High Capacity AKs Illegal Without 6 American-made Parts?

[mk2ja]

So, today at my first flight lesson, my instructor is talking about this new "assault rifle" he just bought. For the life of me, I can't recall the name exactly, but it starts with a V and is an AK in .308. Sounds cool.

Anyway, he was talking about some federal law that makes it illegal to even insert "high capacity" magazines into an AK unless that AK has 6 American-made parts, which he suggested would be things like a folding stock or a rail system. Three of the parts could be the magazine itself, if the magazine is American-made, though, he said. Without either American-made magazines—which can count for up to 3 parts—or 6 American parts on the rifle itself, it is illegal to use anything more than 10-round magazines.

Failure to meet this specification is a felony, he said.

I certainly have never heard of this. I even asked him if it was a state specific law, but he claimed it was federal. A federal ten round limit on AKs that don't have at least six American made parts? How could this have been kept such a secret from me despite all my time on INGO?

Or was he just wrong? Anybody know?

 

[DragonGunner]

Magazines don't count as a part. This has been brought up on the AK's like the MAK 90 that need compliant parts if you modify them with a folding stock or such.....the magazine capacity doesn't make it illegal.....at least not in IN.

 

[mk2ja]

Magazines don't count as a part. This has been brought up on the AK's like the MAK 90 that need compliant parts if you modify them with a folding stock or such.....the magazine capacity doesn't make it illegal.....at least not in IN.

So there is at least some truth to what he was saying.

Know anything else about this law?

 

[Prometheus]

Magazines don't count as a part. This has been brought up on the AK's like the MAK 90 that need compliant parts if you modify them with a folding stock or such.....the magazine capacity doesn't make it illegal.....at least not in IN.

Federal law. Check out 922r.

I can't speak to exactly the firearm the guy is talking about (he may be talking about a VEPR).

In any case, when a magazine is inserted into a rifle, it DOES count as parts. In the case of an AK, 3 parts. Inserting 3 foreign made parts into a firearm can put it over the limit and magically change it from a US made weapon (and not subject to certain 922r provisions) back into a foreign made weapon.

This was a huge problem in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Today, most conversions take into account a foreign made magazine may be inserted and have enough US made parts that the additional 3 from the magazine don't matter.

It all depends on the AK and how many US parts are in it.

He may be correct, or he may not be.

Also keep it mind that US made parts don't matter. It's how many FOREIGN parts are on/in it that matter... in this case, 10 foreign parts is the magic number.

 

[mk2ja]

Federal law. Check out 922r.

I can't speak to exactly the firearm the guy is talking about (he may be talking about a VEPR).

In any case, when a magazine is inserted into a rifle, it DOES count as parts. In the case of an AK, 3 parts. Inserting 3 foreign made parts into a firearm can put it over the limit and magically change it from a US made weapon (and not subject to certain 922r provisions) back into a foreign made weapon.

This was a huge problem in the late 90's and early 2000's.

Today, most conversions take into account a foreign made magazine may be inserted and have enough US made parts that the additional 3 from the magazine don't matter.

It all depends on the AK and how many US parts are in it.

He may be correct, or he may not be.

Also keep it mind that US made parts don't matter. It's how many FOREIGN parts are on/in it that matter... in this case, 10 foreign parts is the magic number.

VEPR! Yes that was it!

Thanks for the reference. Good information. I had no idea about that.

 

[Tomfoolery]

Also it should be noted that 922r applies to a "manufacturer"? Now you can ask 20 different ATF agents the same question and get 20 different answers because they don't understand the law either. Simply put unless you are a licensed manufacturer it doesn't matter how many US parts are on your gun.

To back this theory

Q: How many civilian prosecutions have been made or attempted over 922r violations?
A: None.

 

[BogWalker]

One of the stupidest laws on the books. What are they going to do? Show up at your shooting range and ask to see your gas piston?

Anyways, 922r isn't hard to comply with. Get a US made trigger group, pistol grip, gas piston, and I believe you are good to go. Or is that short a part? Oh well, nobody will ever know.

 

[Prometheus]

Also it should be noted that 922r applies to a "manufacturer"? Now you can ask 20 different ATF agents the same question and get 20 different answers because they don't understand the law either. Simply put unless you are a[STRIKE] licensed[/STRIKE] manufacturer it doesn't matter how many US parts are on your gun.

FIFY.

While you are correct that it's the person who manufactures (assembles) it, it doesn't matter if they are licensed or not.

