Note from the Pediatrician

[jeremy]

A gun safe is something a lot of people can not afford. Especially in these times.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

I would fight this battle, because the "facts" being cited are a re-statement of Brady-darling Arthur Kellerman's bogus claim that, "guns in homes are 43 times more likely to be used against a household member, than a criminal intruder".


Here is are some of the reasons why Dr. Kellerman's doctored statistic is :

Correspondence -- NEJM 1994; 330: 365-368 -- February 3, 1994

"The fatal flaw in the effort by Kellermann et al. to evaluate the protective value of firearms is that they used only data on criminal homicide. As Kellermann and Reay have previously noted, (1) no study of homicide can evaluate the protective value of firearms, since only 0.1 percent of the over 2 million protective uses of firearms involve mortality, (2,3) and those uses were noncriminal. Kellermann and his colleagues should have realized they were using the wrong methods and data...

Kellermann et al. reveal little about homicide, since they limited their analysis to homicides that occurred in the home in three metropolitan counties (which, statistically speaking equals a sample size of 1! )... With a few other exclusions, the crude odds ratios were based on 21 percent of the areas' homicides, and the adjusted odds ratios on just 17 percent. The result was an unrepresentative sample of homicides -- over 40 percent involved family members killing family members, although nationally such killings account for just over 10 percent of homicides (4). Their finding that most killings in and around homes involve people who know each other is as newsworthy as the finding that alcohol is involved in barroom slayings."


"The study by Kellermann et al. suffers from many flaws...The authors' interpretation of their results is an example of "data torturing" (1). Specifically, Kellermann and his colleagues are guilty of Procrustean data torturing, which is defined as "deciding on the hypothesis to be proved [in this case, owning a gun increases the risk of homicide] and making the data fit the hypothesis." Never mind that..., by the authors' own admission, 11...were killed by private citizens acting legally in self-defense. In other words, some instances of gun ownership prevented the owner or family members from becoming victims -- indeed, may have even saved their lives.

What the article failed to address is that gun ownership by responsible people is not a risk factor. In other words, it is not the gun (an inanimate object) that is the problem but its inappropriate use."


Probably the most damning remark, (and unanswered by Kellerman et al in their attempt to defend the indefensible) is from the graduate statistics class:

"On what basis can one generalize from a sample of people who have been murdered to a population of people who keep guns in their homes?"

The students of Dr. Mark Ferris's Mathematical Statistics 460
Saint Louis University"

 

[-XL-]

Thanks Biohazard for the addresses and thanks everyone for your responses.

Dailylc the brochure doesn't mention any of those things but it's "age appropriate" so maybe they're on the 2 and 3 year old ones, I don't know. I do see on the bottom of the back that it was copywritten in 1994.

Does anyone know anything about the politcal climate in 1994 as it pertained to gun ownership?

 

[jeremy]

Yeah in '94 guns are the Devil!

 

[kludge]

If i'm not mistaken the majority of the "homocides" in the Kellerman study were suicides... but it's been a while.

 

[Bushido Devil Dog]

If i'm not mistaken the majority of the "homocides" in the Kellerman study were suicides... but it's been a while.

You are CORRECT, Sir!!


36. Isn't a gun in the home 43 times more likely to kill a friend or loved-one than be used against an intruder?


"This study was performed over a 6 year period in one
single county in the USA. As this study is was done in just one county,
that makes its results useless for saying what happens anywhere else.
Scientists and researchers call this "a sample size of one".

The comparison is meaningless because it is an apples vs oranges
comparison. 37 of the 43 are suicides, 4.6 are classified as criminal
homicides, and 1.3 were classified as accidents.[36]

Kellermann and Reay, the authors of the study have stated themselves
that "cases in which burglars or intruders are wounded or frightened
away by the use or display of a firearm [and] cases in which would-be
intruders may have purposely avoided a house known to be armed.."[36]
should be included as a benefit. BUT, when they calculated their
comparison they did NOT include those cases. They therefore undercounted
protection uses by at least 500 times.[37] If the purpose is to compare
defensive uses verses misuse, all defensive uses should be counted, not
just the 0.2% of time when a defensive use results in the death of an
attacker. You measure defensive uses by lives saved, not criminals
killed, after all, the purpose of self defense is to prevent or stop a
criminal attack, not kill the attacker."

