My love/hate relationship with the Sig P320

[Creedmoor]

Odd how they reassigned the officer and are investigating mishandling of the evil P320.

Mass. police officer reassigned after accidentally firing his gun inside a school

The officer was in a staff bathroom at a high school Tuesday afternoon when he removed his department-issued firearm from its holster and “unintentionally discharged” it, according to police.

www.masslive.com

He picked the one for "fighting" to play with, not the one for fun.

 

[Route 45]

He picked the one for "fighting" to play with, not the one for fun.

 

[Route 45]

Welp, cancel the lawsuit.

 

[cedartop]

Due to a few issues I’ve had with my Sig P320 X Five, I’ve considered trading it multiple times. The two issues that have frustrated me are the ridiculous optic mounting system and the fact that my particular pistol cannot co-witness since I lose my iron sight when I mount an optic. I know that sounds like the same issue but allow me to explain.

The P320 is designed in such a way that if you’re not careful, you can render the pistol inoperable. Well, maybe not inoperable, but you it will cause nonstop failures to eject. Looking at the pistol from the back, the right hand optic screw goes right on top of the ejector spring plunger. If you use a screw that’s too long it will impede upon that plunger and after extended time sitting in your safe or just not being shot, the plunger will bend. That will cause your spent casings to fail to eject.

The other issue I have with Sig is that some of their optics ready P320s lose their iron sight when you take the plate off to mount an optic while others retain their iron sights. Why not make them all the same way? They should all retain their iron sights. I’m not even going to go into the issue of the P320s being their own proprietary optic footprint. Come on Sig help us consumers out by streamlining the manufacturing of these pistols!

I too have a love/hate relationship with the 320's, but not for your reasons. Well, I agree the loose the rear sight thing is something they should have nipped in the bud. I like their mounting system however. I like that I can direct mount a Sig Optic or a DPP, but if I want a Trijicon or Holosun all I need is a filler plate, not an actual adapter. As for the screw too long, that has been a thing I have had to pay attention to since my first foray into slide mounted optics back in 2009. That was a Glock and there were other brands that had similar issues. Should Sig have learned from this? Yes, probably.

Other things I like are the ergonomics. All of the controls work well for me. I like the grips especially on my AXG models. Yes, I could do without the high bore axis but it is not that big a deal. I like the reliable, drop free metal mags though I wish they were a little cheaper. For me the 320's have been very reliable. The modularity is fun though I don't get into it like some do.

What don't I like? Well the trigger is so-so with an anemic reset. My biggest complaint is the accuracy. They just suck. You can say it is me, but everything I have, Walthers, Glocks, 1911's, Staccato, even my 365's outshoot my 320's at 25 yards. Mostly by a large margin. If I was into more accuracy related interests as opposed to self defense, IDPA, and USPSA, this would definitely make them a no go. As it is, for right now the plusses outweigh the negatives for me.

 

[Amishman44]

I had a P320 full size, until I shot a Glock 21.

An SRO had a preventable firearm discharge, IN a school and DURING the school day...???
Lucky no one was injured or killed!!!
Question: Is he still an SRO???

As for me, I'm sticking with my Glock pistols...
The Glock has a far better grip angle for natural point-n-shoot shooting and they have a proven safety system to prevent 'drop-n-go-bang' discharges.
They need a new trigger but, other than that, they work great for me!

 

[Route 45]

The Glock has a far better grip angle for natural point-n-shoot shooting…

If this was even remotely true, there wouldn’t be an entire industry devoted to correcting it through a myriad of clones and grip mod services.

Glock ergonomics are literally the one thing that fuels the search for a more natural pointing alternative by so many, served by a plethora of poly framed striker fired pistols, none of which share the unnatural grip angle of the Glock.

 

[Creedmoor]

An SRO had a preventable firearm discharge, IN a school and DURING the school day...???
Lucky no one was injured or killed!!!
Question: Is he still an SRO???

As for me, I'm sticking with my Glock pistols...
The Glock has a far better grip angle for natural point-n-shoot shooting and they have a proven safety system to prevent 'drop-n-go-bang' discharges.
They need a new trigger but, other than that, they work great for me!

