Law Enforcement and LTCH

[The Stig]

Silly questions...

Do LEOs need a LTCH for duty weapons?

Would they only need a LTCH if they carry firearms not issued to them by their departments? Or not necessary at all?

Are there off-duty considerations for LEOs when carrying? Or does being a LEO override any need for a LTCH in all circumstances?



(I am kind of embarrassed to ask... but just curious...)

 

[lrahm]

No, Badge or PD identification is required when off duty.

 

[lrahm]

If we take police actions off duty we are also restricted on the type of departmental "off duty" weapon we possess and are qualified with. We can cary others but frowned upon if we take police action.

 

[Bill of Rights]

If we take police actions off duty we are also restricted on the type of departmental "off duty" weapon we possess and are qualified with. We can cary others but frowned upon if we take police action.

That's a restriction by your department, as I understand it, not one codified in law, yes?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[The Stig]

If we take police actions off duty we are also restricted on the type of departmental "off duty" weapon we possess and are qualified with. We can cary others but frowned upon if we take police action.

Are the restrictions based upon caliber? Perceived effectiveness of firearm?

Again, just curious.

I appreciate your time.

 

[Gabriel]

If we take police actions off duty we are also restricted on the type of departmental "off duty" weapon we possess and are qualified with. We can cary others but frowned upon if we take police action.

We can carry whatever we want off duty, be we have to qualify with it first. I'm sure your department is the same.

Are the restrictions based upon caliber? Perceived effectiveness of firearm?

Most departments I know of just have a restriction that you must qualify with your choice of off duty weapon the same as you do with your duty sidearm.

 

[IndianaGTI]

That's a restriction by your department, as I understand it, not one codified in law, yes?

Blessings,
Bill

I agree Bill, it would have to be departmental restriction. The law against carrying a handgun without a license does not apply to LEO's. There is also no requirement of carrying a badge from Gall's since anyone can order one anyway.


IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by the commissioner in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business; or
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing,
repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in the person's possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.164-2011, SEC.2.

 

[lrahm]

That's a restriction by your department, as I understand it, not one codified in law, yes?

Blessings,
Bill

Yes, departmental restriction. I don't know if it is part of national certification SOP but I would be suprised if it wasn't. Not state law on it. We are given a list of certain Glocks that we can carry off duty and especially if you are driving one of their cars off duty.

 

[Dawall]

Would a LTCH be needed if the LEO is on suspension from duty? Curious also...

 

[lrahm]

Are the restrictions based upon caliber? Perceived effectiveness of firearm?

Again, just curious.

I appreciate your time.

We carry the Glock 21 on duty. It's a catch-22 for off duty. We do have to carry a certain weapons while off duty while performing police duties. I carry the Glock 26 9mm. The duties I state are not off-duty jobs but responding as an officer.

 

[lrahm]

Would a LTCH be needed if the LEO is on suspension from duty? Curious also...

Good question. I would have to assume and others can help. If he is suspended, he cannot take police action of partake of off-duty jobs. There are two types of suspensions here relieved with pay or suspended without pay. If it was a serious enough suspension he would be or could be deemed up for termination from the department, moot point for ltch.

I would think that if it were a couple day suspension he would still be allowed to carry for this reason. We have addopted a process where officers serve their suspensions on their days off. We are a salaried employee and still take a hit in the pocket if suspended. However, no manpower days are lost. We did have a system where officers (years ago) were able to turn in an equal ammount of compensatory time instead of serving days off. This wasn't a bad idea, it still hit the pocket. Any others out there with different views.

 

[in625shooter]

Would a LTCH be needed if the LEO is on suspension from duty? Curious also...

Per LEOSA guidlines Yes! If you are subject to any type of diciplinary action you are not to carry off duty (unless your department restricts it further like restricting carry on duty, desk duty etc). An Indiana permit also protects the LEO if the LEO is say off duty having a beer at Outback etc. Per LEOSA guidlines you are not permited to consume alcohol. There is no restrictions under an Indiana permit . A lot of scenerios have not been tried out however I would not want to be a "test case"

 

[jsharmon7]

Per LEOSA guidlines Yes! If you are subject to any type of diciplinary action you are not to carry off duty (unless your department restricts it further like restricting carry on duty, desk duty etc). An Indiana permit also protects the LEO if the LEO is say off duty having a beer at Outback etc. Per LEOSA guidlines you are not permited to consume alcohol. There is no restrictions under an Indiana permit . A lot of scenerios have not been tried out however I would not want to be a "test case"

Good point on not drinking if you're carrying under LEOSA. My understanding is that LEOSA only applies if you're out-of-state though. LEOSA would have nothing to do with an Indiana officer carrying in Indiana. The Indiana statute that omits LEOs from the LTCH requirements says nothing about alcohol. I don't think guns and alcohol mix, but as a point of discussion I don't think LEOSA would apply.

