Need advice

[lpersinger]

I tried to renew my gun permit in 2004. To make a long story short, I had to take a plea bargain in 2003 on a charge after being attacked by 2 guests in my home. They called the police, I didn't, so I was arrested. Being a Fireman, I had to take the plea for an A Misdemenor that reads Criminal Recklessness because being a Fireman I couldn't risk the Felony conviction. I shot a single round out the back door into the ground so the two men would leave. When I tried to renew my permit I was denied and had a hearing with the ISP and was still denied. I am asking for any help or advice on what I need to do to get it renewed/apply for my lifetime. I haven't tried since 2003 because I wanted to let some time go by. Any advice or information would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[techres]

I tried to renew my gun permit in 2004. To make a long story short, I had to take a plea bargain in 2003 on a charge after being attacked by 2 guests in my home. They called the police, I didn't, so I was arrested. Being a Fireman, I had to take the plea for an A Misdemenor that reads Criminal Recklessness because being a Fireman I couldn't risk the Felony conviction. I shot a single round out the back door into the ground so the two men would leave. When I tried to renew my permit I was denied and had a hearing with the ISP and was still denied. I am asking for any help or advice on what I need to do to get it renewed/apply for my lifetime. I haven't tried since 2003 because I wanted to let some time go by. Any advice or information would be GREATLY appreciated.

Get a lawyer?

 

[Dogman]

Get a lawyer?

techres is right, but I don't know that a lawyer would be able to do much for you since what you were charged with involved a gun and ISP has the last say so on LTCH being issued. JMO

 

[Wabatuckian]

Still, it's a "must issue." If you're found to be a "proper person" they have to give it to you.

The only misdemeanor I personally know of that will keep you from owning is a domestic violence.

Getting the lawyer to qualify you as a proper person may not be a far stretch - but you may also have to take some psychological tests for "excessive anger," etc. and get a shrink to sign off on it.

Just what I've heard. I'm not an attorney.

Josh <><

 

[rkba_net]

IMHO you will NEVER qualify for a permit in the state of Indiana unless there is a change in the law... the definition of "proper person" is codied in the Indiana code... your situation appears to fall under item 8...

IC 35-47-1-7
"Proper person"
Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:
(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44-3-3 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter;
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year;
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-41-1-6.3), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7;
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun;
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter;
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application;
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun;
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application; or
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age.

 

[lpersinger]

Well super. Maybe My Man Mitch will throw me a bone. How about the Utah permit I keep hearing about?

 

[CarmelHP]

Apply again. See what happens. If you're denied, then seek out a lawyer.

 

[schwaky18]

Well super. Maybe My Man Mitch will throw me a bone. How about the Utah permit I keep hearing about?

Won't work if your an Indiana resident you HAVE to have a Indiana permit. If you can change your resident you may have a chance, although I doubt you can unless you live 6 months somewhere else.

Apply again, if you get denied find an attorney that deals with this. From my reading of the law it can be argued that you are a proper person.

(1) does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement under IC 35-44-3-3 within five (5) years before the person applies for a license or permit under this chapter; Your ok
(2) does not have a conviction for a crime for which the person could have been sentenced for more than one (1) year; Your ok
(3) does not have a conviction for a crime of domestic violence (as defined in IC 35-41-1-6.3), unless a court has restored the person's right to possess a firearm under IC 35-47-4-7; Your ok
(4) is not prohibited by a court order from possessing a handgun; Your ok
(5) does not have a record of being an alcohol or drug abuser as defined in this chapter; Your OK
(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct; Maybe not here, is this the only thing that they can point to as "anger problems" (maybe a psychological test like said before can rebut this)
(7) does not make a false statement of material fact on the person's application; Your OK
(8) does not have a conviction for any crime involving an inability to safely handle a handgun; hmmm this is the big one, you kind of plead guilty to this. However, a good lawyer could argue against it
(9) does not have a conviction for violation of the provisions of this article within five (5) years of the person's application; or N/A pasted 5 years
(10) does not have an adjudication as a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for a license or permit under this chapter is less than twenty-three (23) years of age. N/A

If the above fails the lawyer can always turn to your rights under the Con. of Indiana. This statute violates it. You have a right to keep and bear arms and a Misdemeanor for shooting a single round out the back door into the ground so the two men would leave should not disqualify you from this right. Hell, I have over 10 Misdemeanors (granted they are for speeding but it is still a misdemeanor).