 

[Biohazard]

XL says that the pediatrician is affiliated with St Vincent. Here is their contact info:

St. Vincent Indianapolis Hospital
Attention: CareLine
2001 West 86th Street
Indianapolis, Indiana 46260

e-mail contact
Contact Us

What I wrote them:
I object to the anti-gun political agenda that is being pushed by your pediatricians. According to research conducted by professor John Lott Jr (based on statistics gathered by law enforcement and CDC) your claims are erroneous. I will not be taking my children to any pediatrician that pursues your politics, showing a lack of ethics. I will also be changing all of my health care providers to ones not affiliated with your hospital. It is incumbent on you to disseminate valid information, not an emotional opinion.

 

[redneckmedic]

29,000 people killed by doctors errors per year in the united states (Journal of American Medial Association).. less than 700 by firearms accidents. (NRA-ILA)

show that to your doctor

x100 and rep'd

 

[redneckmedic]

I do not disagree with the above add, (at least the educational attempt) As medical professionals it is our job to treat and education the public and patients! However the paragraph should read completely different if they are trying to education parents on the inherent dangers of guns. The education should be on the (ir)responsibilitys and actions of the gun owners not the guns themselves. Guns alone are harmless, they need human intervention to make them "complete".

 

[JPY]

A gun safe is something a lot of people can not afford. Especially in these times.

Hell, in today's ammunition market, it's cheaper to buy a pistol safe than a box of JHP.

 

[Beau]

Not a mention on swimming pools in their safety flyer. More children drown in swimming pools every year than you would think.

Swimming pools are so dangerous in fact, that 300 children under age 5 die and 2,000 more children under age five visit hospital emergency rooms for submersion injuries every year!!!

But it's those evil guns you shouldn't have in the home.

 

[Roadie]

Come on now, you know it is different with guns! They were designed to kill! oy

I don't know about you, but for me something that ISN'T normally associated with killing, yet still kills hundreds or thousands (pools, autos, etc) should be more of a focus than guns. Most people are at least smart enough to realize that guns can be dangerous. It's when people don't realize something is potentially harmful that problems begin. People take driving, pools, etc for granted as safe, and don't pay attention as they should. THIS is when accidents start.

I would bet there are more injuries to children each year that are preceded with the words "Hey! Watch this!" than there are by guns.

 

[wolfman]

E-mail contact info in the links listed below.

American Academy of Pediatrics
141 Northwest Point Blvd
Elk Grove Village, 60007
847.434.7085
fax 847.228.6432
COMMUNITY PEDIATRICS

It is in Illinois according to the zip code and Google. They seem to have a gun agenda. Use the search function for handgun or firearm.

American Medical Association
515 N. State Street
Chicago, IL 60654
(800) 621-8335
American Medical Association

Interesting that they are both located in Illinois. Some people believe in coincidence. Me, not so much.

Edited to add:
My e-mail to the AAP
"I object to your anti-gun political agenda.

For these 2 groups, it isn't really what you would call a political agenda inso far as they are pushing it because the politicians want it, but it is these groups that have the agenda, and they put pressure on politicans to pass laws to "Protect innocent children" from their parents.

 

[jontheturboguy]

Sorry, but more children die in auto accidents, and faulty child seats than shootings.

You don't see them printing fliers about how to keep your kid(s) out of cars do you?

 

[Apokalypsi]

Age does not matter when it comes to firearm safety with kids. My cousin was only 2-3 when he went into his dad's room, grabbed the pistol and magazine out of the bedstand, loaded/cocked the gun, and shot himself in the thigh with a hollowpoint. Luckily it didn't hit anything or have time to expand or he would have lost his leg. You can still see the indent in his leg from the bullethole though and he's 28 now.

 

[Biohazard]

"Political" as in based on or motivated by partisan, or self-serving objectives, not necessarily relating to governmental affairs. See also dictionary.com.

The word meaning can be debated ad nauseam, the meaning of the overall e-mail is relatively clear. A definition isn't what this thread is about.

 

[Sasquatchhunter]

"It is best to keep guns out of the home." Thats just pure propaganda

 

[repair]

One of my doctors nurses noticed my gun and ask the doctor about it, he told them that he felt safer being in the exam room with me and my gun then with some of his other paitents that don't have a gun.

for my Doc!

 

[redneckmedic]

Sorry, but more children die in auto accidents, and faulty child seats than shootings.

You don't see them printing fliers about how to keep your kid(s) out of cars do you?

Not faulty car seats...but jackasses who don't know how to install them correctly and adjust them over time!

 

[redneckmedic]

"It is best to keep guns out of the home." Thats just pure propaganda

I agree it is best to keep guns out of the home! I only shoot mine outside!