of, or provides services for, medical care. (Public insurance includes insurance systems established by the Social Security Act).”
Under the Tax Reform Act of 1986, and effective after December 31,
1986, any minister who applies for exemption from Social Security based on
conscientious opposition is required to inform the ordaining, commissioning,
or licensing body of his denomination that he is conscientiously opposed to
the acceptance of “any public insurance that makes payments in the event of old age, disability, or retirement. Remember! If the exemption is approved, only earnings from ministerial services are exempt.
Remember! All ministers applying for Social Security exemption must
first notify the denominational ordaining, commissioning, or licensing body of their convictions. The third statement certifies that the applicant has not filed Form 2031. (Before 1968, one had to sign Form 2031 to elect into Social Security. Now, all ministers are included automatically unless there is a basis for electing out.)
The fourth statement deals with the specific request for exemption and
certifies an understanding as to which earnings the exemption would apply
if granted. According to the Form 4361 “General Instructions,” before your application can be approved, the IRS must again certify that you are aware of the grounds for exemption and that you want the exemption on that basis.“ When your completed Form 4361 is received, the IRS will
mail you a statement that describes the grounds for receiving an
exemption under section 1402(e). You must certify that you have
read the statement and seek exemption on the grounds listed on
the statement. The certification must be made by signing a copy of
the statement under penalties of perjury and mailing it to the IRS
service center that issued it not later than 90 days after the date the
statement was mailed to you. If it is not mailed by that time, your
exemption will not be effective until the date the signed copy is
received by the service center. If your application is approved, a copy of Form 4361 will be returned to you marked ‘approved.’ . . . Once the exemption is approved, you cannot revoke it after the due date (including extensions) of your Federal income tax return for your second tax year
beginning after 1999.” These measures are to prevent persons from seeking exemption simply on economic grounds.

A “Catch” Often Overlooked:
Key words in qualifying for exemption from Social Security coverage on
ministerial earnings are “religious principles” and “conscientiously opposed
to the acceptance of any public insurance.” The tax regulations and court
decisions are quite clear. Religious principles cannot be simply the personal
conviction that perhaps Social Security will not be there when you retire, or that a better retirement can be secured through other retirement investments. The belief must be an integral part of your religious system of beliefs—your theology.

Further, this religious principle must be one that would prevent you from
ever asking for the benefits from such a plan based on your church salary.
No basis exists for an objection to paying the taxes, or to the level of the
taxes to be paid. It is as though you would be saying, “Even if I have to pay the taxes, I can never file for the benefits, since my theology will never allow me to accept them.” It is not based on objection to based on objection to paying the taxes.

Thanks for posting the link, it has to be more than an "I don't wanna" thing. When I got let go from the church I worked for, I could have applied for unemployment, but I didn't based on my belief that the govt should in no way insure anything. It's not their constitutional business to insure (let me clarify, unemployment is insurance, no matter how you cut it). I believe that the church should be the primary "fallback" for people who are in need, regardless of whether the church has done a good job of that, it is my belief. It is also my hope that the church will return to that ideal. [/rant]

 

[dross]

There is a legit way to get out of it. Go to a state where the government workers have the PERA retirement program. Become a teacher or a state employee. Pay into that system until you retire. You don't have to pay SSN, and your retirement can possibly earn you near the level of your highest salary. Also, in years when your retirement fund investments do better than expected, you can expect the PERA board members who administer it, who are also beneficiaries, to increase your benefits at faster rates than that COL. In addition, in the years your retirement investments do poorly, and there is a potential for the fund to lose money, the taxpayers must make up the difference from the general fund, by law.

That's what we give our government workers here in Colorado.

so your ok with paying for something that you never will get????? I will never get so why do "I" have to pay for it??????

So because he kindly explained to you (and he's a lawyer and a judge, check out his profile) what the law is, you now decide he's defending the system? Bizarre, and rude.

My advice is to go try it out. Don't use the free stuff, everyone knows you only get what you pay for. Pay for the forms, do your thing, and keep us all posted on how it works out. I mean it, I'm really encouraging you to do it. Keep us posted.

 

[level.eleven]

So because he kindly explained to you (and he's a lawyer and a judge, check out his profile) what the law is, you now decide he's defending the system? Bizarre, and rude.

My advice is to go try it out. Don't use the free stuff, everyone knows you only get what you pay for. Pay for the forms, do your thing, and keep us all posted on how it works out. I mean it, I'm really encouraging you to do it. Keep us posted.

Quit trying to get the guy arrested. That's not very nice.

OP: check out the story of Larken Rose sometime. Tax protestors have been around for ages. Nothing has ever came of it except jail time.

 

[WHAT HAPPENED]

Ok i have been looking and i cant find out where it says "By law" that i have to pay...

 

[dross]

Ok i have been looking and i cant find out where it says "By law" that i have to pay...

You probably don't. Send for your kit.

 

[CarmelHP]

Ok i have been looking and i cant find out where it says "By law" that i have to pay...

Just go ahead and follow dross' advice.