Letter from Sen. Jim Tomes

[Kirk Freeman]

The Wookies in New Hampshire do it. No reason we could not!

I'm in! We can use my truck to haul garbage. How about the stretch of 25 between Delphi and Lafayette? It's needs attention bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olP_kwsEZ6w&feature=relmfu

 

[youngda9]

Great quote from that first lady at 1:38 !!!

Open carry: Anytime Anywhere, let them know you're out there.

 

[ATM]

The only way to immunize people to open carry is to let them see it as not unusual. I don't think an open carry event is unwise...

An individual OCing at the zoo should not be unusual. A large group OCing there would, in fact, be unusual.

Perhaps the wisest OC event to show support would be something like setting up a schedule of 1 open carrier a day willing to attend the zoo with their family or friends who are not all OCing... for the next 2 weeks.

Just my based on the fact that the local media seems very willing to put their own spin on whatever they "report" in that area.

 

[sbcman]

I thought politicians understood that the populace generally lives the laws that are passed.

Why labor so strongly for pro-2a legislation to then encourage the people to anti-2A action?

 

[Hoosierdood]

An individual OCing at the zoo should not be unusual. A large group OCing there would, in fact, be unusual.

Perhaps the wisest OC event to show support would be something like setting up a schedule of 1 open carrier a day willing to attend the zoo with their family or friends who are not all OCing... for the next 2 weeks.

Just my based on the fact that the local media seems very willing to put their own spin on whatever they "report" in that area.

^^^THIS is a very good suggestion.

 

[youngda9]

An individual OCing at the zoo should not be unusual. A large group OCing there would, in fact, be unusual.

Perhaps the wisest OC event to show support would be something like setting up a schedule of 1 open carrier a day willing to attend the zoo with their family or friends who are not all OCing... for the next 2 weeks.

Just my based on the fact that the local media seems very willing to put their own spin on whatever they "report" in that area.

If the Zoo and the police still believe they are correct in their actions on this issue...the results will be the same.

I would wait to see how the case is resolved. Going back to the scene of the incident is rubbing salt in the wound and will result in the same outcome if the police still believe they are in the right. Seeing more OC people surrounded by the police, while the ink on the front page of the local newspaper is still wet, will do nothing to further the cause. Further slanted Anti stories will run in the paper painting gun owners in a bad light for pressing this issue. The PERCEPTION of it will be bad...the people who don't live firearms and 2A laws will not see it the same way that we all do at this time.

I think the right thing to do is to chill for a bit and see how this plays out. Not keep pushing for something while the lawsuit is pending...even though we know what the outcome should be.

That's my $0.02

 

[Hoosierdood]

I thought politicians understood that the populace generally lives the laws that are passed.

Why labor so strongly for pro-2a legislation to then encourage the people to anti-2A action?

I don't think anyone is encouraging Anti-2A action. We need to focus on the end result of our actions. If you honestly believe that an OC event at the zoo will raise awareness towards gun owners, then by all means, have an OC event. My contention is that by the actions of one Mr. TF, awareness has already been made at the zoo. I say that as a good thing. My contention is that by staging an OC event at the zoo, it would be "overkill". I say that you SHOULD organize an OC event, but do it downtown, or at another park. Just do it somewhere that hasn't been the focus of the media for the last week. Have everyone grab their kids and go to a local park and let them play on the slides and swings. Go to a restaurant. SHOW THEM THAT OC IS NORMAL.

The zoo has already been done. Continuing by organizing an OC event there may actually cause more harm than good. As I said in another thread, it is like rubbing salt into a wound. Let TF and Guy continue the battle in court.

 

[Bunnykid68]

An individual OCing at the zoo should not be unusual. A large group OCing there would, in fact, be unusual.

Perhaps the wisest OC event to show support would be something like setting up a schedule of 1 open carrier a day willing to attend the zoo with their family or friends who are not all OCing... for the next 2 weeks.

Just my based on the fact that the local media seems very willing to put their own spin on whatever they "report" in that area.

I agree wit this. Get more open carriers out there doing normal stuff for a few months and then have an open carry event after the sheep have gotten used to seeing more individuals OC in their day to day lies.

Wouldn't try to retrain a dog one day would you?
Do you really think people as a whole learn as fast as dogs?

 

[Birds Away]

While I hope this is not true of Sen. Tomes I fear it is beginning to show.

Power is always dangerous. Power attracts the worst and corrupts the best.
~ Edward Abbey

and

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.
~ Lord Acton

I have no doubt that he is still very PRO-2A but perhaps not the the full level that he was before he became senator. As I'm sure he now knows/understand the "game" he must play in Indy to get what bills he wants passed. In time like all that go into politics he too being human will become "corrupt" (ie. lose his way, original goals, line of thinking, etc...) just comes as a shock that its coming so soon or we are beginning to see it so soon.

The "stress" of the last session was greater than I thought for him then. hum... Keep us posted BoR and let us know what happens at the meeting. Sadly it's too far away for many of us in NWI who are active on this issue.

