I just luv gubmint

[firecadet613]

What if we didn't? What if we didn't allow that? What if we actually held corporations feet to the fire like we do old people?

Nah, can't do that. Corporations donate more money back to politicians.

Corporations don't pay taxes...

If you start a new tax across an entire industry, you've just F'd the lower income consumer as they'll now have to pay more for those products...corporations don't pay taxes - the consumers do.

 

[bobzilla]

How do they not have direct control over our food supply now? Which industries in this country do people actually believe the government does not have control over? The government controls everything in this country and in near every situation the wellbeing of corporations is prioritized over that of citizens.

I'm going to have to stop trying to participate in these conversations. I no longer possess the ability to look at everything in a vacuum and justify ******** policies to keep the status quo.

so what you're telling me is hte gov owns the land, pays the peopel to produce it, provides the shipping, the processing and the final selling of the product? I would love to see some evidence of this because if that were true our .gov would have to employ 2/3 of the country.

 

[Ingomike]

Corporations don't pay taxes...

If you start a new tax across an entire industry, you've just F'd the lower income consumer as they'll now have to pay more for those products...corporations don't pay taxes - the consumers do.

I can’t imagine how that would work? Did you know landlords pay property tax and since the landlord pays it the tenants don’t?

 

[phylodog]

so what you're telling me is hte gov owns the land, pays the peopel to produce it, provides the shipping, the processing and the final selling of the product? I would love to see some evidence of this because if that were true our .gov would have to employ 2/3 of the country.

Yes. Ultimately the government owns the land. The government owns everything as ultimately the government can take everything.

But that's not what I said.

I said the government controls everything. Government controls which land can be used for farming, which vehicles are allowed to be used, what fuel they are allowed to consume, which roads are authorized for use in transporting the food and absolutely controls pricing.

USDA to Begin Issuing $1.75 Billion to Agricultural Producers Through Critical Emergency Relief Programs

WASHINGTON, Sept. 27, 2023 – The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) today announced that it will begin issuing more than $1.75 billion in emergency relief payments to eligible farmers and livestock producers. These much-needed payments are helping farming and ranching operations recover...

www.usda.gov

How many private citizens must be taxed out of existece to support this?

 

[phylodog]

I can’t imagine how that would work? Did you know landlords pay property tax and since the landlord pays it the tenants don’t?

Keep trying to sell yourself that new math hero.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I was involved in a discussion about animal control issues a while ago, particularly about stray dogs. There was a lot of talk about the problem and a lot of talk about possible solutions, and one person said "The thing is, if we were the kind of society/culture that had the ability to solve the problem, then we wouldn't have had it in the first place."

 

[firecadet613]

I can’t imagine how that would work? Did you know landlords pay property tax and since the landlord pays it the tenants don’t?

Oh the things we learn on INGO...

 

[phylodog]

Corporations don't pay taxes...

If you start a new tax across an entire industry, you've just F'd the lower income consumer as they'll now have to pay more for those products...corporations don't pay taxes - the consumers do.

Yet we have nothing here but people lining up to maintain such a "fair" system.

Corporations don't pay taxes. Corporations rake in trillions of dollars and don't pay taxes but it's perfectly acceptable to take property from a private citizen for not paying for the right to own said property. Feels like I'm being gaslighted here for not finding this to be an ideal situation which could not possibly be improved upon.

 

[Ingomike]

Keep trying to sell yourself that new math hero.

Renting a $300,000 house

Landlord:

Mortgage P&I= $1400
Insurance= $200
Property Tax= $500. (Would be $250 with a homestead deduction.)
Total Payment= $2100

Renter:

Pays $2300 per month.

So the question is who pays the landlord costs? There is only one entity that is putting in cash, the tenant, the landlord collects money from the tenant, pays the mortgage, taxes, and insurance, and keeps $200 in their pocket.

 

[Ingomike]

Yet we have nothing here but people lining up to maintain such a "fair" system.

Corporations don't pay taxes. Corporations rake in trillions of dollars and don't pay taxes but it's perfectly acceptable to take property from a private citizen for not paying for the right to own said property. Feels like I'm being gaslighted here for not finding this to be an ideal situation which could not possibly be improved upon.

