Innovative Tactical Concetps-Richmond Indiana

[Dave]

So after reading through this thread https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/the_break_room/3902-swat_magazine.html

I decided to pick up a copy of SWAT at the book store today.

There is a positive article in there about Innovative Tactical Concepts out of Richmond Indiana.

Anyone train with them?

 

[Fenway]

I have not heard of them Dave. But I saw the same article in SWAT

 

[sjstill]

IIRC, the guy behind it is a 'real' ninja....

Believe he participated in one class with Tactical Response, and decided that he could also instruct. His website (used to be?) almost a direct rip-off of Tactical Responses'.

I'd steer clear, but that's just me.

The article in SWAT seemed to be a thinly veiled ad, something I'm not used to seeing in SWAT.

 

[indyninja]

found some videos fwiw

YouTube - Advanced Pistol Fighting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTQmJlZrBJE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xINrzuves3Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTMNyAl2ueg

 

[rhino]

They've been around a while.

Many people here in Indiana have participated in multiple classes with other instructors and schools and thus have a basis for making informed decisions on such things. Note that most don't have much to say about them.

Infer from that what you wish.

After reading messages the front man has posted on GlockTalk and looking at their web site, I have no interest in their products.

Again, infer from that what you will.

 

[AKsteve]

The part I like most about those videos is when the music stops.

 

[Brian@ITC]

STSTILL

I have been teaching self-defense for a number of years, including firearms. By your comment, you seem to be a guncentric person as is most firearms training.

The gun is not the solution to the problem. Truth of the matter is that a life threatening situation is nothing short of a FIGHT. A gun is simply a tool and it is no different than using a knife, club, empty hand, etc.

If you are up for some real training, then maybe you need to attend one of our courses and see why we are different. In fact, I am so confident that our training is better than most others; you can come as my guest. We are holding a private Advanced Pistol Fighting Course on June 28th & 29th. All you need to bring is the necessary items for the course. Visit our website or contact me directly for the items you will need.

We have had people who have trained with Blackwater, TDI, Masaad Ayoob, and a number of other "big name" schools and said our training is better. But hey, don't take our word for it, or theirs!

I look forward to seeing you in the course!

Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

 

[esrice]

Wow that's quite an offer! What kind of backgrounds do you and your instructors have, Brian?

 

[Fenway]

Where is the course taking place?

We are holding a private Advanced Pistol Fighting Course on June 28th & 29th. All you need to bring is the necessary items for the course. Visit our website or contact me directly for the items you will need.

 

[bigcraig]

Interesting, to say the least.

 

[Brian@ITC]

We have a variety of backgrounds. Most of which have extensive martial arts backgrounds, mixed with LE and Military experience as well. Please visit our website for more information on our staff.

We have more staff to ad, so the list is not complete. The question is, do you want to learn how to fight and survive, or focus on marksmanship which will not be as good as you think in a life threatening situation.

Personally, if you want to know how to fight, you go to a "fighter" right? Someone who knows "self defense" inside and out and is not limited by rules, tools available, etc. Simply put, our Advanced Pistol Fighting course is not a shooting course, it IS a FIGHTING course. A REAL FIGHTING course. The focus of this course is NOT the gun. It IS survival.

Most of our concepts are developed from unarmed combatives for civilian conflicts. We teach a progressive system that includes what to do if you do not have a gun or cannot draw your gun, which are really the same moves.

As I said, a life threatening situation is a FIGHT, nothing less. It doesn't matter how good of a marksman you are if you do not survive long enough in a fight to have the opportunity to draw your gun. In many instances, drawing your gun can get you injured or killed.

I will tell you this, we know how to fight and we will teach you the same. We reveal several weaknesses about traditional firearms training relative to the fight. So, believe the hype about what you read on the forums, or come and learn the truth about what we do!

No, I don't have a long list of impressive firearms credentials. The attacker doesn't care about those credentials either. However, I will be the attackers worst nightmere because I can fight with or without a gun.

I don't have an extensive list of credentials for knife fighting, stick fighting, etc. Why, because they are just tools... just as is a gun. I know how to use a gun in a fight, and more importantly, I know when and when not to use it as well.

My mind is the weapon, and my body is simply a delivery system for whatever tools I choose to use.
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Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

 

[Brian@ITC]

The course is in Richmond, IN. We are buidling a private range this week. The purpose of the range is to provide a hard sight for training in Indiana and Ohio.

I will say this. We are not afraid to put our training up against anyone's as far as "concealed carry" goes for civilians. We have been training this way in our personal training for 20+ years. We just decided to start teaching the public about 4 years ago.

__________________
Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

 

[Pami]

Forgive me, Brian, if I sound argumentative, but I'm curious as to the reasoning behind this...

