Is American Decline Reversible?

[Ziggidy]

What makes me believe we are at stage in this country that may be questionable is the fact that every so often this topic comes up. Over the years, how any times have we asked ourselves or others the same question, can it get any worse? How far off track will we get before something is done? Every 5 years or so we ask, how did we get here? We talk about how America can never be overtaken, our constitution is too solid! We will go to the streets if we need to. We have millions of guns so they won’t go there!

Blah blah blah….every day is a new advance for the socialists.

What can stop it? They steal the vote, they thumb their nose at the law, ignore court rulings and so much more. Every tactic they are using is in the socialist playbook; we know and they know it and yet, here we are.

We are responsible Americans who follow the law, respect the constitution, respect of offices of our government, respect people and property and are faced with individuals who are the exact opposite. The very departments of the government who are supposed to be bound by law are the same departments who have been weaponized against the people they are supposed to protect.

We need an intervention from God.

God forbid we ever go to war against, it will not be against our government. Any war we have within this country will be against the bloodless coup that has happened over the last 10 years or more. We will be going against socialist. If that happens, our Republic will win.

However that is my thought, it is not my will. I truly hope and pray we never go to war against ourselves. I pray to God that never happens but I also pray to God for strength, wisdom and hips divine intervention. If we collectively pray as one, and turn from our ways - He says He will heal our land. It’s up to us. Let’s start humbling ourselves and pray like it truly makes a difference, because it does.

 

[thompal]

The reasons.

1. Uncontrollable U.S. Debt
2. Low student achievement
3. Increasing income and wealth inequality
4. Loss of American identity and patriotism
5. Widespread belief that our political system is broken

Five reasons American decline appears irreversible - Liberty Unyielding

Republican presidential candidates often warn that America is declining, and that only they can stop its demise. Former President Donald Trump believes that the national decline halted during his term in office and will stop again when he is reelected. But five unmistakable signs of American...

libertyunyielding.com

I would add to that the fact that we can no longer manufacture anything. We went from being the "Arsenal of Democracy" in the 30s and 40s, providing thousands of trucks, planes, tanks, guns, millions of rounds of ammo, and tons of food to the UK and Russia, to where we are now - when we can't even make paper masks

And a stock market that is totally divorced from actual productivity.

A country that can't provide for itself is in trouble.

 

[patience0830]

All of these problems would vanish if we wound up in a major war with a draft, so you can't say it's irreversible.

The road to get there has a few options, but that's really the only one that's going to do it in our lifetime.

There's another road, but it would also paint a clear path to victory for our opponents in the long term.

Wealth inequality would be a relatively simple one to solve in 3 steps:
1.) Trust bust
2.) No more imported goods
3.) Dropping minimum wage for a scale that determines tax rates for business based on the disparity between the top earners and bottom earners.

So. . . . communism and isolationism?

 

[wtburnette]

There is a concerted effort to destroy this country. Unless those entities are rooted out and stopped, the efforts will continue. If Trump wins, we may get 4 good years of turning back to the right path, but unless extreme measures are taken I fear we'll go back to the same pathway to hell that we're on now.

 

[firecadet613]

There is a concerted effort to destroy this country. Unless those entities are rooted out and stopped, the efforts will continue. If Trump wins, we may get 4 good years of turning back to the right path, but unless extreme measures are taken I fear we'll go back to the same pathway to hell that we're on now.

IF Trump gets back in and he doesn't go scorched earth, it'll just be a 4 year delay in their efforts to destroy this country.

 

[Shadow01]

It took 70 years to get to this point and we don’t have another 70 years to slow walk our way back to the right.

 

[Leadeye]

I remember the late 70s being bad and people feeling the same way, but things got better. The 'survivalist' movement gained a lot of support during that time, but rather than the 80s being a disaster things got better. I don't know what it will take this time as the problems are different. All I can do is take care of my own and I focus on that.

 

[smokingman]

I remember the late 70s being bad and people feeling the same way, but things got better. The 'survivalist' movement gained a lot of support during that time, but rather than the 80s being a disaster things got better. I don't know what it will take this time as the problems are different. All I can do is take care of my own and I focus on that.

View attachment 327768

Inflation was almost 15% during the 1980s. It was lowered by killing and exporting manufacturing more than interest rate hikes(which were higher than the inflation rate, something they can not possibly do now without wiping out most jobs in the USA). Leading to deflation.
We can not do anything close to that level of deflation currently.
34 trillion, and likely in 2025 we will pay more in interest than on our military(CBO originally estimated that would happen in 2034).

Short of defaulting we are in a debt loop spiral and every single time they add to that debt we pick up more speed. Inflation can not come down no matter how badly they fudge the data at the BLS while the government spends more than they take in.
1980s inflation is going to look like a good deal sooner rather than later I suspect.

 

[Twangbanger]

We lost a cause to unite us and drive us as a nation. Hunger, religion or survival are strong motivations.

As tough as Israel has it, surrounded on all sides by people who want to destroy it, every man woman and child there is dang sure why they exist and their children serve in the IDF.

What we just saw in Israel was a religious, disarmed, idealistic population containing lots of expatriates (ie, from "somewhere else" and do not even live there year-round), dancing in raves while an ever-present nearby enemy prepared to overrun them and take them hostage.

America may not be on a great path, but I don't think the Israeli example is one we want to follow.

