LEO disarm during traffic stop

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  • upchurch67

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    I've heard different opinions from different officers. My opinion is that the wording of the Terry decision states "armed and dangerous." "Armed" and "dangerous." In my mind, those are two different things in the Court's view or they wouldn't have added that little "and." I don't disarm on a traffic stop unless I have some reason to believe you're dangerous. I've had other officers tell me differently though, so maybe I'm the one who is misinformed.

    I think you are on the right track. In the Terry decision, the officer had reasonable suspicion to believe that the three men were about to commit a violent crime. So, it seems to me that before a search can be undertaken in the name of officer safety, the officer must establish that the person being searched would pose a risk to the officer if left armed.

    I have been disarmed once during a traffic stop. The officer was very polite. So, was I. He did his thing and I went on my way. My logic at the time was that I may get a break if he sees that I am being honest, courteous and compliant with reasonable requests or questions. Unfortunately, I didn't get a break. 81 in a 65. Maybe I'll think differently next time.

    I was carrying a Kimber in a Milt Sparks SS. The officer asked me to unholster with my left hand, drop the mag, rack slide, etc. It seems to me that this is asking for all sorts of trouble.

    The safest place for that pistol for all involved is in my holster. The officer had no idea about my gunhandling skills. The manipulation of the handgun that he requested of me was very strange and awkward. (I know that I should practice these manipulations in case strong hand is disabled). The chances of an accidental discharge increase dramatically.

    From a practical sense, it seems like the least risk for all involved is to leave the gun in the holster during this type of encounter.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited:

    Rookie

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    I think you are on the right track. In the Terry decision, the officer had reasonable suspicion to believe that the three men were about to commit a violent crime. So, it seems to me that before a search can be undertaken in the name of officer safety, the officer must establish that the person being searched would pose a risk to the officer if left armed.

    I have been disarmed once during a traffic stop. The officer was very polite. So, was I. He did his thing and I went on my way. My logic at the time was that I may get a break if he sees that I am being honest, courteous and compliant with reasonable requests or questions. Unfortunately, I didn't get a break. 81 in a 65. Maybe I'll think differently next time.

    I was carrying a Kimber in a Milt Sparks SS. The officer asked me to unholster with my left hand, drop the mag, rack slide, etc. It seems to me that this is asking for all sorts of trouble.

    The safest place for that pistol for all involved is in my holster. The officer had no idea about my gunhandling skills. The manipulation of the handgun that he requested of me was very strange and awkward. (I know that I should practice these manipulations in case strong hand is disabled). The chances of an accidental discharge increase dramatically.

    From a practical sense, it seems like the least risk for all involved is to leave the gun in the holster during this type of encounter.

    Thoughts?

    I would have politely informed the officer that I would not comply with his request. If you were to have an accidental discharge, do you think the officer would say, "gee you were doing what I asked, no big deal"?
     

    Rookie

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    Another reason, I will not give up my fourth amendment rights for any reason. If the officer feels he has a good reason to disarm me, he doesn't need my permission, does he?
     

    upchurch67

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    Guess I will scrape my INGO sticker off my truck, give the LEO's one less reason to even ask me if I have a firearm.

    It's funny you mention that. In the days before I carried religiously, I had a State Trooper ask me if I had any weapons during traffic stop. (Not the incident mentioned above. I have a heavy foot.) I responded, "No". And she said that she only asked me because of the NRA sticker in my back window.

    As far as politely declining an officers request, I would really like to hear from anyone who has tried that particular tactic. I am curious of the result.
     

    upchurch67

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    "I have no illegal items in the car officer." I am not required to answer questions pertaining to any subject outside of the traffic violation that I've been pulled over for...nothing good can come of it and I won't do it.

    In principal, I agree. But in practice, I can see the officer escalating polite non compliance to a disorderly conduct charge.

    I would like to hear from someone who has actually tried the proposed tactic to understand how it actually worked out.

    "...in an effort to alleviate the effects of the, anyone?***anyone?..."
     

    yotewacker

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    I have seen several times where a stash of drugs are kept in the magazine in an auto pistol. Several officers ask for the gun just to see if any drugs are there.
     

    Mr. Habib

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    In principal, I agree. But in practice, I can see the officer escalating polite non compliance to a disorderly conduct charge.

    I would like to hear from someone who has actually tried the proposed tactic to understand how it actually worked out.

    "...in an effort to alleviate the effects of the, anyone?***anyone?..."
    I can see the officer making a sudden career change to Walmart shopping cart herder if he tried that.
     

    BillD

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    I have seen several times where a stash of drugs are kept in the magazine in an auto pistol. Several officers ask for the gun just to see if any drugs are there.

    What? Why would anyone hide drugs in a gun???

    The gun is going to be the first thing looked at, in a bust or a traffic stop.
     
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