HOLY CRAP! INTENSE police standoff and shooting!

[g00n24]

Somewhat GRAPHIC!VIDEO: Family Releases Video of Man Being Killed by Fort Bend Officer (graphic) | Ben Swann Truth In Media

Look in this forum and general firearms discussion...didn't see this posted so sorry if dupe.

Video of police standoff with troubled youth threatening suicide. Very intense ending and very sad it had to end the way it did. Personally I feel the officer showed great restraint with the knife being in play the whole time. He kept trying to have the other officers taze the guy too. Unfortunately at the end he was left with no other option IMO.

As I'm sure some will bring up. The officer shot 11 (from what I counted) shots. The last 6 or so appeared to be at a downward angle most likely from the suspect being on the ground. However you can't really see in the video where he was when being hit. I'm wondering if anything will happen to the officer for shooting so many rounds at what appeared to be a suspect on the ground. I am going to hold back judgement on that part of the video since it is impossible to tell if the suspect still was waiving the knife around...could have been crawling at him with it...who knows.

 

[Darral27]

I am so tired of watching sad videos I am not going to bother. The reason for my comment is you say the boy is threatening suicide, so how is better for the cop to kill him? Why not just keep him confined and let him do it himself? As I said I did not and will not watch so if I am off base let me know. I just wonder every time I read about somebody wanting to commit suicide and a cop kills them why they were not just left to their own devices in the first place.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I don't know what else could have been done.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I am so tired of watching sad videos I am not going to bother. The reason for my comment is you say the boy is threatening suicide, so how is better for the cop to kill him? Why not just keep him confined and let him do it himself? As I said I did not and will not watch so if I am off base let me know. I just wonder every time I read about somebody wanting to commit suicide and a cop kills them why they were not just left to their own devices in the first place.

I suicidal person is not just dangerous to themselves ONLY. Would you have expected the cops to wait until he could no longer stay awake? they WERE trying to help, he came at them with a knife.

 

[Darral27]

I suicidal person is not just dangerous to themselves ONLY. Would you have expected the cops to wait until he could no longer stay awake? they WERE trying to help, he came at them with a knife.

If you read my post I did not watch the video. Just asking a question. Also in my post I said if I am off base let me know. I read the op, that is all. Thought I was clear about that. Maybe I should have made it bold and red.

 

[45fan]

Sad that he died, unfortunate that the officer was the one who did it. But when confronted with the choice of being stabbed by someone (Crazy or otherwise) and possibly being killed, I cant say that the officers actions were any different than what my own would have been.

As far as round count, my guess would be that the officer was a bit jacked up on adrenaline, and was not fully aware that he fired that many shots. Its never good to see someone loose a life, but at least it was someone that was already intent on it, and not someone just trying to do their job.

 

[g00n24]

Sad that he died, unfortunate that the officer was the one who did it. But when confronted with the choice of being stabbed by someone (Crazy or otherwise) and possibly being killed, I cant say that the officers actions were any different than what my own would have been.

As far as round count, my guess would be that the officer was a bit jacked up on adrenaline, and was not fully aware that he fired that many shots. Its never good to see someone loose a life, but at least it was someone that was already intent on it, and not someone just trying to do their job.

Yeah, pretty much my thoughts exactly. Really sucks for the LEO here. He was obviously upset about what he had to do.

 

[88GT]

I don't know what else could have been done.

Certainly not with LE trying to solve the problem. Not a slam on LE, but LEOs aren't equipped to stop a suicide with anything other than brute force. I don't see much point in intervention if the individual is going to end up dead one way or the other.

 

[Sgtusmc]

Really torn by a few things here. First and foremost is that the cop did his job to the best of his abilities and training. Within that statement lie the faults in ethics and procedure.

1. Dealing with suicidal people

There are several types of suicidal people. Some just want to be left alone to their devices and go out silently and without drama. Others want to take others out with them. Then there are those who need a helping hand so to speak because they haven't the courage to complete the job of offing themselves.

2. Dealing with mentally ill people

Unfortunately, there's not a way to do an immediate assessment of what type of mental disability a first responder is dealing with. Time is needed which doesn't always exist. In this situation, time WAS available. The guy was cordoned off from hurting others, his weapon was a knife (meaning he wasn't able to shoot through walls) and he hadn't killed himself yet (meaning it might have been a cry for help).

