Message Received from Dean of Students at IUPUI

[Destro]

so is IUPUI's policy regarding firearms at the sole decision of this dean?

 

[LarryC]

Could someone please help me understand how it is not illegal to carry, let's say a concealed handgun, on a college campus in this state? I referenced my little Indiana Criminal Code book, and I.C. 35-47-9-2 says "any person who possess a firearm: 1- In or on school property; 2- In or on property that is being used by a school for a school function, or; 3- On a school bus; commits a Class D felony"

So what am I missing? Thanks.

As I understand the definition of "School" in Indiana law - (it is fairly vague so I would be glad if someone corrects me) includes Kindergarten, Elementary and High schools subject to federal assistance. This does include Charter schools, but does not include adult trade schools, colleges or Universities.

 

[the1kidd03]

so is IUPUI's policy regarding firearms at the sole decision of this dean?

Board of Trustees to the university I would imagine.

 

[Destro]

Board of Trustees to the university I would imagine.

then I don't understand the purpose of 5 pages of nasty attacks on this dean for sending out a memo so his sheeple staff don't panic and dial 911. If he can't change the policy then nothing he writes will make anyone happy.

 

[the1kidd03]

then I don't understand the purpose of 5 pages of nasty attacks on this dean for sending out a memo so his sheeple staff don't panic and dial 911. If he can't change the policy then nothing he writes will make anyone happy.

His role as it relates to groups like our is to make sure everything is civil. He's not so concerned with our group, but those who oppose our views starting trouble with one of our members or otherwise trying to impersonate us and do something stupid. He wants people to know to contact them if something does occur so they can take care of it appropriately and not "send in the SWAT team" so to speak.

 

[miguel]

Where's the best place to park and join this event? I mean, is it a "march" or is it just a onesey-twosey, wear it as you go about your business type event?

 

[led4thehed2]

As I understand the definition of "School" in Indiana law - (it is fairly vague so I would be glad if someone corrects me) includes Kindergarten, Elementary and High schools subject to federal assistance. This does include Charter schools, but does not include adult trade schools, colleges or Universities.

I believe you're right. I first had to find the definition of "School property" in I.C. and then find the definition of "School Corporation" in I.C. to understand that. I hadn't revisted I.C. in years and figured "school property" was school property was school property. Obviously not. I suppose I shouldn't think law is simple or straight forward, but I guess that's just how I see things.

 

[the1kidd03]

Where's the best place to park and join this event? I mean, is it a "march" or is it just a onesey-twosey, wear it as you go about your business type event?

Wear is as you go about your business. Depending on your level of involvement with SCCC and dedication to the cause, there were shirts that were available and they can pass out informational flyers about the organization. I plan on making a detailed post to put on here, just haven't had time to do it.

 

[GtEcH25]

Carrying on campuses is not illegal at all, it is against the schools policy. IU Bloomington's policy is the same. If a person is located that is not affiliated with the university somehow and they have no need to be there will have be ran checked for a license to carry and then, depending on the time of day, maybe advised of trespass and asked to leave. If there are calls regarding a person just walking around with a holstered weapon the swat team will not convene, the school will not be on lockdown and the state police will not be guarding doors with shotguns. The incident at IUPUI involved a female subject saw a man with a "long gun" walking around a parking lot.

 

[the1kidd03]

Carrying on campuses is not illegal at all, it is against police. IU Bloomington's policy is the same. If a person is located that is not affiliated with the university somehow and they have no need to be there will have be ran checked for a license to carry and then, depending on the time of day, maybe advised of trespass and asked to leave. If there are calls regarding a person just walking around with a holstered weapon the swat team will not convene, the school will not be on lockdown and the state police will not be guarding doors with shotguns. The incident at IUPUI involved a female subject saw a man with a "long gun" walking around a parking lot.

Not from information I've gotten.

But at this point I'm over that incident other than identifying where their reaction to a perceived "threat" failed horribly. Beyond that, I don't care too much. The policy won't get changed from that one incident, but it is another "round in the magazine" so to speak.

 

[GtEcH25]

Honestly, I read that in the paper. I haven't talked to any of the guys up there so id say don't quote me but unfortunately the policy wont change. I am all for carry on campus with some general guidelines. The SCCC people were down here last week and I stopped and chatted with them for a little bit. Very nice and respectful kids.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Honestly, I read that in the paper. I haven't talked to any of the guys up there so id say don't quote me but unfortunately the policy wont change. I am all for carry on campus with some general guidelines. The SCCC people were down here last week and I stopped and chatted with them for a little bit. Very nice and respectful kids.

