If I Was A Felon

[SteveM4A1]

I see your point. It would make more sense if guns were actually 'illegal' rather than 'controlled.' People with cars kill people. We require folks who want to drive to meet some requirements. Cars are not illegal, but not everyone is allowed to drive them. Babies, the blind, drunk people, my girlfriend....



I understand your point. It's certainly not fair, but how do we do this?

First off, they aren't allowed to drive on anything but private property.

Next, you are comparing owning a firearm to driving a car, which is not the same. Apples to apples would be owning a firearm and owning a car, or firing a firearm and driving a car. It is hard to compare.

 

[stephen87]

they should make a place for us to get background checks for people for free for firearm sales....that is not linked to the weapon...allow us to use this voluntariliy..maybe it already exists

What you did there, I see it.

 

[cosermann]

... a big percentage of the guns are bought from "private" sellers at gun shows.

Not to pile on, but do you have a reference for this?

Meanwhile, here are some excerpts/data from a DOJ study published in 2006, "Violent Encounters - A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." [1]

"To protect all Americans, the federal government has passed many laws to restrict and limit firearm purchases. The offenders in this research, however, stated that NONE of these laws or statutes deterred them. During interviews in the Killed in the Line of Duty study, one offender said, 'The weapon I used was stolen in an auto burglary. I didn't worry about any laws. I sawed the stock and barrel off and had never fired the weapon until I shot and killed the officer.' During interviews for the In the Line of Fire study, and offender who shot and seriously wounded an officer with a handgun stated, 'I stole the gun from a guy who stole the gun in a burglary in another jurisdiction.' This offender also said, "Guns are very easy to get on the street; you just have to know the right people.'

Because offenders in the earlier studies made similar statements, the investigators expanded the protocols in the current one to obtain additional information about the weapons used to assault law enforcement officers. These supplemental inquiries included the origin of the weapons. . . "

"Of the 33 handguns used to assault the officers who participated in the current study, 32 (97 percent) were obtained ILLEGALLY."

"The weapon [i.e. handgun] that was legally obtained was purchased from a firearms dealer in a store." [Even a few legally purchased firearms are used in crimes. See also paragraph below.]

"In the current study, offenders used 4 rifles and 1 shotgun to assault officers during separate incidents. The offender using the shotgun to attack an officer obtained it during an illegal purchase or trade. One of the rifles had been acquired during a homicide, while another was an illegal purchase or trade. The 2 remaining rifles were legally purchased from licensed firearms dealer stores. None of the rifles, shotguns, or handguns connected with this study were obtained from gun shows or related activities."

When asked about the ease of obtaining firearms illegally, one offender in the current study said: 'All these politicians are screaming about more gun laws, more gun laws. F--- the gun laws. I never gave a sh-- about the gun laws that are on the books. And, the 8,000 new gun laws would have made absolutely [no difference], whatsoever, about me getting a gun. Why? Because I never went into a gun store or to a gun show or to a pawn shop or anyplace where firearms are legally bought and sold and picked up a gun, ever. ... Why? Because I can break into Joe Blow's house down the road here. And, if you do your burglaries in the right places, the chances are very good, I'd say 80 percent or better, that these people are going to have a handgun of one form or another. You can then take that handgun and sell it privately. Of course, it's not a legal sale. Of course, it's under the table because you're probably selling it to another felon, you know, and make money of it or swap him for a better piece. But, that's the most proficient way that I've found to do it, was just break into a house whereit was relatively likely they were gonna have a piece and search the motherf----- from top to bottom until you found your gun."

The investigators then asked this offender how difficult it would be to illegally purchase a gun on the street, he responded: "Sure, the black market, quote, unquote. You can get everything from a cheap little .22-caliber Saturday night special that's gonna maybe fire two rounds and fall apart; you can buy anything from that to a .50 caliber Desert Eagle, you know, that retails for twenty-two hundred bucks. You can find everything in between . . . whatever you want to get a hold of."

Another offender, ". . . you know, you got everybody out there doing their thing as far as being a criminal. You got guys out there that sell drugs. Guys out there that do burglaries and all that stuff. So, there is some gun sellers out there; so when it comes down to getting the connect, it's not difficult at all. I mean, there's somebody selling guns. I mean, it's easy. I want to say it's almost easy as being able to find drugs. Somebody knows somebody who sells guns."

Such statements are representative of the offenders interviewed.

What effect is requiring background checks on so-called private sales going to have? Make them MORE ILLEGAL when felons do them?

[1] - http://freedomsadvocate.com/files/r...ultsonAmericasLawEnforcementOfficers-2003.pdf

 

[Tyler-The-Piker]

If I were a felon I wouldn't use proper english either.

 

[Jack Burton]

If I were a felon I wouldn't use proper english either.

Not every felon is Martha Stewart.