 

[philo]

All of these problems would vanish if we wound up in a major war with a draft, so you can't say it's irreversible.

The road to get there has a few options, but that's really the only one that's going to do it in our lifetime.

There's another road, but it would also paint a clear path to victory for our opponents in the long term.

Wealth inequality would be a relatively simple one to solve in 3 steps:
1.) Trust bust
2.) No more imported goods
3.) Dropping minimum wage for a scale that determines tax rates for business based on the disparity between the top earners and bottom earners.

1 and 3 would be made exponentially worse by a major war with conscription. 2,4,and 5 are likely to preclude our winning said "major war".

 

[Twangbanger]

Inflation was almost 15% during the 1980s. It was lowered by killing and exporting manufacturing more than interest rate hikes(which were higher than the inflation rate, something they can not possibly do now without wiping out most jobs in the USA). Leading to deflation.
We can not do anything close to that level of deflation currently.
34 trillion, and likely in 2025 we will pay more in interest than on our military(CBO originally estimated that would happen in 2034).

Short of defaulting we are in a debt loop spiral and every single time they add to that debt we pick up more speed. Inflation can not come down no matter how badly they fudge the data at the BLS while the government spends more than they take in.
1980s inflation is going to look like a good deal sooner rather than later I suspect.

I suspect you are right. Last night I was throwing stuff away and looking through old papers and receipts from the early 1990s. Back then I had bought a Japanese electronic scale for $85, that I recently replaced with a comparable Chinese one for $25.

...but the yellowed Krogers ad had 5 lbs. of ground chuck for $1.19.

 

[manifest destiny]

Wait...we're finally acknowledging that income and wealth inequality contribute to social decline in the US? INGO Hell must have frozen over, that's the sort of talk that got me labeled a socialist here in the past.

I wonder if there will be any introspection on how much personal contribution people have to the Balkanization of the US via #4 and #5 here? I doubt it, but I'm still recovering from my fainting spell over #3 being acknowledged.

If number 3 is such a sticking point for you, describe how equal the income should be among citizens. Moreso, describe how we make income even and equal among citizens.

 

[Tombs]

So. . . . communism and isolationism?

So busting up Union Railroad was communism?

But yes, we need isolationism if our economic competition is slave labor. We'll never compete with that, full stop.

Conversely we could only allow imported competition if they meet the same standards for wages, benefits, safety, and emission regulations. Otherwise you're just allowing the rest of the world to loot your wealth and lower the US citizen's quality of life.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If number 3 is such a sticking point for you, describe how equal the income should be among citizens. Moreso, describe how we make income even and equal among citizens.

Well, false premise in that nobody is advocating for equal income compared to the opportunity for social and economic mobility. But, otherwise well trodden ground I've no interest in going over again. There's no simple solutions, certainly nothing I'm going to encapsulate in a forum post.

 

[DragonGunner]

It looks grim for us. We may of gone too far this time. America has always had its good and evil working every generation. I remember Rush Limbaugh saying in 1992 if Clinton gets elected it’s the end, never make it to another election. We survived a Civil War. I read a paper clipping about morality going straight down, that evil has over takin us, we have turned our backs on God, education has failed and we can’t think we can survive as a nation. It was dated around 1875. I’m not sure what our final outcome will be. Hope for the best, prepare for the worse. And don’t bow to evil even if evil prevails. I’ll trust the rest to God. I sure don’t put my faith in the political parties.

 

[Vodnik4]

What we just saw in Israel was a religious, disarmed, idealistic population containing lots of expatriates (ie, from "somewhere else" and do not even live there year-round), dancing in raves while an ever-present nearby enemy prepared to overrun them and take them hostage.

America may not be on a great path, but I don't think the Israeli example is one we want to follow.

Interesting point.
To counter it: that’s also a country that got cobbled together from expatriates from all over the place, and within a decade they had a fully functional country, due to constant threat from outside.
Not saying we should be like Israel, pointing out that extreme pressure unites people.

 

[Twangbanger]

Interesting point.
To counter it: that’s also a country that got cobbled together from expatriates from all over the place, and within a decade they had a fully functional country, due to constant threat from outside.
Not saying we should be like Israel, pointing out that extreme pressure unites people.

I'd counter Israel had a fully-functional country in a short time because the ready-made pieces were largely assembled from elsewhere. A steady supply of idealistic, civilized, affluent expatriates from around the world, plus the assurance of massive, ongoing military support from a superpower benefactor made them immediately functional in spite of outside pressure, not because of it.

Hunger, religion, and survival unite people? All that's necessary to refute this is to pull out a map of Africa. Such factors are present in places where people are killing each other over tribal differences and selling each other into slavery. Closer to home, for every instance of a successful North American settlement which persevered under the pious virtues of faith in hardship, it's not hard to find another which ended in infighting, dissolution, and decampment back to Europe. The most which can be reliably said is that those factors "can" unit people. Under the right circumstances, with other key ingredients in place.

But the question in this thread was not what can be assembled in 10 years; it's "Will it last?" The problem is humans don't want to live their lives under extreme pressure. That's the definition of progress; "I didn't die penniless like my grandfather." If humans need someone to throw hand-grenades at them in perpetuity to insure them against cultural decline, then we've probably already answered the OP's question. It's taken 200 years for America to get to this point; Israel is already showing cracks at the seams in a much shorter time.