Why is it called a "Pistol" course if the focus is not on the pistol itself? Your company has separate courses for unarmed combatives (which actually seems like a good place to teach what to do if you can't get to your pistol), blades, rifles, shotguns, and expandable batons, all of which seem to focus on the items in their respective titles, but the advanced pistol class doesn't help you use your pistol more effectively and efficiently? At least that's the message I'm getting from your post and the website. (by the way, your force-on-force and gun retention pages appear to be missing -- you might want to have your web guru check the link hrefs to those).

 

[Brian@ITC]

Pami,

Simply put, because the Pistol is the "tool" being used in this course. We teach you how to fight unarmed AND with your pistol.

Quite honestly, we had a difficult time choosing names for it because there are so many "concealed carry" courses out there and this is NOT just another concealed carry course.

We thought calling it something like "Integrated Combatives", but we liked Advanced Pistol Fighting best.

____________________
Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

 

[Brian@ITC]

Pami,

I forgot to address this...

but the advanced pistol class doesn't help you use your pistol more effectively and efficiently?

We think that it helps people to use their tool more effectively and effeciently because of the way it is implemented into the fight. Understanding the dynamics of a confrontation and what you TRULY can and cannot do will help you to better use your tool in the fight--right?


____________________
Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

 

[Pami]

Pami,

Simply put, because the Pistol is the "tool" being used in this course. We teach you how to fight unarmed AND with your pistol.

Quite honestly, we had a difficult time choosing names for it because there are so many "concealed carry" courses out there and this is NOT just another concealed carry course.

We thought calling it something like "Integrated Combatives", but we liked Advanced Pistol Fighting best.

____________________
Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

Thanks for the response. It's still a little confusing, but I can see where you're going with it.

 

[465guy]

Brian, If I want to learn to ski am I going to go to a ski instructor or someone who trains people for triathlons?

Sure the triathlon instructor is probably a world class athlete and can teach me things. But can he teach me how to ski really well?

Do I want to learn how to fight? Yes, but in particular with a pistol. You say you are a fighter. Ok, on your bio you cite that you have been a student of martial arts for a long time. Cool. I guess that meas you are a "fighter" but what are your credentials or experiences that give you the ability to teach me to fight with a pistol. How will you be able to diagnose and correct my weaknesses. Who have you learned from? What does your training "family tree" look like? You say you have trained in firearms for 20 years. With who? I see one firearms course on there that you have taken.

There are many opportunities posted in this section. Many of the instructors come with a resume a mile long. You don't have that resume and are kind of telling us you don't really need it. I'm not sure I believe that. I hope someone here takes the class and reports back.

Personally, if you want to know how to fight, you go to a "fighter" right? Someone who knows "self defense" inside and out and is not limited by rules, tools available, etc. Simply put, our Advanced Pistol Fighting course is not a shooting course, it IS a FIGHTING course. A REAL FIGHTING course. The focus of this course is NOT the gun. It IS survival.

 

[Brian@ITC]

465guy,

Let me ask you this. Exactly why is there a separation of “firearms” training and unarmed combatives? Because a lot of firearms instructors do not possess hand-to-hand skills and they rely on their gun to resolve the situation. The handgun, sadly enough, has become the “diet pill” of self-protection. If you rely on the gun to save you, then you are in for a rude awakening.

Can you tell me 100% without a doubt that you will be able to get your gun out in a fight and use it, and immediately take the attacker out of the fight? Of course not. But, SO MANY people believe they can. And, it isn’t all the “person’s fault” because a lot of instructors teach the “pretty picture syndrome”.

Again, I will say that a tool is a tool no matter what it is. If I use a rake as my tool to defend myself, do I need to seek a “certified” instructor in rake-fu? No, as long as I understand how that tool works, I should use the rake in a similar manner that I would deploy a knife into the fight. That is, how I move should be pretty much the same way.

As far as “diagnosing” your ability to fight with a pistol, well, I’d say that I do have some expertise in that area because we are teaching you how to fight without a gun, and then with a gun. Just because you are using a gun does not change the dynamics of the fight, and that is what we are talking about, real life encounters.

I have trained with a pistol, rifle, shotgun, knives, sticks, etc. for over 20 years, and I have trained with people who have trained with some of the biggest names out there. If they share things with me that they learned, do I really need to go and pay the big bucks to train with those people? Again, shooting is not rocket science. Grip, “stance”, sight alignment, trigger control, and follow through are the basics and they will not change no matter who is teaching them. However, we are not big on “stance” in our courses because if your shooting stance is good, then you are probably not moving fast enough to survive!!!