Honestly it depends on how bad you want it because the con. arg. will be costly for you to hire a lawyer to argue. But you are in the legal profession a "perfect plaintiff." You are a good citizen, a firefighter, who is just getting screwed by overly broad laws. You have a good possibility of creating very gun friendly case law. If I were you and had the money I would fight the hell out of this. Or if I was an attorney and knew this area of law well I would help you fight the hell out of this


Disclaimer I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. I am just a law student with a final tomorrow who is sick of studying.

 

[rkba_net]

How about the Utah permit I keep hearing about?

That will not do... as you are an Indiana resident...


IC 35-47-2-21
Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states
Sec. 21. (a) Retail dealers' licenses issued by other states or foreign countries will not be recognized in Indiana except for sales at wholesale.
(b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

 

[sloughfoot]

Sorry, but the conviction of Criminal Recklessness with a firearm disqualifies you under Number 6 of the statute.

I have attended revocation hearings to get permits revoked after conviction of Crim Reck in my previous life....

No way to sugar coat this bad news.. You did use deadly force in an inappropriate manner. And then you pled to it!

Talk to a knowledgable attorney though. There is a 5 year rule I think, but it will be an uphill fight for you.

Good luck,
Dean

 

[JosephR]

Still, it's a "must issue." If you're found to be a "proper person" they have to give it to you.

The only misdemeanor I personally know of that will keep you from owning is a domestic violence.

Getting the lawyer to qualify you as a proper person may not be a far stretch - but you may also have to take some psychological tests for "excessive anger," etc. and get a shrink to sign off on it.

Just what I've heard. I'm not an attorney.

Josh <><

Except the face of your license says it can be revoked if you commit a felony or improper or reckless use of a handgun. reading is fundamental.

Firing a warning shot through your home is a reckless/improper use of a handgun. If you needed to shoot to stop a threat then you needed to shoot to stop a threat.

Sorry I can't help.

 

[sloughfoot]

Except the face of your license says it can be revoked if you commit a felony or improper or reckless use of a handgun. reading is fundamental.

Firing a warning shot through your home is a reckless/improper use of a handgun. If you needed to shoot to stop a threat then you needed to shoot to stop a threat.

Sorry I can't help.

You said it better than I did......

 

[Bill of Rights]

Well super. Maybe My Man Mitch will throw me a bone. How about the Utah permit I keep hearing about?

I see three possibilities for you getting your LTCH back:

1. Apply and if necessary, ask for a hearing if they say no, citing five years of good behavior.
2. Return to the court in which you took the plea and see if the judge will lower the charge to something less related, or possibly even expunge it.
3. Contact the governor for a pardon.

In all cases, the best thing you could do is seek out the advice of an attorney, preferably the one who represented you in 2003. It's his job to know the law as it relates to your case. That's why you paid (and will be paying) him. We can point you in the right direction, but he can take you where you want to go.

ETA: It also sounds from what you posted that had Castle Doctrine been in place then, you would not have had to take any such plea. This would be a point to discuss with your lawyer, too, insofar as how the judge might view things in light of changes in the law.

Good luck and when it's all said and done and you have your LTCH back, post the story here, please!

Blessings,
B

 

[SavageEagle]

If the two in your house were acting in a violent or otherwise threatening manner and you didn't have any other choice to get them out, you could use this arguement with your lawyer to get this either expunged or in an appeals process. Just a thought.