My Problem with "See something. Say something"

[Hornett]

Much of the news media is down on the FBI this morning because they had the Orlando shooter on some observation list.
And there is this re-invigoration of the "See something Say something: mantra.
Here is the problem.
This is still The United States of America.
People cannot be detained unless there is a direct suspicion of a crime.
I get the feeling that the media would have liked to see the shooter locked up for the public's protection.
BUT, he did nothing illegal until the night he stepped into that night club.
All of this 'tell on anyone you see acting suspiciously' candy, girly, nonsense makes me feel like we are just about a hairs breadth from a Minority Report type of policing.
The only difference is that instead of pre-cogs that can actually tell the future, we will have a bunch of 'panties in a wad' liberals arresting people that have too many guns or grow their own gardens.
Difficult times for sure.

 

[GLOCKMAN23C]

I agree with you. If my history is right, WWII Germany had the same type signs, to turn in Jews and those assisting with getting them out of the country.

 

[eldirector]

My problem is the hypocrisy:

If you are RIGHT, you are largely ignored.

If you are WRONG, you are a hate-monger.

There is no winning.

 

[BogWalker]

See something say something would very quickly be counteracted by accusations of profiling by the same people who encouraged see something say something in the first place.

 

[Que]

I used to agree with this, but not anymore. The issues are "what are you seeing?" and "what are you saying?" If I see a man with a rifle print under a raincoat on a day that is sunny and 87 degrees, walking on my campus, I'm saying something. If I see a guy who doesn't look like he belongs in my neighborhood, I'm going on my merry way, unless he's looking in my neighbor's window. It's tricky, but sometimes it's good to take the chance and look like a fool.

 

[Hornett]

I am all for that Que.
If I saw a robbery in progress or something that is obviously suspicious, I would call.

However, I get this overwhelming feeling that this new media flurry is about more than just being a good citizen.

 

[Que]

I am all for that Que.
If I saw a robbery in progress or something that is obviously suspicious, I would call.

However, I get this overwhelming feeling that this new media flurry is about more than just being a good citizen.

Yeah, I've been ignoring everything in the news lately.

 

[pudly]

You don't need a "see something, say something" program to report a suspicious man with a gun. As has already been proven by various anti-gunners.

 

[Tombs]

Americans do this fine, the problem is if it's a minority they refuse to speak up because of political correctness. Their logic lead to the deaths of 49 people.

If someone is telling you they're about to go murder a bunch of people, it doesn't matter what their skin color is, you need to be calling authorities even if it risks your own life to do so. Your life in exchange for the lives of potentially hundreds of others is a very acceptable choice.

 

[GIJEW]

Part of this "see something...", "be aware of your surroundings", stuff is that the people advocating that aren't willing to consider doing anything more than that. Calling the PD is fine, in itself, but if you're not prepared/willing to do anything more under any circumstances, then there's a problem.

Larry Pratt's essay "a nation of cowards" comes to mind

 

[phylodog]

People cannot be detained unless there is a direct suspicion of a crime.

The "See something, say something" suggestion doesn't change that. Someone calling 911 to report something suspicious does not strip anyone of their rights. It's an effort to assist the authorities in preventing crime, nothing more.

 

[Jludo]

The "See something, say something" suggestion doesn't change that. Someone calling 911 to report something suspicious does not strip anyone of their rights. It's an effort to assist the authorities in preventing crime, nothing more.

A question I've had for law enforcement, is a tip like this enough probably cause for a warrant? Does it depend on the specifics or does it always require at least a little more investigation first?

 

[eatsnopaste]

The "See something, say something" suggestion doesn't change that. Someone calling 911 to report something suspicious does not strip anyone of their rights. It's an effort to assist the authorities in preventing crime, nothing more.

So when the police say that they stopped you and asked for your ID because someone called in a "man with a gun" stopping you, ID'ing you and quite possibly frisking you (for your and the officers safety of course) is in no way violating any rights?

 

[Denny347]

So when the police say that they stopped you and asked for your ID because someone called in a "man with a gun" stopping you, ID'ing you and quite possibly frisking you (for your and the officers safety of course) is in no way violating any rights?

"It depends"...change one tiny fact can change the answer to your question. Location, method of carry, what is being carried, time of day, witness information, witness statement, etc...

 

[Denny347]

I've caught many a burglars from "see something, say something." Witnesses were calling 911 on the lookouts. MY RIGHTS!!!!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So when the police say that they stopped you and asked for your ID because someone called in a "man with a gun" stopping you, ID'ing you and quite possibly frisking you (for your and the officers safety of course) is in no way violating any rights?

If you client has dope or a stolen gun, you bet is a rights violation. A huge right violation.

In all seriousness, it depends. If a long-haired tall white guy in a white shirt is reported waving a gun around, and you are a short, bald African-American in a red shirt, problem.

But if someone calls you in and the only thing that happens is a stop, not a problem.

 

[phylodog]

A question I've had for law enforcement, is a tip like this enough probably cause for a warrant? Does it depend on the specifics or does it always require at least a little more investigation first?

In most instances I'd say a tip like this is far from enough to establish PC for a warrant. Perhaps if someone called in criminal activity or something extremely suspicious and had video to back it up and that video contained evidence.