Out of all the pistols we have, I own three Glocks. The only pistol triggers I have replaced parts on to get a decent trigger on were, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
All three glocks.

Perfection doesn't go "Bang" lol

 

[Bassat]

Glock 21 grip angle is a perfect, natural pointer for me, also.

 

[Amishman44]

If this was even remotely true, there wouldn’t be an entire industry devoted to correcting it through a myriad of clones and grip mod services.

Glock ergonomics are literally the one thing that fuels the search for a more natural pointing alternative by so many, served by a plethora of poly framed striker fired pistols, none of which share the unnatural grip angle of the Glock.

For me...Glock has a far better grip angle, for a natural point-n-shoot pistol, than any other semi-auto pistol...feel free to choose your own!
Nuthin' wrong with someone liking something else!

 

[Bassat]

If this was even remotely true, there wouldn’t be an entire industry devoted to correcting it through a myriad of clones and grip mod services.

Glock ergonomics are literally the one thing that fuels the search for a more natural pointing alternative by so many, served by a plethora of poly framed striker fired pistols, none of which share the unnatural grip angle of the Glock.

If the 1911 weren't such a poor design, there would be a whole industry devoted to fixing those flaws.

When it comes to grip angle and shootability, out of all the available pistols on the market today, Glock seems to be the only manufacturer that got it right.

Perspective is everything.

 

[Amishman44]

If the 1911 weren't such a poor design, there would be a whole industry devoted to fixing those flaws.

When it comes to grip angle and shootability, out of all the available pistols on the market today, Glock seems to be the only manufacturer that got it right.

Perspective is everything.

Experience mattes too...I grew up shooting SA revolvers and, the old-school plow-share grip angle, along with the muscle-memory engrained in my neural pathways, the Glock grip angle is much better suited for a 'natural' point-n-shoot grip angle for me!

 

[92FSTech]

I've reached the conclusion that "natural pointability" is kind of a lie. It's a learned and practiced skill.

When I started shooting with handgun optics, I started spending a lot of time working on consistent presentation so I didn't have to "find the dot" when the gun came up. I quickly learned that NOTHING pointed naturally for me (even though I had a few platforms that I'd always believed had...I just hadn't recognize the problems when shooting irons). I had to spend a lot of time refining my hand position and grip pressure with my support hand to get to the point where I have that clean presentation probably 90-95% of the time now. And then I had to go back and work through it again for right hand only, and then again for left hand only. For something "natural", it sure takes a lot of work!

We're issued Sigs at work, and I also own quite a few of my own, so that was the natural common denominator when it came to selecting a platform to practice and develop. I'm confident I could have done the same with a Glock if I had chosen those instead...it's just a matter of putting in the work to develop your technique around the gun.

As it stands now, if I apply my standard draw and presentation to a Glock, the entire front sight post ends up extending above the rear sight. I can accommodate for it and correct it, but if I use the same grip technique that I've hammered into my brain with thousands of reps on a Sig, I consistently push it high.

All the interchangeable backstraps and grip modules available on the market these days are making it less and less of an issue. You can set most modern polymer guns up to fit your hand to at least some extent...the trick is finding the right combination of parts to fit without spending a fortune in the process and overflowing that used parts and holsters box in the closet.

 

[cedartop]

Experience mattes too...I grew up shooting SA revolvers and, the old-school plow-share grip angle, along with the muscle-memory engrained in my neural pathways, the Glock grip angle is much better suited for a 'natural' point-n-shoot grip angle for me!

Interesting. It must have something to do with shape too as I was under the impression those type of revolvers have an 18 degree grip angle. Same as a 1911 and considerably different than the 22 degrees of a Glock.

 

[Route 45]

If the 1911 weren't such a poor design, there would be a whole industry devoted to fixing those flaws.

When it comes to grip angle and shootability, out of all the available pistols on the market today, Glock seems to be the only manufacturer that got it right.

Perspective is everything.

Nobody in the history of everything ever complained about the grip angle of the 1911. We’re not talking about aftermarket parts, we’re talking about the foundation of the platform. Try to keep up.

 

[Bassat]

I've reached the conclusion that "natural pointability" is kind of a lie. It's a learned and practiced skill.

...