So in a nutshell, and in my opinion, this event didn't have to happen as it did. The person was enclosed in a space where he could only hurt himself. The cops tried pushing authority and reason on a mentally ill and suicidal person. These things didn't seem like they were taken into account. They seemed to be more after immediate compliance in a situation where reasonable compliance was probably not within immediate probability of happening due to the variables. They seemed to be in too much of a hurry to bring the situation to a conclusion. The pounding and kicking of the door did nothing but instigate the guy and the cop shouldn't have gone into the restroom until the person visually came to agree to drop the knife and accept some help.

Now of course, we only see a few minutes of the culmination of the event, but it still was approached wrong in my opinion.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The reason for my comment is you say the boy is threatening suicide, so how is better for the cop to kill him? Why not just keep him confined and let him do it himself?

Because in the majority of instances you can save the person. There are some who will force you to kill them, or who will kill themselves regardless. That's a minority, though, and smaller than most laypeople imagine. Think of suicidal tendencies as a roller coaster shaped wave. Only at the peaks will someone actually take their own life. If you can keep them safe long enough for that peak to pass, they will not kill themselves.

I can tell you of successes where the person gets the help they need and then goes on to live a normal life, I can tell you of "draws" where the person doesn't kill themselves but continues to ride that roller coaster over and over, but unfortunately I can also tell you of the failures. The thing you have to remember is the failures would have died regardless, but you can make a difference in the wins and the draws.

This, of course, does not include the folks who aren't really serious about being suicidal but just want to get back at mommy/daddy/hubby/adult children/whatever. They have issues of their own, but would have survived regardless of any intervention.

 

[freekforge]

It kinda ticks me off reading the article. I saw an officer that didn't want to kill him and attempted to save his life by using an EDW he used his training and the tools he had at hand to try and save a life and the family wants to pitch a fit. "my son did not deserve 11 shots" ok did he deserve to be cut up? Having dealt with suicidal people in the past I cant say I would have behaved any different if I were in the officers shoes.

Suicidal people dont care anymore if they are willing to take their life there is a decent chance they wont mind taking a few more. In criminal justice i was told the two most dangerous people you'll ever meet are suicidal people and naked people.

 

[Mark 1911]

Didn't watch the video but did read the article. The presence of the police officer only accelerated the situation toward a tragic ending. I don't know how it could have been handled any differently by the officer at the end, he just shouldn't have been there to begin with.

 

[Motorhead302]

i read the article and some comments and then felt i needed to see the video for some clarification. all the officers seemed really intent on NOT having to hurt him, and he kept refusing to drop the knife, after almost 4 full minutes of being told to.

when he got up again, it really did look to me like he tripped coming out of the tub. neither of his feet were in front of him, and he was already on the way to the ground before the officer fired the first shot. i think the officer saw him moving forward that quickly, and misinterpreted the movement as an aggressive approach.

altogether a very sad outcome.

the only real question i have, which pertains to the family suing, is this: did they ask the officer to forcibly remove him from the bathroom? it seems if you ask an armed man to force his way into a small room with someone holding a knife, you're inviting the possibility of a shooting.

 

[ModernGunner]

Interesting that the family states they 'forgive' the Officer, but sure aren't hesitating to sue, eh? It would appear $$$ is the motivator in this particular instance.

Don't know if the guy was or was not suicidal or crazy. If he truly was, 'rationalization' isn't likely to work, as it didn't in this case. If he isn't, then 'rationalization' obviously didn't work in this case.

As far as being shot (apparently, since we only hear 'bangs', not seeing actual hits) '11 times', I'd ask, "Well, how many times SHOULD he have been shot?" The 'round count' thing is a ludicrous and ridiculous 'argument' in all but the most rare instances, and based on that clip, this was not one of those instances. Nature of a gun fight situation.

It's unfortunate the perpetrator chose this course of action, but that was HIS choice. It was ALSO the choice of the family to call 9/11, as they should have.

Unfortunate, but justifiable.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Didn't watch the video but did read the article. The presence of the police officer only accelerated the situation toward a tragic ending. I don't know how it could have been handled any differently by the officer at the end, he just shouldn't have been there to begin with.

