Millitary rifle in a hunting caliber.

[BigMoose]

You know Indiana may be in a unique circumstance. And it gives me an idea for a tactical rifle.

The calibers that THE REST OF THE KNOWN WORLD hunt deer and other large game don't sell for crap in this state. Doesn't surprise me. Just what ARE you going to shoot with a hollow point/soft point in these calibers in this state? And even in this extreme panic, you can find piles of .243, 30-06, 7mm-08, 260, 270 etc etc sitting on any wall mart, gander mountain, or meiers and no one touches it for anything. Most I looked at had some serious dust on them.

That got me to thinking.. what about a tactical gun in these calibers with 20 round magazines?

30-06 used to be a military caliber, but the Garand only holds eight rounds and can be finicky about the pressures some of these loads develop, so it's out. The M1918 BAR has an adjustable gas system, but that honker is 20 pounds and expensive as hell, even in M1918A3 semi auto form. So perhaps 30-06 is out.

Now looking at these carts, I remember many of them are based off the 308/7.62x51 cart. 243win and 358win being the first. Then rem brought out the 7mm-08 and 260. All of these are necked down (or in the case of 358 necked up)

.358 Win, I am going to throw out of consideration. Overkill. And recoil overload for tactical applications.

That leaves 7mm-08, 260, and 243. A quick search finds that both AR-10s and M14(M1A) rifles and barrels have been made in each of the three calibers (and 358). All of the cartridges would be somewhere in between 308 and 223 in recoil, and an intermediate cartridge is what everyone has been after for anyway.

Mag wise they use the same 308 mags.

The downside to this is that you would be shooting expensive hollow points all the time as FMJs in these calibers can be near unobtainium. But perhaps it beats having nothing to shoot at all.

And with the AR-10 it would be easy to do a barrel swap once the panicking stops. The M14/M1A requiring a smith who is an expert in those rifles to swap barrels.

So..... AR-10 in 7mm-08, 260, or 243?

Thoughts or ideas?

 

[TiminMishawaka]

Thoughts or ideas?

That's why I'm getting a Garand now and waiting for sanity to return before I think about another AR.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The calibers that THE REST OF THE KNOWN WORLD hunt deer and other large game don't sell for crap in this state. Doesn't surprise me.

It surprises me. Is this the experience of our INGO gun dealers?

You can use those calibers here, even for deer (with predation), so I am uncertain why this would be the case.

So perhaps 30-06 is out.

Why not a bolt action weapon? Lots of military surplus choices.

Lots of self-loading .30-'06 choices to other than what you listed.

Why are you shooting hollow points instead of soft points?

Thoughts or ideas?

I'd get a solid .308 platform (bolt or self-loading) and that way you do not have to jack with the gun.

There are AR platforms in the calibers you list. Ensure that you have the dough to buy one that will run that way you will not be out more time and money.

You are going to post photos, right?

 

[BigMoose]

Now the LGS's got wise and I think they don't stock much of it to begin with because of the 1.8inch laws for deer.

But places like Wall Mart, Gander Mountain, and Meiers have boxes and boxes of big game hunting cartridges in these calibers and others that no one even looks twice at. I guess they stock for national demand not realizing Indiana has the 1.8inch cart deer law.

Gander Mountains big game caliber shelf was fully stocked and no one seemed interested in any of it.

I pulled one down to look at, at one Wall Mart and there was a healthy bunch of dust on it. Most of it is Core Lokt or Super X.

I was actually thinking of the M14 platform in one of those calibers, and then stripping the gun apart for a build in 7.62x51 once the panic subsides.

 

[lww]

You can use those calibers here, even for deer (with predation), so I am uncertain why this would be the case.

Kirk, can you elaborate on this? I thought that rifle calibers had to be .357 or larger.

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/: "Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons."

 

[BigMoose]

Kirk, can you elaborate on this? I thought that rifle calibers had to be .357 or larger.

http://www.eregulations.com/indiana/hunting/deer-regulations/: "Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons."

LWW your right on, and that is why at the big box stores that 243,358,260, 7mm-08 and others pile up. LGS stores know not to stock much in those calibers, the big box stores that stock nationally stock them in Indiana.

So why not leverage that and redo an AR-10 or M14 platform for those calibers. Then BBL swap when normalcy returns.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Kirk, can you elaborate on this? I thought that rifle calibers had to be .357 or larger.

For deer, but there is hunting beyond deer (of course predation changes this). Maybe not for some, but I promise there is.

I don't know the sales figures, but would be interested in hearing from some gun shop owners.

Just expressing surprise at this.

So why not leverage that and redo an AR-10 or M14 platform for those calibers. Then BBL swap when normalcy returns.

By no means am I a gunsmith (Kirk proof testing is just letting Kirk touch your gun and see if it breaks).

However, it seems to me that if you want a switchbarrel platform then perhaps a single shot or bolt action platform would be both more stout (have fewer headspacing issues, etc.) and be simplier to manipulate than a self-loading platform.

Many makers make such platfroms. Seems like a lot of time and effort to me, but that's my untekichul, unejamakated stab at the problem.

 

[BigMoose]

I forgot about 338 federal. It's based off the 308 as well.

There has got to a reason that in this crazed panic, that places have dusty boxes of 243,260,7mm-08,338 federal, 30-06, and 358. I never ever see a lot of those calibers in the LGS (outside of 30-06), only in Wall mart, Meiers, and Gander Mountain. In fact the gander mountain big game rifle shelf was fully stocked with the exception of 308, while the handgun and smaller bore rifle shelf was NEAR BARE.

