Kicked out of Old Navy!

[Dough Boy 1911]

I probably would have never shopped there anyway, but now I'm going to make sure my other 2nd amendment supporting friends know not to spend their hard earned cash there either.

 

[Cam]

Glad I now have a reason to not shop Old Navy/Gap. This also is a good reason for a shoulder holster.

It's their store. I would have left. Actually, it would never have happened to me as I only CC cause I like being stealthy.

I will make sure that everyone I know doesn't go to ON anymore! With that said, I'm about to walk in there and see what happens. It's a damn shame this happened to you, but you gotta be aware of how visible your gun is. Maybe its time to get something smaller.

Folks, this has absolutely nothing to do with the OP's choice of dress, holster, decision to open or concealed carry, or gun size. He doesn't need to be aware of how visible his gun is. Last I knew open carry (which he wasn't doing anyway) is legal in Indiana. He was preparing to spend money in a business that unwisely decided his presence was unwanted. There is no lesson he needs to learn about how he is carrying, only a lesson to Old Navy that they have taken the wrong stance on this topic and it is going to cost them.

Why do some people feel that the OP did something wrong here?

 

[Primetimeclimber]

That is what I was thinking but too lazy to type.

I'll be man enough to admit I go black friday shopping with the wife and sister in-laws. However, I am well aware of how crazy people get during those sales, and I ALWAYS CC to protect ourselves from some jerk who wants to try and steal what we bought. I've been in Kohls, Target, Walmart, Dicks, Sears, Lowe's, Home Depot, and Menards without anyone (public, or employee) saying or seeing anything.

Like Kutnupe14 suggested, if you have a gun, don't tell them, and they won't ask about it. CC properly, and you won't be hassled.

I'm not saying OP did anything wrong, and I'm definitely not condoning how management handled it, but the fact is, this is the world we currently live in. People need to be educated on gun laws and safe handling before they stop peeing themselves (as it was mentioned earlier in this thread) every time they see someone CC-ing. I don't think we should HAVE to be super-stealthy when CC-ing, but until the uneducated public stops viewing that as a bad thing, we will continue to get negative pub.

 

[wpframe01]

Interesting thread. I had my CWP (Concealed Weapons Permit) in South Carolina before moving to Indiana. In SC, Open Carry is not legal, and you were actually in violation of the law if you failed to keep your weapon entirely concealed. Purely anecdotal, but I remember some folks posting on the boards down there posting that they were hassled because they "flashed" when reaching to take something off of a high store shelf, or when putting their groceries in the car outside of the grocery store.

 

[indianajoe]

Okay. You got me. Here's mine (sent this evening, 28 December, to custserv@oldnavy.com and custserv@gap.com) Maybe a bit lengthy, but hoping it makes a point:

Customer Service (both Gap and Old Navy):

It is my understanding that a law-abiding citizen of the State of Indiana was asked by an Old Navy manager to leave your 86th Street Indianapolis store, on or around Monday, 26 December 2011. At the time, this American citizen was doing nothing more than shopping peaceably in your store, while exercising his 2nd Amendment right to bear arms for the protection of himself and his family (with whom he was shopping at the time). The manager happened to observe this citizen's lawful and concealed firearm, and asked him to leave the store.

In the State of Indiana, authorized holders of an LTCH (License to Carry a Handgun) are subjected to background checks by both local and state law enforcement agencies. A citizen who has been issued an LTCH has been found NOT to have ever been convicted of a felony, never been convicted of domestic violence or subject of a restraining order, no conviction for drug crimes, is not an illegal alien or fugitive from justice, nor have they received a dishonorable discharge from the US military.

Sounds pretty respectable. Can you say this about your other customers?

Law-abiding American citizens who choose to take on the personal responsibility that goes with exercise of their constitutional rights (as enumerated in the Bill of Rights) should not be made to feel unwelcome in an American place of business -- much less booted from the premises. Certainly it is within the property rights of a private business such as yours to set store policies at your discretion -- even if those policies conflict with the individual constitutional rights of private citizens.

The genius of the free market is that businesses can set policies (or not) and create an atmosphere that demonstrates respect for its customers. That respect might be shown by thorough customer service training, a liberal merchandise return policy, or... a demonstration of the company's respect for the individual constitutional rights of citizens. At the same time, private individuals can choose where to spend their money based on many factors such as price, quality, value, service... and whether or not they feel they are being respected by the business in question.

If you haven't seen the numbers, there are some 300,000 holders of valid LTCHs in the State of Indiana. The NRA claims over 4 million members. Estimates are legal gun owners in the US number between 65 and 80 million, and that approximately 45% of all American households own at least one firearm. This seems to be a substantial number of current or potential customers that your company risks alienating by refusing to recognize the constitutional rights of these American citizens.