The other "issue" we have in IN now is that we do not have a single "voice" that speaks for the IN gunowners on these type of "political" items. So we have a disconnect between the pro-2A politicans and the pro-2A active gun owners. As it shown in this case.

There is talk and organization of a OC at the zoo being done on here and probably the other 2 indiana gun forums and yet there is no coordination with those in Indy that write laws. No overall plan of action. Some might say the NRA but I don't see them around helping with this. Others might say the patriots (perhaps that might be the closest we have) but there are not everwhere yet either nor do I think that they are under/doing stuff with one main goal/focus.



So rigth now we have several regional groups all doing what they might think is best.

I think this is very unfair to the Senator. Being a realist is not being corrupt. Sometimes you have to understand the lay of the land and it appears that he does. While we all want our desires met 100% percent all the time it just doesn't work that way in real life. Our lobby can be a positive force if used prudently. Sometimes it's better to be subtle and effective rather than loud and proud and risk losing.

 

[goinggreyfast]

I had sent an email myself in response to Mr. Tomes, but it came back saying his "email inbox was full" and could not accept anything at this time. Go figure...

In my email, I suggested that if he felt this strongly about what was being planned or said here in public forum, then he should create an account and post up those feelings.

I also suggested that he and his colleagues do more to make sure LE was informed as to gun law and rights to open carry, giving reference to the esteemed Officer Maxey from South Bend.

My point to him was that if the LEO's who responded to the call at Mesker Park SUPPORTED Ben, rather than called him out, by informing those frightened and less educated that Ben was neither a threat nor breaking the law, that things might not have came to this. When those LEO's called Ben out, they did more damage to the efforts of Tomes and his colleagues who claim to support 2A than anything Ben did by standing up for his rights.

 

[T.Lex]

I think there is room for the pro-2A politicians, and those who are dedicated CC, to borrow a phrase from the 1A debates.

"I disagree with those that open carry. But, I will defend to the death their right to do so."

Frankly, I think some that supported SB292 are having a bit of buyer's remorse. They opened up this Pandora's box...

 

[IndyGunSafety]

The only way to immunize people to open carry is to let them see it as not unusual. I don't think an open carry event is unwise. Showing no support for the person originally harassed is unwise. 30 years ago you would never see the word "gay" in a mainstream newspaper, let alone "queer." Now we have gay marriages, gays openly in the military, and TV shows with titles like "Queer Eye..." How did that change come about? By constant "in your face" action by groups like "Queer Nation." Don't mistake, I don't necessarily agree with their objective, but you can't deny their effectiveness. They took issues that a generation ago 80% of the population found disgusting and made them mainstream acceptable. Hiding has never served gun owners or any movement well. There has been too much of it, and is part of the reason we're not farther along in the Second Amendment cause than we are. I don't think peaceful "we're here" type demonstrations ill-serve our cause.

I agree 100%! I try to "gently" educate as I can. I do open carry quite often. An open carry event has the possibility of going either way. What I mean by that is if everyone acts like a responsible gun owner the event can go a long way toward educating the public. But let JUST ONE little thing happen and the press will be all over it. That makes this type of event a calculated risk for some of us. Some are "Hell yes!" while others are "Hell no!". To me the risk (because of grossly biased media) is great, so while I support open carry events, I cringe a little. Here's why:

Just yesterday I ran into an OC'er in the grocery store while OCing myself. It was the first time in over 10 years that I had actually seen somebody OCing in public, that was not at an organized event! So as I passed him I smiled and said: "They are going to think we are ganging up on them." To which he scowled and said: "I don't care what they think, I can carry wherever I want!" I could see the chip on his shoulder was the size of a Volkswagen bug, so I just passed him and said "Well it's nice to see others open carrying." I tried to leave it at that. But while going out the door (he was behind me) he said "I have an FFL, I can carry through the middle of an airport if I want." I stopped in my tracks and turned around and said "Oh really?!" The man responded: "Yep! I've had an FFL for 23 years and I can carry wherever I want." I should have left it alone, but quizzed further: "So you're saying you can carry though an airport BEYOND the metal detectors in the SECURE AREA because you have a license to sell guns?" He responded "Yep, and nobody can say a thing about it because I have an FFL." Again I should have walked away but couldn't resist and stated: "Well I have an FFL too and own a gun shop. I'm also a captain for an airline, and I don't think you can do that." To which he said "You better go back and check your paperwork!" I was laughing so hard at this point I could not continue the conversation and walked away.

What a moron.

My point being, all we have to do is get an asshat mouthpiece like this spouting off at an open carry event and it will be all over the news undoing ANY and ALL good that could have come from an open carry event. That's why I cringe. There are those that have huge chips on their shoulder and will spout off to anyone who will listen in an attempt to seem significant.

To me the risk is great. While there is wisdom in Sen. Tomes words, I do not advocate sitting back and doing nothing. But we must proceed with caution.

 

[snowrs]

If your upset come down to Evansville on Saturday and discuss it with Jim, that way he and others like me will hear your side and you can hear us.