So you are good with your kids paying exorbitant taxes while trying to start their lives so your parents don’t have to pay property tax?

 

[phylodog]

Renting a $300,000 house

Landlord:

Mortgage P&I= $1400
Insurance= $200
Property Tax= $500. (Would be $250 with a homestead deduction.)
Total Payment= $2100

Renter:

Pays $2300 per month.

So the question is who pays the landlord costs? There is only one entity that is putting in cash, the tenant, the landlord collects money from the tenant, pays the mortgage, taxes, and insurance, and keeps $200 in their pocket.

The landlord bought the $300,000 house.
The landlord is the only one responsible for the taxes.
The landlord is the only one who loses property if the taxes aren't paid.
If there is no tenant to pay rent, the taxes are still due.

It's a business. You don't get to claim credit for paying the farmer's property taxes because you ate some of his corn.

 

[bobzilla]

Yet we have nothing here but people lining up to maintain such a "fair" system.

Stop. Please, just stop. Literally everyone has said property taxes are ******** and need to go, but we also need to figure out how to cover those programs that are covered by it. NOT A SINGLE *** **** PERSON is "lining up to support the current program". Not. A. Single. One. So take that strawman and go burn it because that ain't gonna fly.
Now, you want to actually discuss, fine. But stop throwing out false accusations.

 

[phylodog]

So you are good with your kids paying exorbitant taxes while trying to start their lives so your parents don’t have to pay property tax?

You just love coming up with this type of ******** argument. When you do this, you are essentially arguing with yourself.

I don't think anyone should be paying exorbitant taxes. I don't think we've fallen short of sufficiently taxing the citizens of this country. I find our government to be inefficient, bloated, wasteful and increasingly ineffective every year. I don't support maintaining our system of sucking the life out of citizens to feed the machine.

 

[Ingomike]

The landlord bought the $300,000 house.
The landlord is the only one responsible for the taxes.
The landlord is the only one who loses property if the taxes aren't paid.
If there is no tenant to pay rent, the taxes are still due.

It's a business. You don't get to claim credit for paying the farmer's property taxes because you ate some of his corn.

Yes, I do pay the taxes for the farmer! Is not the cost of all the farmers taxes not included in the price he sells for? If the farmers taxes go up wouldn’t he raise the price to cover the tax increase?

I guarantee you if the property tax goes up, the rent goes up…

 

[phylodog]

Yes, I do pay the taxes for the farmer! Is not the cost of all the farmers taxes not included in the price he sells for? If the farmers taxes go up wouldn’t he raise the price to cover the tax increase?

I guarantee you if the property tax goes up, the rent goes up…

Lol

 

[Ingomike]

You just love coming up with this type of ******** argument. When you do this, you are essentially arguing with yourself.

I don't think anyone should be paying exorbitant taxes. I don't think we've fallen short of sufficiently taxing the citizens of this country. I find our government to be inefficient, bloated, wasteful and increasingly ineffective every year. I don't support maintaining our system of sucking the life out of citizens to feed the machine.

As Bob said we all agree on the tax situation but some of us can get out of utopian dream and discuss reality.

I have asked repeatedly in this thread for solutions and it is such a tough issue not one poster has offered a suggestion as to who and how the property services should be funded if the property tax was eliminated.

As the conditions on the ground are now, if the property tax is eliminated there will for sure be winners and losers. Winners are easy to identify, property owners that pay no tax at all on the property. Like you or your parents.

Losers are whoever the tax is shifted to. If that primarily is shifted to sales tax, then your kids trying to build their lives and possibly buy their own property will be taxed to the max to every time they make a purchase limiting their ability to save to buy.

Property taxes in Indiana are not exorbitant compared to the rest of the country and properties DO receive direct property benefits, who should pay for those benefits?

 

[phylodog]

Stop. Please, just stop. Literally everyone has said property taxes are ******** and need to go, but we also need to figure out how to cover those programs that are covered by it. NOT A SINGLE *** **** PERSON is "lining up to support the current program". Not. A. Single. One. So take that strawman and go burn it because that ain't gonna fly.
Now, you want to actually discuss, fine. But stop throwing out false accusations.