Technically, everytime you take the magazine in and out (under the OP's alleged situation) you'd be converting from a US to foreign made AK.

Also technically, it's the manufacture/conversion that is illegal, not possession hence:

Q: How many civilian prosecutions have been made or attempted over 922r violations?
A: None.

You are correct.

There have been zero, stand alone, 922r prosecutions.

Like many people say, and I agree, I wouldn't want to be the test case.

 

[paddling_man]

FIFY.


There have been zero, stand alone, 922r prosecutions.

Like many people say, and I agree, I wouldn't want to be the test case.

Like if you used it in a home defense situation and this then comes up at trial. Especially considering the climate over the last 45 days.

 

[KW730]

Good information that I had no idea about. Thanks for sharing guys.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Like if you used it in a home defense situation and this then comes up at trial. Especially considering the climate over the last 45 days.

If you were being tried on homicide, it would be in a local court enforcing state laws. You could be referred to the feds by the locals, even if they looked and knew what they were looking for, but absent something else to interest them they aren't going to waste time prosecuting you for something like that.

Separate issues, separate courts.

 

[Enkrypter]

Imported guns need to have a certain amount of US made parts. It's not to control the weapon's function, the law was designed to get people to buy US and not import so many weapons into the US. It was commonly seen in AK's imported from Romania, Yugo, China, and the likes. Since then, several US shops make them here and it's not an issue as much. It has a LOT to do with politics and not very much to do with firearms importing. Think of it as a way to get taxed even more and a way to create US jobs form the sale of foreign goods.

I personally don't mind the law. I still got a great working AK and I know some American machinist made a mediocre part to put on my gun. We should do this with more imported goods.

 

[bigg cheese]

This was interesting: Guy at this other forum wrote the ATF and got a response:

My ATF letter (and reply) on 922r clarifications - The FAL Files

 

[Alamo]

This is one explanation of 922r. There are quite a few on the internet, just search on "922r." Often there is on on the specific firearm, e.g. AK, SKS, etc.
TAPCO - Section 922r Compliance

 

[TheWabbit]

Since I build AKs, you bet I follow 922r. If you leave your imported weapon alone (like a SKS, AK, whatever) you don't have to worry about it. But if you alter it, you better know which parts are U.S. and which are not. I use Tapco FCG for 3 parts, 1 U.S. made receiver, 1 U.S. muzzle brake, and the floater U.S. (barrel, pistol grip, piston, or whatever else). Never rely on magazines for 922r. Those Circle 10 mags are far superior and you will use them one day and be out of 922r compliance.

If you need a calculator to figure it out, here you go:

Section 922r

BTW, it is 6 when you have a muzzle device. So a MAK-90 without a brake would only be 5.

 

[Clay]

Magazines don't count as a part. .

they absolutely do count as parts.

Magazine body (1)
Magazine floor plate (1)
Magazine follower (1)

3 parts total

 

[paddling_man]

Interesting letter. Thanks for posting it.

I dunno. It is a common occurrence to stack charges in any case being tried. If - God forbid - I'm ever in a situation of taking someone's life and must argue it was in self-defense, there will *not* be a possibility, however remote, that an ATF 922R violation could be stacked. I've had commie rifles in my safe. You can be sure that any one of them that was in a "useful role" - rather than just a range toy - was double and triple checked by me that I was certain 922r compliance was intact.

I'm not trying to troll or cause some internet panic... this stuff is up to an individual to decide. Myself, if there is even the most remote chance that the gun could be used in a defensive role, then I danged sure want to know it is legal. Even if it is the untested, possession-only, 922r compliance.

 

[JettaKnight]

...
Anyway, he was talking about some federal law that makes it illegal to even insert "high capacity" magazines into an AK unless that AK has 6 American-made parts,
...

Well, he's kind of correct. Which is the worst kind of correct.

There's no limit - min or max on domestic parts. What there is a limit on is the number of foreign parts - 10 maximum. The number your buddy had - 6 US, comes from an assumption that there's 16 total parts that count. And we all know the saying about assumptions. The number of parts can vary a bit based on the "features" (e.g. muzzle devices).

Magazines don't count as a part.

Actually, they count for three parts.

 

[38special]

Gunwiki: 922(r) Worksheet for AK-47 Builds

This is the best thing I've found to make sure you're 922r compliant. Just uncheck the boxes where you know you have US made stuff. It tells you whether you're compliant or not.

I just put together my AK and found that I am compliant unless I put in a foreign mag. I'll be changing the pistol grip and muzzle break to US made stuff so I'm compliant even with foreign mags.