Home Defense Shotguns

[irishfan]

I think a bigger problem than short stroking a shotgun during a home defense situation would be falling down the steps or banging againsy walls because the majority of shotgun "training" is dedicated only to keeping the gun running and shooting enough ammo so you wade through hulls on your way off the range.- George

Running into a wall is a fear of mine with the shotgun because I have two sharp turns in a narrow hallway from my bedroom to get to the living room. I have to lower the shotgun and raise it again to get around the turns which is why I am thinking of using my pistol as primary home defense and leaving the shotgun in the bedroom for the GF.

Or give her the pistol and let her check on the noise while me and the shotty stay in the nice safe bedroom

 

[Cemetery-man]

The Judge, IMO, is not a very good SD weapon. Try firing one at a target wrapped in a heavy jacket at 15 ft. The lack of penetration of birdshot out of a 3" barrel cuts down the target to only the head. Of course, a facefull of #6's at 3 ft will do the job, I'm sure. But if you have to take a shot through any kind of cover, they come up pretty short.

That's true if someones crazy enough to load a SD weapon with birdshot? personally, I save those loads for the Quail.

On the other hand, now shoot someone at 3 ft with 20 rounds of 00 buck or 5 slugs and I bet a paycheck they aren't going to be dining and dancing with your money that night.

 

[BillD]

That's true if someones crazy enough to load a SD weapon with birdshot? personally, I save those loads for the Quail.

On the other hand, now shoot someone at 3 ft with 20 rounds of 00 buck or 5 slugs and I bet a paycheck they aren't going to be dining and dancing with your money that night.

As would emptying the cylinder of a .357 mag. Just about everything works at 3 ft. But if you have to limit your range to allow for the buckshot to penetrate (ever check penetration and spread at 30 ft?) why would someone choose that weapon? Why would I pick a weapon that works at 3 ft or 10 ft when I can pick a weapon that has twice as much ammo, is smaller and works out to 50 yds?

There are better loadings in .45acp, .357 mag, 9mm, 40 or .45 Colt, among many others.

I've never figured out the attraction to a .410 handgun for SD. The gun is bigger than it needs to be for HD and especially for carry, the cylinder is huge to allow for the long shot shells and the terminal capabilities are less than good SD loadings in many other calibers.

But, it is a novelty and that appeals to some. Each to their own. I'd much rather have a gun with more ammo capacity that is much easier to reload.

 

[VUPDblue]

I think a bigger problem than short stroking a shotgun during a home defense situation would be falling down the steps or banging againsy walls because the majority of shotgun "training" is dedicated only to keeping the gun running and shooting enough ammo so you wade through hulls on your way off the range.- George

I know this can be the case sometimes. Put a class together George, I'll be the first one to sign up! I loves me some shotgun training!

 

[DocIndy]

Only one other member uses a Winchester???? Mine is a 1300 black shadow deer gun that I have slightly modified for coyote duty and home defense. Speedfeed buttstock with pistolgrip and shell holders and the sidesaddle. Barrel was changed from fully rifled deer barrel to a 18" smoothbore deer/turkey barrel with fiberoptic rifle sights and a dead coyote choke tube. My coyote load of choice is Winchester 3" #4 buck....with 41 pellets. Works very well and inside the house with just me, the misses and the twin chocolate labs....the 3" #4 load is guaranteed to ruin a bad guys day. One day I'll add a surefire foreend.

 

[451_Detonics]

I'll stick with a 12 gauge...10+1 plus another 4 in the stock...my 1100 does everything I need to do with a shotgun...

Plus I always have the HK Benelli 121 for backup...

 

[rhart]

Im in the process of converting my Benelli Super Black Eagle. I also have a mossberg with a pistol grip. I dont like the pistol grip and am looking fo a better full stock. I also dont like the flimsy folders, I want a full studry stock for mine.

 

[451_Detonics]

I have spent so much time shooting an FN/FAL and various AR's the pistol grip buttstock feel natural to me. On a 1100 you have the full length tube so it is plenty strong. The Speedfeed stock is also well in line with the recoil impulse and muzzle climb is minimal. I do use low recoil RIO buck in it and with a straight rifled barrel it patterns amazingly well.

 

[Agan_08]

DocIndy - Winchester shotguns are great ! This particular gun throws a slug better than anything with a smooth bore I've seen. It has taken many deer in its day.

 

[Lanser]

A concern that should be addressed would be choice of ammo, you don't want to worry about inflicting damage to the neighbors interior.

As long as his house has a brick exterior, that shouldn't be a problem, according to the results from TheBoxOTruth.com -- interior walls, however, do squat.

 

[Juggernaut]

My Bedside buddy!

 

[Cemetery-man]

As would emptying the cylinder of a .357 mag. Just about everything works at 3 ft. But if you have to limit your range to allow for the buckshot to penetrate (ever check penetration and spread at 30 ft?) why would someone choose that weapon? Why would I pick a weapon that works at 3 ft or 10 ft when I can pick a weapon that has twice as much ammo, is smaller and works out to 50 yds?

30 and 50 ft distances are not relevant in home SD. We're talking closer to 6ft or less. Since the Judge is used for home defense the longest distance in my house would be less than 10ft. I can say that in the heat of the moment, in the dark and at that short of a distance I would rather throw 4, lethal 9mm size projectiles with each trigger pull than just 1. And then take that times 5, that's 20 bullets. Much more than any of my other hanguns can hold.

