Hold the officers personally responsible!

[GunnerDan]

I say that the officers involved should be held personally responsible for this kidnapping and any of the other host of laws they broke. They should be fired, jailed and their pensions used to pay this guys lawsuit.

Man sues Colorado Springs after wrongful open-carry arrest | News - Home

Gunner

 

[Trigger Time]

Even officers on here have bragged before that they are immune. If they faced charges it would certainly spark a change in the overall law enforcement bad attitude towards the citizens. Maybe the good cops would no longer have to cringe about rolling up with a hot head cop because they would be gone.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Bragged? Why don't you provide a link that proves it.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Bragged? Why don't you provide a link that proves it.

I recall no bragging or chest thumping either

 

[Jack Burton]

If the officers were mis-trained and mis-informed then I would hesitate to hold them at fault.

We had a case like this back in the Navy. A slam dunk case against one Marine that got another severely injured while doing a task. He was being court-martialed and a Reserve lawyer on board for a few weeks was handed his defense. Everyone knew he was guilty, he even admitted his actions caused the injury.

The reserve officer dug a little deeper than the ship wanted him to. Turns out the training supposedly provided in order to do the complex task was non-existent... training records were forged across several months and hundreds of people, sign-offs were forged with multiple signatures and officers, and the two Marines were simply doing what junior Marines often do... being gung ho about an assigned task without complaining that they had no clue as to how to go about it.

The Marine was cleared and as the reserve officer was heading back home other court martial charges were being prepared against the Training Officer and Executive Officer.

Again, if these officers were only doing what they were trained and explained to do, then those who did the inadequate training and preparation should be punished. The officers may or may not be at fault for other issues on the arrest, but when they are told by authorities "this is the law" they should be able to rely upon that.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Tagged to watch the video later.

The article did a pretty good job of displaying the situation.

 

[Robert Richardson]

So if I do something that I don't know is against the law, that is my problem. A LEO does it and it's not their fault? Who's fault is it that they don't know the law? I was always told that ignorance was no excuse.

 

[Kirkd]

Should be a criminal matter as well. Sounds like kidnapping and false inprisonment to me. Just saying...

 

[eatsnopaste]

So if I do something that I don't know is against the law, that is my problem. A LEO does it and it's not their fault? Who's fault is it that they don't know the law? I was always told that ignorance was no excuse.

"I was only following orders" has been an excuse for incompetents for quite a long time now.

 

[Bang-bang]

So if I do something that I don't know is against the law, that is my problem. A LEO does it and it's not their fault? Who's fault is it that they don't know the law? I was always told that ignorance was no excuse.

So true! This would also cost me my job,(code of conduct agreement with employer) but no biggie right, just deal with, it's no skin off their backs.

This would change my view of LEO's forever! We the people need protection from these low IQ's

 

[kjf48197]

If the officers were mis-trained and mis-informed then I would hesitate to hold them at fault.

We had a case like this back in the Navy. A slam dunk case against one Marine that got another severely injured while doing a task. He was being court-martialed and a Reserve lawyer on board for a few weeks was handed his defense. Everyone knew he was guilty, he even admitted his actions caused the injury.

The reserve officer dug a little deeper than the ship wanted him to. Turns out the training supposedly provided in order to do the complex task was non-existent... training records were forged across several months and hundreds of people, sign-offs were forged with multiple signatures and officers, and the two Marines were simply doing what junior Marines often do... being gung ho about an assigned task without complaining that they had no clue as to how to go about it.

The Marine was cleared and as the reserve officer was heading back home other court martial charges were being prepared against the Training Officer and Executive Officer.

Again, if these officers were only doing what they were trained and explained to do, then those who did the inadequate training and preparation should be punished. The officers may or may not be at fault for other issues on the arrest, but when they are told by authorities "this is the law" they should be able to rely upon that.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse....that is what they would tell you.

 

[Hemingway]

They ought to have been briefed when the law changed. And they should have had updated sheets.

The guy will easily win this lawsuit.

That being said, I'd gladly take a false arrest and a few hours in a lockup for a six figure payday. That'd be the most I've ever made in one day. Hey, I've been worse places for NO pay.

So, the guy's going to come out fine in the long run. Come to think of it, maybe that's the REAL reason you guy OC

 

[Jack Burton]

So if I do something that I don't know is against the law, that is my problem. A LEO does it and it's not their fault? Who's fault is it that they don't know the law? I was always told that ignorance was no excuse.

apples and oranges...

 

[Jack Burton]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse....that is what they would tell you.

Hang the young Marine, then...

But then again, "they" didn't quite do that.

 

[Bunnykid68]

apples and oranges...

You are right, it is apple and oranges. If I break a law that I do not know about I get in trouble, if a LEO enforces a law that does not exist against me I get in trouble, at least for a little while.

 

[Hogwylde]

Should be a criminal matter as well. Sounds like kidnapping and false inprisonment to me. Just saying...

In Indiana it's called "intimidation" and "criminal confinement". Since the officers were armed, they become felonies.

 

[in625shooter]

So if I do something that I don't know is against the law, that is my problem. A LEO does it and it's not their fault? Who's fault is it that they don't know the law? I was always told that ignorance was no excuse.

Each department has it's Policy on everything. When Officers stay within policy the Agency will cover any and all legal costs including civil judgments against the Officers since they acted "within the scope of their employment" If the policy was wrong etc then the department will rewrite how they handle that specific scenerio etc. Often times it comes down to ither a training issue or a legal issue. In both cases it's usually not the individual Officers fault if they were trained to handle it this way or that by.

If the Officers acted outside of policy or say were overzealous (and thats up to a jury to decide not a 2 min news story or paragragh) Then the Agency would most likely not cover them with any judgements in a civil award as well as any criminal wrong doing would be refered to the prosecutor.

When I started out in LE 27 years ago one of the old school chief's I had had a pretty good rule, "If you are not 100% sure on it don't try to enforce it" And that was one of the best bit of advice I ever got!

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Non-LEOs have good faith exemptions, too. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but acting in good faith in regards to your legal duties certainly is. We don't try doctors for murder if their mistake at a diagnosis results in a patient's death. We try to make the survivors whole, but we recognize its not a criminal matter.

It plays into charging decisions for non-legal-duty issues pretty often. John Doe tries to pay for his groceries with a forged $100 bill. Did he know it was a forgery? Or did he believe it was real and passed it in good faith? You will note how often the phrase "knowingly or intentionally" occurs in IC code. Its a gross oversimplification to say "cops get away with it but they'll tell me ignorance is no excuse", and furthers the "us vs them" mentality.

 

[in625shooter]

Non-LEOs have good faith exemptions, too. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but acting in good faith in regards to your legal duties certainly is. We don't try doctors for murder if their mistake at a diagnosis results in a patient's death. We try to make the survivors whole, but we recognize its not a criminal matter.

It plays into charging decisions for non-legal-duty issues pretty often. John Doe tries to pay for his groceries with a forged $100 bill. Did he know it was a forgery? Or did he believe it was real and passed it in good faith? You will note how often the phrase "knowingly or intentionally" occurs in IC code. Its a gross oversimplification to say "cops get away with it but they'll tell me ignorance is no excuse", and furthers the "us vs them" mentality.

Well put!

 

[churchmouse]

Even officers on here have bragged before that they are immune. If they faced charges it would certainly spark a change in the overall law enforcement bad attitude towards the citizens. Maybe the good cops would no longer have to cringe about rolling up with a hot head cop because they would be gone.

I have to go Bravo Sierra on this post as well. Not seen any bragging...a lot of defending and most of it on point but no bragging.