As it stands now, if I apply my standard draw and presentation to a Glock, the entire front sight post ends up extending above the rear sight. I can accommodate for it and correct it, but if I use the same grip technique that I've hammered into my brain with thousands of reps on a Sig, I consistently push it high.

...

OK, maybe you've got me on this one. The first time I pointed a G21, the front sight WAS way high. Applying a firm grip, where my hands work together to PULL THE FRONT SIGHT DOWN into position, affords EXTREMELY good control and recoil management FOR ME. I can put more rounds on target faster with the G21 than any other gun I own, which admittedly is a small list (P32, Off Duty, 442, CM9, 686+), or the guns I've recently sold (P365 & P365XL).

Oops! I forgot about the mouse-fart recoiling .22LR BuckMark. But that is a range gun ONLY. I've removed the magazine safety, and have never once activated the manual thumb safety. Of course, I'd never carry such a gun.

 

[Bassat]

Nobody in the history of everything ever complained about the grip angle of the 1911. We’re not talking about aftermarket parts, we’re talking about the foundation of the platform. Try to keep up.

They don't call me TomTard for nothing!

 

[Amishman44]

Interesting. It must have something to do with shape too as I was under the impression those type of revolvers have an 18 degree grip angle. Same as a 1911 and considerably different than the 22 degrees of a Glock.

Actually, there have been several pistol designs with a 22-degree angled grip, including the German Luger pistol, the Steyr M series, the H&K P7, and I'm guessing that Mr. Gaston Glock simply stuck with a more predominant European style grip angle with the original design.
Mr. Glock probably had no idea the influence and impact his original polymer pistol design (copying the Stryker fired design) in the world when he was originally designing it to compete for the Austrian Army sidearm!

 

[DadSmith]

I've reached the conclusion that "natural pointability" is kind of a lie. It's a learned and practiced skill.

When I started shooting with handgun optics, I started spending a lot of time working on consistent presentation so I didn't have to "find the dot" when the gun came up. I quickly learned that NOTHING pointed naturally for me (even though I had a few platforms that I'd always believed had...I just hadn't recognize the problems when shooting irons). I had to spend a lot of time refining my hand position and grip pressure with my support hand to get to the point where I have that clean presentation probably 90-95% of the time now. And then I had to go back and work through it again for right hand only, and then again for left hand only. For something "natural", it sure takes a lot of work!

We're issued Sigs at work, and I also own quite a few of my own, so that was the natural common denominator when it came to selecting a platform to practice and develop. I'm confident I could have done the same with a Glock if I had chosen those instead...it's just a matter of putting in the work to develop your technique around the gun.

As it stands now, if I apply my standard draw and presentation to a Glock, the entire front sight post ends up extending above the rear sight. I can accommodate for it and correct it, but if I use the same grip technique that I've hammered into my brain with thousands of reps on a Sig, I consistently push it high.

All the interchangeable backstraps and grip modules available on the market these days are making it less and less of an issue. You can set most modern polymer guns up to fit your hand to at least some extent...the trick is finding the right combination of parts to fit without spending a fortune in the process and overflowing that used parts and holsters box in the closet.

19 degrees is considered natural. How a normal healthy person's wrist is when relaxed.
So 1911s 18 degrees would feel more natural than Glocks 22 degrees.

I learned over time how to shoot both angles.
That said I prefer something closer to natural angle of my wrist because it feels more comfortable to me. Now if you have a messed up wrist, or some other problems a different angle may feel better to you, or a wrist that rests in a abnormal angle. Not everyone is created the same.

 

[Route 45]

Now if you have a messed up wrist, or some other problems a different angle may feel better to you, or a wrist that rests in a abnormal angle. Not everyone is created the same.

 

[Creedmoor]

Actually, there have been several pistol designs with a 22-degree angled grip, including the German Luger pistol, the Steyr M series, the H&K P7, and I'm guessing that Mr. Gaston Glock simply stuck with a more predominant European style grip angle with the original design.
Mr. Glock probably had no idea the influence and impact his original polymer pistol design (copying the Stryker fired design) in the world when he was originally designing it to compete for the Austrian Army sidearm!

I believe he used Rugers thought, with the popular MK 22 lr pistol series.
That angle was the reason they came out with the 22-45 series.