Scutter: Actually the sky is every color but blue, it absorbs all the other colors and reflects blue.

 

[japartridge]

An individual OCing at the zoo should not be unusual. A large group OCing there would, in fact, be unusual.

Perhaps the wisest OC event to show support would be something like setting up a schedule of 1 open carrier a day willing to attend the zoo with their family or friends who are not all OCing... for the next 2 weeks.

Just my based on the fact that the local media seems very willing to put their own spin on whatever they "report" in that area.

This is a brilliant idea! I think we should all do this in various parts of the state... I OC about 50% of the time here in Bloomington, and to be honest I get almost no feedback at all...seems that no one really notices

 

[Roadie]

This quote from Mr Tomes bugs me:

But now, here we have folks who are planning on going to our local zoo and city parks to stage an "open carry party." This is no game. Do they have any idea of how quickly they can unravel hard work, late nights and early mornings, I mean early, in getting SB 292 passed? Where were they when we needed them to call and come to our meetings? They were too busy, they had parties to go to, movies to see, ball games to attend and dinner dates.

If I sound a little irritated, that's not so. I'm a lot irritated. To go out and see how much public support you can eradicate with some school yard prank does not set well with me and all the other folks who applied themselves.

He assumes that OCers didnt support him and his Bills because they were too lazy/busy to do so?? Wow, way to make assumptions and slap your supporters in the face Mr. Tomes. Sorry, but that makes it sound like he is pro gun, only if people do it HIS way.

Will someone explain to me why is it that when any other "group"(gays, minorities, etc) stands up for their Rights en mass it is a good thing, a welcome thing, but when OCers stand up for gun rights its a "school yard prank"?

 

[IndyGunSafety]

This is a brilliant idea! I think we should all do this in various parts of the state... I OC about 50% of the time here in Bloomington, and to be honest I get almost no feedback at all...seems that no one really notices

Same for me here in Fishers.

 

[kylerudibaugh]

I fully plan to go to the wssc this sat nite and remind Jim that he needs to thicken his skin to his fellow dirtbags in Indy, and regrow some damn spine.
He sounds just like a lot of the rino's did leading up to the AWB bck in the 90's. E.G. I support guns just not those evil black rifles, government needs to ban those.

 

[GuyRelford]

I just had a 30-minute discussion with Senator Tomes. I won't put any words in his mouth, but he is 100% on our side on the issue of preserving and exercising our rights. He fought very hard for SB 292, and he is very sensitive to the forces at play in the Statehouse on gun rights issues.

With that in mind, he and I agree 100% that any "open carry event" at the zoo would be counter-productive to what we are trying to accomplish.

Guy

 

[Hoosierdood]

I fully plan to go to the wssc this sat nite and remind Jim that he needs to thicken his skin to his fellow dirtbags in Indy, and regrow some damn spine.
He sounds just like a lot of the rino's did leading up to the AWB bck in the 90's. E.G. I support guns just not those evil black rifles, government needs to ban those.

I really think we need to look at the big picture here. Is Mr. Tomes our enemy? I think we need to put his words into context. rather than have a knee-jerk reaction to one phrase or another, let's just step back for 5 minutes and actually consider what is being said.

Roadie - I know you are a stand up guy, and have been fighting the good fight on the news websites. I also know you are a sensible guy. However, I think you are taking his comments out of context in this instance.

kylerudibaugh - Please don't go to the meeting with a chip on your shoulder. I think Jim has plenty of spine. He has had more spine than many in that he started the 2nd Ammendment Patriots when others just sat around complaining. If you want clarification from Jim, ask him some questions. But keep an open mind, because his answers might not be what you have already decided they would be.

I don't think Jim is talking about Ben's OC at the zoo. Jim is talking about taking this thing too far, to the point where we cause more harm than good. Jim has been a trooper, putting in countless hours toward our cause. He even went a step further and ran for an elected office so that he could do even more. I think from Jim's perspective, he has worked long and hard to gain more freedom. And his fear is that the actions of a few could completely ruin what he has worked so hard for.

What if you had worked for years to restore a classic car. You busted your knuckles, poured your sweat and money into this car. It meant more to you than just another vehicle. It was your baby. You finally finish it and it looks so good, you have to take it out on the road. You get a couple miles down the road, and out of nowhere, someone T-bones you out of the blue. How would you feel?

I don't think Jim is accusing gun owners of being lazy, he is saying that he has been working when few others were. he has put so much time and effort into this, that he would hate to see it ruined.

Civil rights for blacks didn't happen over night. Recognition of gays did not happen in one year. If you care about something, you are in it for the long haul. We need to stay consistent, but at the same time do everything we can to not tear down what others have worked so hard for.

 

[henktermaat]

Yesterday I had a senator and good friend who supported me in SB 292 even though he was getting worked over in his district for it asked me if we shouldn't pass a bill prohibiting open carry. He told me he would vote for one if it was offered. This is one of our guys. What do you think the ones who were against us are thinking???

Scary stuff...