My family and I would hope that at some point in the future, Gap / Old Navy demonstrates its commitment to the values and rights afforded to individual citizens, and enshrined in the US Constitution. At that time, we would then feel able to return to your stores and spend our hard-earned coin.

I would be receptive to hearing your company's response to these thoughts.

Best,

indianajoe
USMC veteran, NRA member, law-abiding citizen of the State of Indiana, holder of a valid Indiana Lifetime LTCH, and Consumer
Indianapolis, IN​

 

[hot rod al]

I will make sure that everyone I know doesn't go to ON anymore! With that said, I'm about to walk in there and see what happens. It's a damn shame this happened to you, but you gotta be aware of how visible your gun is. Maybe its time to get something smaller.

I own smaller firearms, but my full size 1911 is my daily carry and conceals fine with my Galco King Tuk. When the weather gets cool I usually go with my Fobus as I find that more comfortable. I was fully aware that my jacket didn't fully conceal my gun at all times and don't see what the big fuss is. It's not like I was blatantly carrying open.

 

[Hammerhead]

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[kyotekilr]

Just like it is your right to carry it is their right to tell you to leave. No need to be pissed just don't go back.

 

[mammynun]

I asked the question on Facebook, nothing official yet. Linky:
https://www.facebook.com/front2enemy#!/oldnavy/posts/10150439897832021?notif_t=feed_comment

hope the link works.

 

[EPD1102]

Letter to corporate, but expect the usual. Sign or no sign I believe you would have been trespassing had you failed to leave. Win for them lose for you. You did the right thing.

This sounds like the right answer.

 

[Ldog187]

Everyone should send an email to OLD NAVY and GAP letting them know that we will not be spending any more money at their stores as we are now aware of their policy and are law-abiding citizens. Also, let them know of your plans of telling everyone how the GAP and OLD NAVY do not support the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution and they should not shop their either. Word of Mouth is a great tool at our disposal.

If they get a flood of emails over their policy they might consider changing it as it might actually effect their sales, which is the only thing they really care about.

The link to the OhioCCW was great and could be used as inspiration for an email to GAP and OLD NAVY.

custserv@oldnavy.com
custserve@thegap.com

I've seen the reply from Old Navy Customer Service posted here and I'm sure that will be the response I get.

 

[bigg cheese]

all I can say is I've never stepped into an Old Navy, and they would be appalled by how unfashionably I dress, so they've not lost any sales by me.

 

[youngda9]

I will no longer shop there. Damn I was looking good in their pants with an Old Navy logo shirt and a fashonable scarf draped around my neck.

 

[Cam]

Damn I was looking good in their pants with an Old Navy logo shirt and a fashonable scarf draped around my neck.

Who doesn't?!

 

[jetmechG550]

In regards to old navy I carry my 1911 all the time in the greenwood mall. thankfully I've never been in that situation. But I do look for those signs that say no firearms. That doesn't mean I obey them. But greenwood currently doesn't have one. Butt I'm sure that could change. One more way they are trying to infringe on our rights. We must protect our 2nd amendment.

Greenwood is a Simon Property. The no firearms sign is on the mall code of conduct sign in obscure locations. I don't think you can enter ON from the outside like Dick's or the other department stores.

 

[goinggreyfast]

I asked the question on Facebook, nothing official yet. Linky:
https://www.facebook.com/front2enemy#!/oldnavy/posts/10150439897832021?notif_t=feed_comment

hope the link works.

Been there, done that...post deleted within 5 minutes.

 

[TTravis]

If you wear something from Old Navy, people might, just might, think you are a veteran. I think I'll start a store called Old Fart Army.

 

[bender574]

I don't have a permit to carry yet but it is at the top of my list. after getting my new career rolling. I did learn the importance of making sure that you carry concealed now. I will back you up in that me and my family will not shop there again.... at least not unless I'm carrying even then we would skip that place for me I ratter have teeth pulled out with out novacaine. Now there is a good reason to skip that place well now I can tell the wife that anyway

 

[MillenniumC5]

I told my fiance we would be boycotting Old Navy. It did not go over well, she siad I could wait outside for her while she got her pajama pants. I'll still stand with everyone even thought my house is now divided.

 

[Hammerhead]

All the places I've visited or patronized OC or CC since I became a legally licensed carrier, none have ever asked me to leave or even cover up.

I've had one cop ask me to cover up and I said no. She dropped the issue.

It's not only about concealing, it's about carrying with confidence and not drawing attention. This is in no way faulting the OP, nor am I saying that he drew attention to himself.

It's not always about concealing.