So how should the situation have been resolved?

 

[Destro]

I love all the "didn't watch the video" comments....

 

[STEEL CORE]

If anything, the public gets to see the reality of our nations finest, and what they deal with every day. The outcome was sad, we all consider a coulda/woulda/shoulda review of what we might do. but its reality folks, played out.

 

[findingZzero]

Really torn by a few things here. First and foremost is that the cop did his job to the best of his abilities and training. Within that statement lie the faults in ethics and procedure.

1. Dealing with suicidal people

There are several types of suicidal people. Some just want to be left alone to their devices and go out silently and without drama. Others want to take others out with them. Then there are those who need a helping hand so to speak because they haven't the courage to complete the job of offing themselves.

2. Dealing with mentally ill people

Unfortunately, there's not a way to do an immediate assessment of what type of mental disability a first responder is dealing with. Time is needed which doesn't always exist. In this situation, time WAS available. The guy was cordoned off from hurting others, his weapon was a knife (meaning he wasn't able to shoot through walls) and he hadn't killed himself yet (meaning it might have been a cry for help).

So in a nutshell, and in my opinion, this event didn't have to happen as it did. The person was enclosed in a space where he could only hurt himself. The cops tried pushing authority and reason on a mentally ill and suicidal person. These things didn't seem like they were taken into account. They seemed to be more after immediate compliance in a situation where reasonable compliance was probably not within immediate probability of happening due to the variables. They seemed to be in too much of a hurry to bring the situation to a conclusion. The pounding and kicking of the door did nothing but instigate the guy and the cop shouldn't have gone into the restroom until the person visually came to agree to drop the knife and accept some help.

Now of course, we only see a few minutes of the culmination of the event, but it still was approached wrong in my opinion.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS (very nicely put)^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There needs to be a better team prepared to deal with this. Or at least an advisor with some training in the field of extreme stress. With all that yelling going on, something's gonna crack. Years ago my wife got a call in the middle of the night from a suicidal patient. She woke me and asked me to call the police while she tried to talk the patient down, which fortunately she was able to do. Of course those were resources available to someone with means. LEO's need to have those resources available to them. Possibly on a pro bono/ volunteer basis.

 

[88GT]

i read the article and some comments and then felt i needed to see the video for some clarification. all the officers seemed really intent on NOT having to hurt him, and he kept refusing to drop the knife, after almost 4 full minutes of being told to.

when he got up again, it really did look to me like he tripped coming out of the tub. neither of his feet were in front of him, and he was already on the way to the ground before the officer fired the first shot. i think the officer saw him moving forward that quickly, and misinterpreted the movement as an aggressive approach.

altogether a very sad outcome.

the only real question i have, which pertains to the family suing, is this: did they ask the officer to forcibly remove him from the bathroom? it seems if you ask an armed man to force his way into a small room with someone holding a knife, you're inviting the possibility of a shooting.

Doubtful. They didn't want LE involved in the first place. And it would be my guess that once LE arrived, they felt that they had little to no say in how things were handled. I can easily see a LEO ignoring family members or refusing to listen to their advice/knowledge.

Interesting that the family states they 'forgive' the Officer, but sure aren't hesitating to sue, eh? It would appear $$$ is the motivator in this particular instance.

Don't know if the guy was or was not suicidal or crazy. If he truly was, 'rationalization' isn't likely to work, as it didn't in this case. If he isn't, then 'rationalization' obviously didn't work in this case.

As far as being shot (apparently, since we only hear 'bangs', not seeing actual hits) '11 times', I'd ask, "Well, how many times SHOULD he have been shot?" The 'round count' thing is a ludicrous and ridiculous 'argument' in all but the most rare instances, and based on that clip, this was not one of those instances. Nature of a gun fight situation.

It's unfortunate the perpetrator chose this course of action, but that was HIS choice. It was ALSO the choice of the family to call 9/11, as they should have.

Unfortunate, but justifiable.

He was not a perp. And if he truly was mentally ill, he didn't choose it rationally like the rest of us would.

It was not their first choice to call 9-1-1, and, no, I don't believe they should have.

 

[Darral27]

I love all the "didn't watch the video" comments....

All of us do not enjoy watching people die. It is possible to read about something and have a valid question or appropriate input.