 

[Slawburger]

.

 

[protias]

The Gun Control Debate, by Charles Heller

Background checks are a placebo, a useless "feel good" drug, to placate the citizens, and make them think that we are prohibiting criminals and lunatics from getting guns. People in their right minds, understand that criminals do not obey laws, ergo the designation, "criminal".

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

That is also true, and I`m sorry. Those without an LTCH, will have to go thru a FFL. That is a small price to pay to help keep guns from felons.

You can't make them go anywhere, you only get to decide that they can't come to you. I don't mandate a LTCH before a sale.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I figure the state has done a fine job and if anyone is free they must be a proper person.

 

[ATM]

The Gun Control Debate, by Charles Heller

Background checks are a placebo, a useless "feel good" drug, to placate the citizens, and make them think that we are prohibiting criminals and lunatics from getting guns. People in their right minds, understand that criminals do not obey laws, ergo the designation, "criminal".

Most people don't use their minds at all in proposing such restrictions, let alone their "right" ones.

 

[level0]

​
What is the percentage of guns used in crimes that were acquired by a felon who could not pass a background check, from a private seller at a gun show? What is the source and how was the data gathered?

Surely no one would make this statement without actually having a reliable source.

I am anxiously waiting to see his answer to this as well, although I'm sure he will ignore it because he has no evidence. Please jaybird, provide us with some evidence that supports your claim.

One wonders if the jaybird has flown the coop. Many here still wait for said sources and statistics. Plenty of supporting links in this thread point to sources outside of gun shows and LGS as the overwhelming source for ill gotten weapons. Surely jaybird will fly in and support his claim with the facts that were inadvertently missing from his OP.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Bump for jaybird. We anxiously await your evidence for your statements, or you can continue to ramble lies.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Bump for jaybird. We anxiously await your evidence for your statements, or you can continue to ramble lies.

If I was [sic] a felon...maybe he really was a felon and got rolled up after starting this thread.

 

[darinb]

This is why I at least ask to see and write some something up when selling or trading. Its just not worth the risk.

 

[Bunnykid68]

This is why I at least ask to see and write some something up when selling or trading. Its just not worth the risk.

I never do, it's just not worth the risk of the transaction ending up in a database somewhere

 

[cbhausen]

Shaking my head... My typing fingers are tongue-tied.

 

[Hohn]

I have no problem with background checks, just as long as everyone understands its not stopping crime. Its just making the criminals find other methods. I mean, if there were no background checks, all the local gunshops would be selling guns to people that are gonna use them for evil. I dont really like that idea.
NICS makes it unlikely that a criminal will stop into your favorite gun shop and walk out with his new hipoint, to go pop someone, thats all. It doesnt even come close to stopping them from getting guns, it just makes them have to do it illegally, the way they do it now.

Remember, if they were to ban all guns tomorrow, and have "mr and Mrs America turn them in" they will disarm every law abiding citizen who complies, incriminate the ones who dont, and the real bad guys will still have their guns, that were illegal and untraceable to begin with.

Gun control doesn't work. Never has, never will. But politicians will not let facts and history get in the way.

So if utterly ineffective, the value of a BC is--what, exactly? A Dumbo feather for the sheeple??

 

[IndyDave1776]

So if utterly ineffective, the value of a BC is--what, exactly? A Dumbo feather for the sheeple??

More like a Dumbo feather with contact poison on it which attacks everyone who touches it in the course of engaging in a constitutionally protected activity.

 

[45fan]

Im sure that there are those that buy at gun shows, or from an individual that are considered banned from guns. That said, I know of at least one person (from my limited knowledge of gun sales at stores) that has purchased, and passed the background check numerous times over the course of a few months that should not have. I know this because eventually the BG check red flagged, and the FBI evidently did some backup research on the subject. When they saw that he had purchased several guns, all with a "proceed" on the 4472, they approached the individual, and told him to return the guns to the store from which they were purchased. I wouldnt think its too much of a stretch to think that this is not the only time this has happened, and probably a felon that gets away with it might not make multiple purchases that raise the red flag this fellow did.

How many have slipped through the cracks? As bad as it sounds, I dont think guns in the hands of many felons is a big issue. The big problem is guns used in crimes. Stiffer penalties for that would probably be a more effective answer to the gun violence issues that some are crying for action against.

 

[jaybird_123]

Ok, first off, stop coming down on my ass! Second, I have no statistics. However, just by following the news, I assume that GUNS were not stolen because it was not reported as such. So, if they are not stolen, then, to my assumption, they are being bought at gun shows because, IF I WAS A FELON, that is sure as hell how I get guns. Use your damn heads and think about it, how else is it going to be so easy for felons to get guns? Get off your "background check" paranoia wise up for a change. And once again, I`M NOT FOR GUN CONTROL, so get off my ass!