Implementing the gun into the fight in a manner how most firearms instructors teach IMHO, is not realistic to how a fight will take place. As I’ve said before, I know how to fight. So, how would I implement that gun into a fight? I’ve done it the way other instructor’s teach, and quite honestly, the way most instructors teach doesn’t make sense to me. Do you really think that you will be able to draw your gun and get two hands on the gun in a real fight? Do you really believe that you will be able to hit your target and take them out of the fight? That is a pretty high expectation in our book. How many schools teach “close quarters combat” stuff when dealing with someone who is 5, 7, or 10 feet away and putting the gun out to full extension and shooting? I’d say 99% of them. Any time you are within 10 feet of an attacker and you draw your gun, you should probably be shooting from retention.

Through our personal training we have found weaknesses in typical firearms training. Some of those weaknesses should be obvious for those who actually train on their own and think things through. But, because someone with a long list of “gun credentials” says “This is the way to use your gun in a fight”, people believe that blindly. Or, because someone has seen “combat”, they “must” know what they are doing—right? What works in one situation will not work in every situation—plain and simple and we will tell you that it is the same way with our stuff.

Honestly, most firearms training is inside the box training because the training is guncentric and that is not a good thing. Although we teach Advanced Pistol Fighting and other courses, the gun is not the focus of what is going on. It IS about the fight and how do you stay in the fight and survive. Just because you have a gun on your person does not mean that you should or could draw your gun, because doing so may be what gets you injured or killed.

There is a lot missing in firearms training when it comes to the FIGHT. People paint a pretty picture about drawing your gun and using it. We don’t paint pretty pictures. We give you the hard core truth about what can happen in a fight with and without a gun.

Most firearms training is the same just with a different twist. In fact, one of the schools I have attended teaches what I learned somewhere else, but their focus was on one thing and one thing only, mindset. So, other than the mindset aspect, things were pretty much the same as I have seen from others I have trained with on the side who have gone to big name schools. Sure, drills may change from school to school to teach you something they are trying to get you to learn, but everyone acts like shooting is very difficult. Most confrontations take place within 10 feet – right? Are you telling me that I cannot hit my target from 10 feet out? Or that I can’t teach you or anyone else to do the same? Or that I need some long list of credentials to teach basic shooting techniques to hit the target accurately? Anything above the basics is personal preference. Just because someone teaches something, doesn’t mean that it is the best way to accomplish the goal. I have the basics down and down good. So, what really matters above that? Are we teaching you marksmanship? NOPE. FIGHTING!

I can hit my target from a retention position from 10 feet out. Can you? Can I teach you to do that without all of those “impressive” credentials? You bet I can. You see, it’s not what a piece of paper or attending “x” amount of courses that determines what you can do. It only means that you have had the training. It is how you perform that matters.

And, just because someone with “credentials” teaches something, does always mean that it is suitable for self-defense purposes. But, how would you know the information is or is not valid? How much information do you have that you are 100% certain will work in a confrontation? How do you know it has been ‘tested’ and will work under the circumstance you may face? Will it work against multiple opponents who have you surrounded?

It is through our personal training without rules and limitations, and without the mindset of “we are using guns”, how would I survive a fight without my gun, and how would I do it if I had a gun. And you know what, for the most part the tactics are the same. We put what is being taught by “bigger name” firearms schools to the test and evaluate why the teaching does or does not work. You see, until you start training on your own and thinking outside the box and realize that it is a fight you are in, there is no way that you will see what I am talking about.

If you have some people role play with you using force-on-force training and someone is really trying to hurt you, you will see that most of the time you are toast when using “typical firearm training tactics.” Paper targets don’t shoot back or inflict pain. They are not trying to kill you. So, how do you KNOW that what you have learned is indeed enough to give you even a “decent” chance at surviving a conflict? Because you have trained with someone with “credentials”?

Are the tactics you would use with a gun different than without a gun? If so, WHY?! For the most part, the tactics should be the same. We teach a complete self-defense system, and some of that training involves using a gun while FIGHTING… fighting being the key word.

A lot of things taught in typical firearms training may work if you are faced with an attacker who is stationary, and there is only one of them. One could be so lucky to have one stationary opponent. We live in the real world where there is no such thing as a fair fight. The only rules you should be living by are there are none in a fight.

Let’s say for a second that I had some big impressive list of firearms credentials. Does it change what I do now? NOPE. Why, because our approach to fighting IS different than most people’s.

There are only so many ways to grip and shoot a gun. Most schools teach the same thing. In our basic firearms class, we teach these ways too. However, when it comes to the practicality of implementing the gun into a fight, this is where most schools fail in our opinion.

A lot of trainers are former LE or Military. What works for them in their situation may or may not work in a civilian situation. There are a lot of differences in LE and Military conflicts. Most of the time civilians are far behind the curve when it comes to dealing with a life threatening situation.

Let me ask you this. I am sure that you have seen the footage on youtube regarding the challenge. Does your current “firearms” training teach you to deal with that situation and survive? Could you really draw your gun and use it and remain in the fight?