From what I have seen, M14 and AR10 barrels are easily available in 243,260,7mm-08,338 federal, and 358. Why not use that barrel now, and sell it off when the panic ends. On the AR-10 it's an easy option, but on the M14 it's a send off to an experienced builder operation. But if it keeps me firing an M14. I am all for it.

 

[45fan]

Why build it, only to sell off when the market comes back to normal? Put it back in the safe, and just build another upper. The market will fluctuate again, it always does, and the next time, you are set with a common, but not often hoarded caliber to switch out to.

 

[roadrunner681]

i wish i had a 270 or a 30-30 ive seen more of that then anything lately.

 

[red_zr24x4]

You know Indiana may be in a unique circumstance. And it gives me an idea for a tactical rifle.

The calibers that THE REST OF THE KNOWN WORLD hunt deer and other large game don't sell for crap in this state. Doesn't surprise me. Just what ARE you going to shoot with a hollow point/soft point in these calibers in this state? And even in this extreme panic, you can find piles of .243, 30-06, 7mm-08, 260, 270 etc etc sitting on any wall mart, gander mountain, or meiers and no one touches it for anything. Most I looked at had some serious dust on them.

That got me to thinking.. what about a tactical gun in these calibers with 20 round magazines?
30-06 used to be a military caliber, but the Garand only holds eight rounds and can be finicky about the pressures some of these loads develop, so it's out. The M1918 BAR has an adjustable gas system, but that honker is 20 pounds and expensive as hell, even in M1918A3 semi auto form. So perhaps 30-06 is out.

Now looking at these carts, I remember many of them are based off the 308/7.62x51 cart. 243win and 358win being the first. Then rem brought out the 7mm-08 and 260. All of these are necked down (or in the case of 358 necked up)

.358 Win, I am going to throw out of consideration. Overkill. And recoil overload for tactical applications.

That leaves 7mm-08, 260, and 243. A quick search finds that both AR-10s and M14(M1A) rifles and barrels have been made in each of the three calibers (and 358). All of the cartridges would be somewhere in between 308 and 223 in recoil, and an intermediate cartridge is what everyone has been after for anyway.

Mag wise they use the same 308 mags.

The downside to this is that you would be shooting expensive hollow points all the time as FMJs in these calibers can be near unobtainium. But perhaps it beats having nothing to shoot at all.

And with the AR-10 it would be easy to do a barrel swap once the panicking stops. The M14/M1A requiring a smith who is an expert in those rifles to swap barrels.

So..... AR-10 in 7mm-08, 260, or 243?

Thoughts or ideas?

So you buy an adjustable gas plug and shoot any 30-06 you want
Anything you encounter in IN. 8 shots should be plenty

 

[87iroc]

I bought a gas plug for garandgear.com and installed it in 5 minutes so I can shoot commercial from my M1...Haven't used it yet...

The adjustable ones you have to resite the gun I'm told. The garandgear one you don't.

 

[Hookeye]

The reason you see factory .243 on store shelves is because some of us load our own and have for decades.

Have shot 70 gr Nosler BT's in 5 different Remingtons and they liked 'em.

 

[Hookeye]

Isn't Meijer a Michigan based company?
That might explain why their stores carry the likes of 200gr WW .35 Rem.

BTW, quite a few Indiana folks hunt deer out of state.

Some do the nuisance stuff here (no cartridge case size limit) before the regular hunting seasons.

 

[llamant]

"Isn't Meijer a Michigan based company?
That might explain why their stores carry the likes of 200gr WW .35 Rem.

BTW, quite a few Indiana folks hunt deer out of state.

Some do the nuisance stuff here (no cartridge case size limit) before the regular hunting seasons." - Hookeye


Also, .35 Rem for Indiana deer using a Contender, for example.

 

[avboiler11]

One day, the bowhunt mafia will loose a little of their influence with DNR policy and Indiana citizens will be able to hunt deer with modern centerfire rifles...just like a majority of Americans can.

And when that day comes, there will be no rivers of blood from innocent people hit by dumbass 'hunters' blasting away at game...

 

[bstewrat3]

The biggest reason for all of the hunting calibers being stocked in the big box stores is for the longest of all hunting seasons, paper season. Most areas have no cartridge restrictions on the hunting of paper and as far as I've heard there are no bag limits.

 

[jmil]

I had tactical pistol grip but stock for my rem 740 30 06 an aftermarket 15 round mag looked great but I took it off and put a monte carlo stock back on it jus for a change and let a friend talk ne out of it

 

[BigMoose]

I was able to find M1A/M14 barrels in 243,260,7mm-08,338, and 358 but I have decided to shelve this project now as I feel things may begin to thaw before I could get the project done.

 

[AtTheMurph]

One day, the bowhunt mafia will loose a little of their influence with DNR policy and Indiana citizens will be able to hunt deer with modern centerfire rifles...just like a majority of Americans can.

And when that day comes, there will be no rivers of blood from innocent people hit by dumbass 'hunters' blasting away at game...

I don't really think it's the bow hunters as much as the mistaken belief that rifles are far more dangerous than slug shotgun hunters.

In Wisconsin the state hunting rules have always assumed that in the more populous areas that slugs were the safer route so in most of the southern and eastern part of the state it was shotgun only.

After reviewing actual research (I believe done in PA) they found that the number of people shot had no correlation to types of firearms used. So they have eased the restrictions and places that for decades were shotgun only because of fear and ignorance.