Yeah, I'll stop. False accusations my ass. Pages of comments defending the current system or making excuses why it couldn't possibly be changed.

Last post in this one. I bought my property 5.5 years ago, had an elderly couple behind me and another across the road. Good, God fearing, working class people. One bought their property 50 years ago and the other more than 40. They both built their own modest homes on their land and raised their families. Both men were fortunate enough to live to retirement and I was fortunate enough to know them.

Neighbor behind me passed 18 months ago. He bought and paid for that land and built that house, his wife should have been able to finish out her days there but since she wasn't able to work as a greeter for Walmart (or some other highly needed skill within society) and continue to produce for the government she was forced to sell.

Neighbor across the road is looking at the same thing happening very soon as he isn't doing well.

This pisses me off. It's wrong and it shouldn't happen in a "free" country. There are thousands of different taxes in this country, saying this cannot be fixed is ridiculous. - out

 

[Ingomike]

Yeah, I'll stop. False accusations my ass. Pages of comments defending the current system or making excuses why it couldn't possibly be changed.

Last post in this one. I bought my property 5.5 years ago, had an elderly couple behind me and another across the road. Good, God fearing, working class people. One bought their property 50 years ago and the other more than 40. They both built their own modest homes on their land and raised their families. Both men were fortunate enough to live to retirement and I was fortunate enough to know them.

Neighbor behind me passed 18 months ago. He bought and paid for that land and built that house, his wife should have been able to finish out her days there but since she wasn't able to work as a greeter for Walmart (or some other highly needed skill within society) and continue to produce for the government she was forced to sell.

Neighbor across the road is looking at the same thing happening very soon as he isn't doing well.

This pisses me off. It's wrong and it shouldn't happen in a "free" country. There are thousands of different taxes in this country, saying this cannot be fixed is ridiculous. - out

Oh great passionate one, please regale us with your financial wisdom. Who should pay for the property services these folks receive? I am not without sympathy for your neighbors but who should pay for their property services?

I just had a great idea, we can charge landlords a 100% tax since we all know landlords pay their taxes out of the goodness of their hearts and don’t just pass them on to the tenants, it is a win win…

 

[bobzilla]

Yeah, I'll stop. False accusations my ass. Pages of comments defending the current system or making excuses why it couldn't possibly be changed.

Last post in this one. I bought my property 5.5 years ago, had an elderly couple behind me and another across the road. Good, God fearing, working class people. One bought their property 50 years ago and the other more than 40. They both built their own modest homes on their land and raised their families. Both men were fortunate enough to live to retirement and I was fortunate enough to know them.

Neighbor behind me passed 18 months ago. He bought and paid for that land and built that house, his wife should have been able to finish out her days there but since she wasn't able to work as a greeter for Walmart (or some other highly needed skill within society) and continue to produce for the government she was forced to sell.

Neighbor across the road is looking at the same thing happening very soon as he isn't doing well.

This pisses me off. It's wrong and it shouldn't happen in a "free" country. There are thousands of different taxes in this country, saying this cannot be fixed is ridiculous. - out

Not making excuses, pointing out issues with just doing away with it completely. But in your warped mind, if we don't agree with you we are for taxes and kicking old people to the curb or some other bs strawman you concoct. You cannot discuss this as a reasonable adult so maybe you should step out.

 

[jamil]

I went up and made my house payment (property taxes) to the county today. Of course even though the city took part of my property last year, my bill went up again this year. But of course, they say you are paying for last year, so wait for the bill next year to show the decrease. Anyone taking odds on that.

So I ask about taking my wife's name off the property. Oh, different department, so I go there. Well, for $25 and an original death certificate, they will have her name taken off the bill, but that won't change the property. For that, I need to hire a lawyer and have a new deed drawn up. You just have to love our government in action.

Government: Oh you pesky white boomer. Government isn’t there for your convenience. You are there to pay for government. Except. We’ve discovered perpetually increasing debt. We don’t need you anymore. You’re really more of a bother than anything. So why don’t you sod off to some other department and become their annoyance.