As an aside, have any officers here carried out-of-state under LEOSA? I'm going to Chicago in a few weeks and was curious. Are you required to follow all local laws, i.e. conceal carry vs. open, informing LEO when stopped, carrying in a restaurant that sells alcohol, etc?

 

[lrahm]

Good point on not drinking if you're carrying under LEOSA. My understanding is that LEOSA only applies if you're out-of-state though. LEOSA would have nothing to do with an Indiana officer carrying in Indiana. The Indiana statute that omits LEOs from the LTCH requirements says nothing about alcohol.

As an aside, have any officers here carried out-of-state under LEOSA? I'm going to Chicago in a few weeks and was curious. Are you required to follow all local laws, i.e. conceal carry vs. open, informing LEO when stopped, etc?

We are required to carry concealed at all times.

 

[lrahm]

Per LEOSA guidlines Yes! If you are subject to any type of diciplinary action you are not to carry off duty (unless your department restricts it further like restricting carry on duty, desk duty etc). An Indiana permit also protects the LEO if the LEO is say off duty having a beer at Outback etc. Per LEOSA guidlines you are not permited to consume alcohol. There is no restrictions under an Indiana permit . A lot of scenerios have not been tried out however I would not want to be a "test case"

If an officer here is suspended for a day, we don't have a formal turn over your gun and badge. Like I stated before, officers serve their suspensions on their days off. If it will be a lengthly suspension with termination recommended they will be transferred to the personnel office for administrative duties. Our chief can only give a 21 day suspension and the merit board meets once per month. Sometimes cases take several months to complete.

 

[jsharmon7]

Good question. I would have to assume and others can help. If he is suspended, he cannot take police action of partake of off-duty jobs.

I agree with this. Here is the definition of "law enforcement officer" I found on in.gov:

"Law enforcement officer" means an appointed officer or employee hired by and on the payroll of the state, any of the state's political subdivisions, or a public or private postsecondary educational institution whose board of trustees has established a police department under IC 21-17-5-2 or IC 21-39-4-2 who is granted lawful authority to enforce all or some of the penal laws of the state of Indiana and who possesses, with respect to those laws, the power to effect arrests for offenses committed in the officer's or employee's presence."

The bolded part leads me to believe that, under the definition provided by Indiana law, one is not technically a "law enforcement officer" if he/she does not have power to arrest or enforce laws due to their suspension. In this case, a suspended officer would not be exempted under 35-47-2-2. I won't go into the my opinion of whether one ceases to be an LEO simply due to a suspension, but the law in Indiana seems to have an opinion on it.

 

[Dogman]

Good point on not drinking if you're carrying under LEOSA. My understanding is that LEOSA only applies if you're out-of-state though. LEOSA would have nothing to do with an Indiana officer carrying in Indiana. The Indiana statute that omits LEOs from the LTCH requirements says nothing about alcohol. I don't think guns and alcohol mix, but as a point of discussion I don't think LEOSA would apply.

As an aside, have any officers here carried out-of-state under LEOSA? I'm going to Chicago in a few weeks and was curious. Are you required to follow all local laws, i.e. conceal carry vs. open, informing LEO when stopped, carrying in a restaurant that sells alcohol, etc?

You're right in regards to active LEO being covered under LEOSA out-of-state only. Retirees on the other hand who carry under LEOSA do not have to have an Indiana state LTCH. Federal law exempts both from local and state prohibitions on the carriage of concealed firearms.
Also, LEOSA doesn't prohibit consuming alcohol, it says one cannot be under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
You're still required to follow local laws.Under LEOSA carry must be concealed.

 

[Denny347]

Good point on not drinking if you're carrying under LEOSA. My understanding is that LEOSA only applies if you're out-of-state though. LEOSA would have nothing to do with an Indiana officer carrying in Indiana. The Indiana statute that omits LEOs from the LTCH requirements says nothing about alcohol. I don't think guns and alcohol mix, but as a point of discussion I don't think LEOSA would apply.

As an aside, have any officers here carried out-of-state under LEOSA? I'm going to Chicago in a few weeks and was curious. Are you required to follow all local laws, i.e. conceal carry vs. open, informing LEO when stopped, carrying in a restaurant that sells alcohol, etc?

I have carried in Chicago, NJ, FL, and NYC. You are supposed to carry according to local law. However, in NYC, so few are allowed to carry outside of LEO that there are no local carry restrictions (or very few). I was able to carry to Liberty Island but I cannot carry in the Empire State Building. Nor could I carry in the Javits Center. Not even uniformed NYPD could enter but they were kind enough to hold my pistol while I went inside for a few. Never had a problem yet carrying.

 

[Denny347]

Would a LTCH be needed if the LEO is on suspension from duty? Curious also...

We get LTCH's in case that happens so we can still carry. Can't carry under the badge when you have no badge.

 

[lovemachine]

We are required to carry concealed at all times.

Just curious, but why is that?