Legal short barrel .410

[1022]

What makes all of the (Judge like) .410 revolvers legal and short barrel pistol grip pumps illegal?

 

[Bill of Rights]

In part, the fact that it has no shoulder stock and never did. (The "never did" part is important.) Another part is that the Judge has a rifled barrel, but primarily, it's not a firearm "designed to be fired from the shoulder", which is what defines it as a "shotgun". A similar firearm is the Serbu Super Shorty or the KEG, both of which use a virgin receiver or one that left the factory with a pistol grip.

Super Shorty
KEG12 [KEG12] - $675.00 : Safety Harbor Firearms, Inc.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[jbombelli]

There's more to it than that, too. Taurus tried coming out with a 28 gauge revolver called the Raging Judge. BATFE inspected it at Shot Show 2011, and determined that it was either a destructive device, or a short-barreled shotgun. Taurus withdrew the gun prior to their decision being made as to which it was.

If I recall correctly.

 

[johntheplinker]

Another thing is the bore is less than .5", that is what got the 28 ga. in trouble. Short barreled shottys aren't illegal, you just need a tax stamp to own one. One of the advantages of using a 410 is that there is no tax stamp required for purchase, unlike a 28, 20, or 12 gauge.

 

[edporch]

What makes all of the (Judge like) .410 revolvers legal and short barrel pistol grip pumps illegal?

The rifled barrel is what makes it legal.
It would be illegal if it had a smooth bore.

Many years ago, my deceased uncle had a Harrington & Richardson "Handy Gun" that he originally bought used in the 1930's.

It was a single shot smooth bore .410 pistol.

It was passed down in the 1960's to another uncle who died in the late 1990's.

I only saw this gun once, when his son, my cousin (who died a few years later) showed it to me in 1998 when they were clearing stuff out of my uncle's house.
It was in excellent condition.

I told him then that it was illegal to own and he'd get a free vacation to "Club Fed" if they ever caught him with it.
He said he'd get rid of it, and that's the last I ever saw of it.

A real shame, because it was in excellent condition, and being a single shot .410, didn't seem like such a terrible weapon to be an NFA gun.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Another thing is the bore is less than .5", that is what got the 28 ga. in trouble. Short barreled shottys aren't illegal, you just need a tax stamp to own one. One of the advantages of using a 410 is that there is no tax stamp required for purchase, unlike a 28, 20, or 12 gauge.

Just a note: Short-barreled shotguns are legal by federal law, with tax stamp. They are not, however, legal for anyone but government and SOTs to own in Indiana.

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.

IC 35-47-5-4.1
Sawed-off shotgun
Sec. 4.1. (a) A person who:
(1) manufactures;
(2) causes to be manufactured;
(3) imports into Indiana;
(4) keeps for sale;
(5) offers or exposes for sale; or
(6) gives, lends, or possesses;
any sawed-off shotgun commits dealing in a sawed-off shotgun, a Class D felony.
(b) The presence of a weapon referred to in subsection (a) in a motor vehicle (as defined under IC 9-13-2-105(a)) except for school buses and a vehicle operated in the transportation of passengers by a common carrier (as defined in IC 8-2.1-17-4) creates an inference that the weapon is in the possession of the persons occupying the motor vehicle. However, the inference does not apply to all the persons occupying the motor vehicle if the weapon is found upon, or under the control of, one (1) of the occupants. In addition, the inference does not apply to a duly licensed driver of a motor vehicle for hire who finds the weapon in the licensed driver's motor vehicle in the proper pursuit of the licensed driver's trade.
(c) This section does not apply to a law enforcement officer who is acting in the course of the officer's official duties or to a person who manufactures or imports for sale or sells a sawed-off shotgun to a law enforcement agency.

Note as well that there is nothing in that definition to address caliber or gauge, so I don't think a .410 shotty is any more or less legal than a 12g, with or without tax stamps. JMHO.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[johntheplinker]

Just a note: Short-barreled shotguns are legal by federal law, with tax stamp. They are not, however, legal for anyone but government and SOTs to own in Indiana.


Note as well that there is nothing in that definition to address caliber or gauge, so I don't think a .410 shotty is any more or less legal than a 12g, with or without tax stamps. JMHO.

Blessings,
Bill

Just stating that in addition to the rifling, bore size had something to do with it being a non-tax stamp item. May not have anything in the IC about it, but IIRC 26 USC states something to the effect that a non-shotgun or antique (with a few other exemptions) with a bore larger than .5" is classified as a destructive device. The one Taurus thought about making in 28 ga. would have a bore size of .55 so even with rifling would be classified as a DD.

 

[loki.fish]

I've seen shotguns that don't have stocks but have the 18.5" barrels for sale at various places....what exactly are these classified as?

For example the Mossberg JIC models

 

[johntheplinker]

I've seen shotguns that don't have stocks but have the 18.5" barrels for sale at various places....what exactly are these classified as?

For example the Mossberg JIC models

As long as overall length is greater than 26", they're a shotgun.

 

[Newbomb92]

I've seen shotguns that don't have stocks but have the 18.5" barrels for sale at various places....what exactly are these classified as?

For example the Mossberg JIC models

A....shotgun.

 

[long coat]

I've seen shotguns that don't have stocks but have the 18.5" barrels for sale at various places....what exactly are these classified as?

For example the Mossberg JIC models

In this state a pistol, there is case law on it.

 

[VUPDblue]

A purpose-built handgun, like the Judge, with a smooth bore and with a bore diameter over .5" could not be a SBS by definition because it was never a "shotgun" by definition to begin with. It would more likely fall into the AOW category like the Serbu or KEG.

 

[loki.fish]

In this state a pistol, there is case law on it.

So can we legally own one? I've never been a shotgun fan, but having one couldn't hurt.

ETA: I mean we as in Indiana

 

[VUPDblue]

Yeah, you can own one all day long.

 

[long coat]

So can we legally own one? I've never been a shotgun fan, but having one couldn't hurt.

ETA: I mean we as in Indiana

18.5+ just goto your store and take it home.
The Super Shorty ia an AOW and take a stamp ($5 I think) and a 6 month waite.

 

[long coat]

So can you take a Judge long gun ( I can't think what they are called) and SBR it?

 

[3point5]

So can you take a Judge long gun ( I can't think what they are called) and SBR it?

You are talking about a circuit judge.

Thats is a great question...im not sure if it is a rifle or a shotgun...if I were a betting man, i would imagine that you could. With the stamp, and as long as you NEVER loaded a .410 shell into it.

 

[VUPDblue]

You are talking about a circuit judge.

Thats is a great question...im not sure if it is a rifle or a shotgun...if I were a betting man, i would imagine that you could. With the stamp, and as long as you NEVER loaded a .410 shell into it.

its designation has nothing to do with the type of shell it fires. if the barrel is rifled, it can be SBRd.

 

[3point5]

its designation has nothing to do with the type of shell it fires. if the barrel is rifled, it can be SBRd.

My 870 has a rifled barrel.

Im a noob when it comes to NFA laws...but I know i cant SBR/S my 870...or my NEF Pardner, even though they have rifled barrels, so what you are saying makes no sense to me.

 

[VUPDblue]

well then this is really gonna throw ya. the only thing keeping regular old shotguns out of NFA territory is the "sporting purposes" exception.