Shooting and fighting are NOT the same thing. We are teaching fighting with a pistol. There is a difference. Simply put, stop thinking about the gun and think about the fight! You seem to be guncentric as well. Come and train with us and we will show you the difference!

Our training is without a doubt outside the box. If you take the principles that we teach using a pistol, you could use most of those same principles when using a knife, or defending yourself empty hand. When using just about any tool, there are times you need to be close, and others you need to create distance. There are good ways to move, and there are not so good ways to move. All have risks involved.

Please explain to me why using a gun is “so” different than using any other tool. I will tell you why. Because people have been conditioned to believe that in order to know how to use a gun, you must go to a “gun guru”. Are these people “knowledgeable” about guns? Sure, but it is the tactics of using them that we disagree with. We are not saying that everything the typical firearms instructor teaches is crap. We are just saying there is a better way to use the gun in the fight and that is what we teach.

Now, our disagreements with how things are taught does not stop with firearms. It also includes H2H training, knife training, etc. There are things taught that place you in danger. Until you train on your own, you will not know what works and what doesn’t. That’s the bottom line.

Have you EVER questioned why something an instructor said works? I don’t mean in front of the class. But have you really gone home and seen the good, the bad, and the ugly about that teaching? Well, WE HAVE. That is why we do what we do.

Do you want to limit yourself to “firearms” training? Or, do you want to see the bigger picture and learn things that we can teach you that will help you to better understand the fight and how you can increase your chances of survival?

People, the time to learn that your training is missing something is not in a life threatening situation. There are a number of elements in a fight missing from most firearms training.

Honestly, I think that too many people have a false sense of security because they have had “firearms” training. Most of our students will tell you they did. In fact, I am not aware of one who hasn’t said something to the effect of “I had the wrong idea about using a gun in a fight”. And our response is normally something like, “yes, we know… because we used to think that way too.”

Truth of the matter is that people want to hang on to what they think they know and not step out of their comfort zone to learn something that could very well enlighten them and save their life.

Do yourself a favor people, and never ever follow anyone blindly in anything that you do. And that includes training with us. Think about why things do or do not work. Put them to the test! WE DID!

Question is, do you want to step out and learn something new?

I think that we must be doing things right because we are getting calls and emails from all around the world about people wanting to teach our stuff and/or become certified instructors. We are not certifying instructors for a number of reasons.

You all are forgetting something. Some of our staff has had far more “firearms” training than me, and they see things for what they really are a fight. They see the flaws in most firearms training for civilian purposes. If they can see the light, then why can’t others see the light? Because people follow people blindly due to their “credentials”.

If we were just another school teaching firearms, why start one up because there are literally thousands already in existence teaching pretty much the same thing! It is because we are different that we exist! When people see or experience our stuff, their reaction is normally “WOW! That is crazy. I’ve never thought about doing that...

A prime example of our difference is the fact that Clint Lake (a student last year and instructor of ours this year) has taken all of TDI’s handgun courses and was blown away by our mindset and tactics of fighting. Clint understands the difference and realizes that there is more to the fight than using a firearm in a fight.

Again, people put too much emphasis on the gun and not training for the fight.

My mind is the weapon. My body is simply a delivery system for whatever tool I choose to use in a fight (--Brian K. LaMaster). Think about what I just said for a while. Using the same principles to use a gun, knife, stick, etc. in a fight, reduces the amount of time necessary to learn each tool. One should be able to pick a up tool (garden implements, hammers, etc.) and know how to use it in a fight. But you can only do that if the principles for using that tool are the same and they are for all tools.

When we look for instructors, we look for a martial arts background because teaching someone the “firearms” side of things is relatively easy. Why do we look for martial arts background over firearms training, because you must understand how to fight WITHOUT a gun in order to understand how to truly fight WITH a gun. The question is, DO YOU (anyone reading this!) know how to fight with and without a gun? Or how to realistically implement your gun into the fight?!


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Brian K. LaMaster - Innovative Tactical Concepts

 

[Shay]

It's so great to have you here, Brian.

I'd like to take a class with your school some day to see just how much more better your curriculum is than everyone else's. You don't seem to have a good idea with other schools are teaching (besides Tactical Response of course) but you talk with authority about other programs as if you've actually taken some of them.

So, taking away the cloak of generality, please tell me how your ECQC program differs from what is being taught by South Narc. Specifically, tell me how what you are teaching is superior.

My prediction is that you can't. But that won't stop you from posting a multi-page response that talks about how you only teach fighting and how you gun classes aren't gun classes at all and your stuff is so much better than what's out there.

The only thing me no longer being with Tactical Response changes is now I get to be honest.It's great!

I got your PM by the way.

 

[465guy]

Brian, Basically what you have told me in 2613 words (literally) is that you have 0 credentials besides a Tactical Response class.