What kind of carry restrictions would be ok?

 

[the1kidd03]

Honestly, I read that in the paper. I haven't talked to any of the guys up there so id say don't quote me but unfortunately the policy wont change. I am all for carry on campus with some general guidelines. The SCCC people were down here last week and I stopped and chatted with them for a little bit. Very nice and respectful kids.

Yeah, they had to hold their protest on a different week.

That is the goal. The group isn't advocating that EVERYONE should carry like the anti-gunners think that every gun owner is suggesting these days. Simply that those who already do should be allowed to on campus since they have met the States legal requirements and been found fit to carry a defensive sidearm.

I know a lot of our group work in security or prior military.

 

[GtEcH25]

What kind of carry restrictions would be ok?

This is entirely my opinion and in no way is representative of the campus or PD. But being registered with the PD for starters. Also, I like the idea of going through just a quick firearms safety course and concealed carry course, nothing unreasonable.

 

[GtEcH25]

Yeah, they had to hold their protest on a different week.

That is the goal. The group isn't advocating that EVERYONE should carry like the anti-gunners think that every gun owner is suggesting these days. Simply that those who already do should be allowed to on campus since they have met the States legal requirements and been found fit to carry a defensive sidearm.

I know a lot of our group work in security or prior military.

I wouldn't even call it a protest, they were just handing out brochures. But I agree with your argument.

 

[the1kidd03]

I wouldn't even call it a protest, they were just handing out brochures. But I agree with your argument.

That's basically all ours is as well. Next year I plan to have more members and it will be a much more involved event and varied other things going on.

 

[Dustzilla]

I work at IUPUI and this letter pissed me off. I hate not being able to carry on campus for fear of losing my job.
I spoke with a coworker who knows I carry outside of work and told him I was thinking about wearing an empty holster to support the students. He pointed out how vindictive certain individuals can be in this environment and that they might find a way to have me fired later on a manufactured unrelated issue. He is an interesting man because he respects me and my right to carry. However, he fears the idea of him or anyone like him carrying. I respect his self evaluation on his "fitness" for carry but I can't successfully convince him that he might be transfering his self evaluation to others who might choose to carry. He did offer to be a witness to any disciplinary meetings that might occur if I decided to wear an empty holster and to back me up.

 

[the1kidd03]

This is entirely my opinion and in no way is representative of the campus or PD. But being registered with the PD for starters. Also, I like the idea of going through just a quick firearms safety course and concealed carry course, nothing unreasonable.

I don't agree that campuses should be able to restrict, HOWEVER I can also understand their concerns with it. Therefore, I would not be opposed to the campus requiring proof of attending a class but I am whole heartedly opposed to any form of registration other than perhaps a simple change on their student ID to prove they have submitted the proof of the necessary course to carry there.

I don't really even like that, but it's the best compromise that could be made at the campus level really. It allows them to feel as though they are "mitigating risk" and it still allows students with a LTCH to carry. It's certainly better than having NOTHING.

 

[the1kidd03]

I work at IUPUI and this letter pissed me off. I hate not being able to carry on campus for fear of losing my job.
I spoke with a coworker who knows I carry outside of work and told him I was thinking about wearing an empty holster to support the students. He pointed out how vindictive certain individuals can be in this environment and that they might find a way to have me fired later on a manufactured unrelated issue. He is an interesting man because he respects me and my right to carry. However, he fears the idea of him or anyone like him carrying. I respect his self evaluation on his "fitness" for carry but I can't successfully convince him that he might be transfering his self evaluation to others who might choose to carry. He did offer to be a witness to any disciplinary meetings that might occur if I decided to wear an empty holster and to back me up.

You're not alone. I know of or know several staff members on campus and here of a great number more all the time. I know there is at least one employee planning to join us once she has received confirmation from her superior to be able to do so.

It's a symbolic statement protected by the Constitution. Unless there is a specific dress code or other regulation that restricts it in the workplace, I don't see how you would NOT win a case if they tried to punish you for expressing your beliefs. I know we have very large legal backing behind us from national organizations to specifically ensure they don't infringe on those rights of expression of the students. What, if any, protection they could offer to staff I have no idea.

 

[MetalMan]

A safe and secure environment is a fundamental prerequisite for fulfilling the University mission of teaching, research, and public service. The University is committed to maintaining a community that is free of violence. This obligation includes eliminating recognized hazards from campus communities that contribute to violence or serious harm. The decision to prohibit weapons (except in the hands of trained law enforcement personnel) on campus makes the IUPUI community a safer place.

Can he prove the highlighted statement? Having policies based on fallacious statements is at the core of most of the dissent.