Everyone has their favorite weapon, manuf, caliber of choice that they believe is better than anything else and when something new or innovative comes along is almost always perceived to be worthless until it proves itself. IMO the Judge falls into this category and when viewed practically for its designed purpose and not as a long range hunting weapon it will indeed prove itself.

The .380 was always once viewed as worthless for SD also but now try to find ammo and look at the numbers and most will agree that it also proved its place in the the SD community.

 

[kingnereli]

30 and 50 ft distances are not relevant in home SD. We're talking closer to 6ft or less. Since the Judge is used for home defense the longest distance in my house would be less than 10ft. I can say that in the heat of the moment, in the dark and at that short of a distance I would rather throw 4, lethal 9mm size projectiles with each trigger pull than just 1. And then take that times 5, that's 20 bullets. Much more than any of my other hanguns can hold.

Everyone has their favorite weapon, manuf, caliber of choice that they believe is better than anything else and when something new or innovative comes along is almost always perceived to be worthless until it proves itself. IMO the Judge falls into this category and when viewed practically for its designed purpose and not as a long range hunting weapon it will indeed prove itself.

The .380 was always once viewed as worthless for SD also but now try to find ammo and look at the numbers and most will agree that it also proved its place in the the SD community.

The problem is that the judge isn't new or innovative. It's a .410 which is old and has never been considered good for self defense. ballistic tests and life experience consistently confirm it. I understand if people like the judge for its novelty, but if you use one for self defense you need to be willing to admit that it just may not do the job.

Your use of .380 as an example is very fitting. People don't carry .380 because it has proven itself as a great man stopper. They carry it because the guns chambered in .380 are often very small, light and easy to carry. Occasion when nothing else will do it is better then nothing.

 

[451_Detonics]

I would have a tough time saying that the 380 has proven it's place in the SD community, at least among knowledgeable folks. EWhat it has proven is even tho this is a lifesaving tool a large number of people will buy the cheapest tool they can. There are 9mm's as small as the 380's, why don't they sell as well? Because they are more expensive. Very few people who ccw are firearms professionals, those who are all say the same thing...a 380 is better than a larger caliber left at home but you would be better off learning to carry the larger caliber.

As for the Judge...I have seen 5 being used by folks at our range...not one has made it past 200 rounds before breaking. I'll pass.

 

[irishfan]

The judge looks awesome but I honestly have wondered how well the pistol would hold up to the .410? I am not judging the weapon or Taurus as I own a Taurus but I do wonder how it handles abuse.

 

[BillD]

30 and 50 ft distances are not relevant in home SD. We're talking closer to 6ft or less. Since the Judge is used for home defense the longest distance in my house would be less than 10ft. I can say that in the heat of the moment, in the dark and at that short of a distance I would rather throw 4, lethal 9mm size projectiles with each trigger pull than just 1. And then take that times 5, that's 20 bullets. Much more than any of my other hanguns can hold.

Everyone has their favorite weapon, manuf, caliber of choice that they believe is better than anything else and when something new or innovative comes along is almost always perceived to be worthless until it proves itself. IMO the Judge falls into this category and when viewed practically for its designed purpose and not as a long range hunting weapon it will indeed prove itself.

The .380 was always once viewed as worthless for SD also but now try to find ammo and look at the numbers and most will agree that it also proved its place in the the SD community.

My house is small and it's 11 yards from my bedroom door, down the hallway to the living room wall. From what I've seen from Judges, you may not get all of your hits on target at that range. And what makes you think you are getting more than one shot?

IMO, the .380 is fairly worthless as a SD round. I start at .38 Spec +P or 9mm for SD. Folks carry them because they are easy to carry and a 9mm that size has a good amount of recoil. It's better than a sharp stick, unless it's a broom handle and you run it all the way through the BG.

I'm not trying to tell anyone which gun to pick. If the Judge gives you the warm fuzzies by all means, use it. Just test it.

Myself, I'll take a .357 Mag N frame or a 1911 in .45ACP for my nightstand gun and the 12 ga 870 in the closet, if I have time to get it. IMO, HD is not a game to see what is the minimum gun that will work. HD is the time for serious overkill. This is your family's lives we are discussing.


I sincerely hope none of us ever have to find out if our choices and ourselves are up to the task.

 

[caddywhompus]

This.

IMO, HD is not a game to see what is the minimum gun that will work. HD is the time for serious overkill.

You don't have to tote that heavy gun (whatever you choose) all day, so why not pick a larger caliber handgun or a shotty?

 

[55spartan]

Mossy 500 with a speed feed stock and you are set

 

[mercop]

Handling a shotgun for home defense is a bigger issue than shooting it for home defense. I used a Moss 590 with a 20 in barrel on patrol and SWAT for years. Even cleared lots of crack head hotel rooms with it. I will try to put up some pics of how to make the gun "smaller ".

The big thing is that with a pistol you usually want to be arms distance off your cover and most people work with a pistol the most. With a long gun you need to be more off your cover. Another problem is that due to length of barrel when you cover down with a shotgun tunnel vision is in increased.. Because of this students trip ofter things that are a few feet in front of them. You kinda lose depth perception, that is a buzz kill at the top of stairs- George

 

[Cemetery-man]

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-6/200961143754-thejudgerules.pdf